Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[FCP Bob 1,321]

Meh. I probably fold preflop, but it's a pretty small mistake at worst, so long as you play well postflop. And you did here.And I have been tracker/HUD-less for like 2 months and probably playing the best I ever have. I'll get HEM with my new setups though and I'll probably look for advice on a layout.

I've been opening less p/f and folding more on every street than I have in the past. That coupled with running good have me enjoying some success so far this month. I'd love to get to the point where stats don't factor into my decision making process. At my level, there are a ton of players table hopping and not a lot of regulars. I give more credence to any notes I have on a player. Notes seem to be more situation appropriate. Then again, people play differently on different days so reads constantly change. I'm slowly learning to crawl.

I'm really glad you posted what you did about players playing differently on different days. It's so much more important to figure out how somebody is playing today than to rely on the stats from previous sessions in your database.I play one or two games at a time usually while watching something on TV so I don't use a heads up display. I do have pokertracker and I'll refer to it when I first get to a table or when a new player joins a game to see what information I have on somebody and I of course take some notes. At the midlimits there are often 2 types of players and a heads up display isn't that useful for either of them. The multitabling regular who I have played a lot with I'll already have a read on and the player who I have never played with I'll try and figure out their play based on how they're playing by reviewing hand histories as the game is going on.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

Question for Dink, I don't think you'll mind me asking it in public.I've noticed that even when you are playing in games that are the largest limits that you have played like 50/100 and 100/200 that you are often still 4 tabling with games at 15/30 at the same time. Do you think that it's wise to take some of your attention from a really big game by having much smaller games going at the same time even if your main attention is on the big game ?

[DinkDonk 1]

Question for Dink, I don't think you'll mind me asking it in public.I've noticed that even when you are playing in games that are the largest limits that you have played like 50/100 and 100/200 that you are often still 4 tabling with games at 15/30 at the same time. Do you think that it's wise to take some of your attention from a really big game by having much smaller games going at the same time even if your main attention is on the big game ?

Well, being used to 6 tabling, 4 tabling really isn't that difficult to do, even without a HUD. So now that I'm not at all nervous playing in those games, I feel like I can give all 4 games my full attention, and I honestly believe that I would rarely play different on any of them, even if I were only 2 tabling. I am still a bit green for 100/200, so about half the time I'm in that game, I'm only 2 tabling, but if I'm comfortable with my reads in them, 4 tabling doesn't give me much of a dropoff. However, my first few sessions I play at any new level, I will usually 1 table, or at most, 2 table. And also, if I'm playing in a game that is relatively big compared to my usual stakes and I am unfamiliar with a couple of the players, I will either devote extra attention to that game and/or cut down on my number of tables.So, if I am giving a bit up by 4 tabling, I don't think it's enough to negate my extra expected earn by putting in those hands at the lower level. And not only that, but I am more attuned to my mood, quicker to quit during downswings, and overall more careful about going off for a big number. I don't think that my approach is the best for most people, though. I'm very stable mood-wise, able to deal with swings, solidly rolled, and generally confident in my game. Also, I make sure to slow down, take a break from the multi-table grind, and 1 or 2 table every so often and completely focus on every decision during that time and I would encourage others to do so as well. It will do wonders for your learning progress.

[Chris-LFC 0]

Okay,i normally just lurk this thread and have done since i started to learn LHE about 2 months ago,i recently got into 6 max after going busto(mainly from having a downswing playing .50/1 FRLHE,8 tabling and playing in complete auto pilot,threw the rest of my roll into a NL cash game and lost) anyway i signed up to stox and have been watching a ton of 6max LHE vids,and i had $2 left in my account and i've ran it upto $42 in the last 2 days playin 5c/10c and 10c/20 6max LHE....so anyway im playing 25c/50c 6max LHE now,its out of my roll but i feel i have a big edge at these tables when the game is right,i only play 1 or 2 tables now so im fully focused and making notes all the time and using my HUD pretty well in defining players ranges,this hand came up earlier and i already know i probably made the minimum,just wondering how i could have played it differently to extract more value.........No reads on opponent,only had 9 hands on the guy and he had only played 1 which he limped on the button when he was 1st in the pot so i assumed from this he was a passive player...Full Tilt Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is UTG with J , A Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero callsThe 3 bet isn't really worrying,i decide to call rather than cap i,i could do both but i felt calling was better against an unknown,i'm putting him on atleast 88+ or broadway cards here...Flop: (7.4 SB) K , 3 , J (2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero callsi feel this is a good flop for my hand but it also hits him quite a lot,i think i prefer pealing here rather than check raising,mainly because i want him to fire again on the turn with hands like AQ 1010 etc and get some value from a check raise there,is this a good play??Turn: (4.7 BB) K (2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero callsI think i make a mistake here by calling,i think its a C/R every time here??River: (6.7 BB) 2 (2 players)Hero bets, 1 foldgreat river for me,the main reason i donked is because i felt he would check behind a mid PP and a lot of AQ A10 hands rather than taking a stab,so i hoped he would make a light call...i think i put myself in a bad spot here now looking at it? i think i overthink things at these limits though lolTotal pot: $3.35 (6.7 BB) | Rake: $0.15Main pot: $3.35 (6.7 BB) returned to HeroResults:Hero didn't show J , A (nothing).Outcome: Hero won $3.20so i kind of played it pretty bad so any help would be nice cheers

[checkymcfold 0]

chris, i've been taking that exact line a lot more often lately against tagfish that like to show down by checking the river behind. you just have to be able to bet/fold it, assuming your villain is laggy enough, and it tends to work best against people that will get wigged out and call with AQ.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

chris, i've been taking that exact line a lot more often lately against tagfish that like to show down by checking the river behind. you just have to be able to bet/fold it, assuming your villain is laggy enough, and it tends to work best against people that will get wigged out and call with AQ.

Nothing wrong with your passive play and you might even check the river to induce a bluff that might bet the river but not call your river bet.

[checkymcfold 0]

*laggy = taggy. sorry, shouldn't post before coffee, lol.

[Chris-LFC 0]

Nothing wrong with your passive play and you might even check the river to induce a bluff that might bet the river but not call your river bet.

Yeah i've been trying to induce a lot recently with a lot of 2nd pair type hands and it has been working quite well,i find at the stakes i play people just love to bluff so its very profitable, but i just had nothing on villain upto this point so i just lead into him and hoped he called light,obviously if he raises its a pretty tricky spot for me but i probably still call due to villain being an unknown, i've seen people make some crazy plays at these limits so far so you never know what they could be doing.thanks for the help,probably be posting some more hands soon lol gl at the tables

[Dirtydutch 8]

chris, i've been taking that exact line a lot more often lately against tagfish that like to show down by checking the river behind. you just have to be able to bet/fold it, assuming your villain is laggy enough, and it tends to work best against people that will get wigged out and call with AQ.

Yeah, He Shall Not Be Named and I were talking about this line a little last night. I've been using it a lot, lately.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

Lucky Bob's Feel Good Hand of the Day or how I'm lucky to outflop AA and have him overplay his hand.PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $20.00 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Lucky Bob is Button with Q , Q UTG raises, Lucky Bob 3-bets, 1 fold, BB caps, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsFlop: (12.5 SB) 6 , Q , 2 (3 players)BB bets, UTG raises, Lucky Bob 3-bets, BB calls, UTG caps, Lucky Bob calls, BB callsTurn: (12.25 BB) 3 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets, Lucky Bob raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsRiver: (21.25 BB) 4 (3 players)BB bets, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsTotal pot: $485 (24.25 BB) | Rake: $2Results:Lucky Bob had Q , Q (three of a kind, Queens).BB had A , A (one pair, Aces).UTG had 6 , 6 (three of a kind, sixes).Outcome: Lucky Bob won $483

[Chris-LFC 0]

Lucky Bob's Feel Good Hand of the Day or how I'm lucky to outflop AA and have him overplay his hand.PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $20.00 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Lucky Bob is Button with Q , Q UTG raises, Lucky Bob 3-bets, 1 fold, BB caps, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsFlop: (12.5 SB) 6 , Q , 2 (3 players)BB bets, UTG raises, Lucky Bob 3-bets, BB calls, UTG caps, Lucky Bob calls, BB callsTurn: (12.25 BB) 3 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets, Lucky Bob raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsRiver: (21.25 BB) 4 (3 players)BB bets, UTG calls, Lucky Bob callsTotal pot: $485 (24.25 BB) | Rake: $2Results:Lucky Bob had Q , Q (three of a kind, Queens).BB had A , A (one pair, Aces).UTG had 6 , 6 (three of a kind, sixes).Outcome: Lucky Bob won $483

niiiice,turn card kinda killed the action a lil but,but still niiiice lol.....is it me or is this thread dying out a lil bit is it because of the new "secret forum" you guys have?

[Chris-LFC 0]

LOL this isnt a great hand or anything...well it was kinda good for me but i just thought it was a loltastic hand of how badly some people play at these lower limits :)Full Tilt Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is MP with A, 7Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB callsFlop: (8 SB) J, 6, 7(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsTurn: (6 BB) A(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsRiver: (10 BB) 3(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsTotal pot: $2.80 (14 BB) | Rake: $0.14Main pot: $2.80 (14 BB) between CO, SB, BB and Hero, won by HeroResults:SB had 7, K (one pair, sevens).BB had Q, J (one pair, Jacks).Hero had A, 7 (two pair, Aces and sevens).CO had J, 10 (one pair, Jacks).Outcome: Hero won $2.66

[bbgun 0]

LOL this isnt a great hand or anything...well it was kinda good for me but i just thought it was a loltastic hand of how badly some people play at these lower limits :)Full Tilt Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is MP with A, 7Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB callsFlop: (8 SB) J, 6, 7(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsTurn: (6 BB) A(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsRiver: (10 BB) 3(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB callsTotal pot: $2.80 (14 BB) | Rake: $0.14Main pot: $2.80 (14 BB) between CO, SB, BB and Hero, won by HeroResults:SB had 7, K (one pair, sevens).BB had Q, J (one pair, Jacks).Hero had A, 7 (two pair, Aces and sevens).CO had J, 10 (one pair, Jacks).Outcome: Hero won $2.66

Cooler...hand played itself.

[Chris-LFC 0]

Cooler...hand played itself.

yeah i just find it funny how the guy with JQ didnt raise and how the guy with top pair and the flush draw isnt jamming the flop lol

[DinkDonk 1]

So my girlfriend is on spring break and we're spending it at her parents' house (her choice, something about missing her family, blahblahblah) so I'm playing on their wireless. 2 Big fish were sitting in a 100/200 game and the internet has been solid for 2 days straight so I couldn't resist. The stress from this hand took 3 years off my life. (Unconverted to show disconnect) In the time I was disconnected, I had to throw on some underwear, sprint downstairs into a room with both my gf's sister and mother, reset the internet, and sprint back up. I made it was about 3 seconds to spare. River check is terribad given the read I have now, but I was soooo effing stressed I couldn't think well. I quit on my next BB.PokerStars Game #25948183629: Hold'em Limit ($100/$200) - 2009/03/14 10:07:02 ETTable 'Icarion' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: redhookesb ($7309 in chips)Seat 3: Kenny855 ($5294.50 in chips)Seat 4: DooshDotCom ($4000 in chips)Seat 5: Superflous14 ($3833 in chips)Seat 6: thaaj2004 ($9857 in chips)Kenny855: posts small blind $50DooshDotCom: posts big blind $100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Kenny855 [Ac 7c]Superflous14: raises $100 to $200thaaj2004: foldsredhookesb: foldsKenny855: raises $100 to $300DooshDotCom: calls $200Superflous14: calls $100*** FLOP *** [5c 7d 2c]Kenny855: bets $100DooshDotCom: raises $100 to $200Superflous14: calls $200Kenny855: raises $100 to $300DooshDotCom: calls $100Superflous14: calls $100*** TURN *** [5c 7d 2c] [2h]Kenny855 is disconnectedKenny855 has timed out while disconnectedKenny855: checksDooshDotCom: bets $200Superflous14: calls $200Kenny855 is connectedKenny855: raises $200 to $400DooshDotCom: foldsSuperflous14: calls $200*** RIVER *** [5c 7d 2c 2h] [6d]Kenny855: checksSuperflous14: checks*** SHOW DOWN ***Kenny855: shows [Ac 7c] (two pair, Sevens and Deuces)Superflous14: mucks handKenny855 collected $2798 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $2800 | Rake $2Board [5c 7d 2c 2h 6d]Seat 1: redhookesb (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Kenny855 (small blind) showed [Ac 7c] and won ($2798) with two pair, Sevens and DeucesSeat 4: DooshDotCom (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: Superflous14 mucked [Ah Jh]Seat 6: thaaj2004 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[dreamcrusher28 0]

All I learned here is that apparently you play naked....at your girlfriends parents house!!I knew I was doing something wrong.

[DinkDonk 1]

All I learned here is that apparently you play naked....at your girlfriends parents house!!I knew I was doing something wrong.

Heh. I air dry after showers and was playing in bed.

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

Heh. I air dry after showers and was playing in bed.

why did you check the river?

[DinkDonk 1]

why did you check the river?

"River check is terribad given the read I have now, but I was soooo effing stressed I couldn't think well." (from my OP)Ummm, I guess I thought 1. He'd bluff a lot 2. That card hits some of his hands and also makes him less likely to call when I'm ahead and 3. I really don't know, it was bad. I was out of breath, stressed, and not thinking. Later on, villain c/c 3 streets on a 33457r board with JTo. Made me feel so so bad about my check here.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

"River check is terribad given the read I have now, but I was soooo effing stressed I couldn't think well." (from my OP)Ummm, I guess I thought 1. He'd bluff a lot 2. That card hits some of his hands and also makes him less likely to call when I'm ahead and 3. I really don't know, it was bad. I was out of breath, stressed, and not thinking. Later on, villain c/c 3 streets on a 33457r board with JTo. Made me feel so so bad about my check here.

My wireless internet is often balky and there are a lot of times where I've been disconnected for a minute and then get reconnected and make a really quick decision and in those situations it's usually calling or checking where a bet or raise would have been better.

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

"River check is terribad given the read I have now, but I was soooo effing stressed I couldn't think well." (from my OP)Ummm, I guess I thought 1. He'd bluff a lot 2. That card hits some of his hands and also makes him less likely to call when I'm ahead and 3. I really don't know, it was bad. I was out of breath, stressed, and not thinking. Later on, villain c/c 3 streets on a 33457r board with JTo. Made me feel so so bad about my check here.

oh, I skipped over that "River check is terribad", when I was reading it the first time. My apologies

[TheCinciKid 0]

So my girlfriend is on spring break and we're spending it at her parents' house (her choice, something about missing her family, blahblahblah) so I'm playing on their wireless. 2 Big fish were sitting in a 100/200 game and the internet has been solid for 2 days straight so I couldn't resist. The stress from this hand took 3 years off my life. (Unconverted to show disconnect) In the time I was disconnected, I had to throw on some underwear, sprint downstairs into a room with both my gf's sister and mother, reset the internet, and sprint back up. I made it was about 3 seconds to spare. River check is terribad given the read I have now, but I was soooo effing stressed I couldn't think well. I quit on my next BB.PokerStars Game #25948183629: Hold'em Limit ($100/$200) - 2009/03/14 10:07:02 ETTable 'Icarion' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: redhookesb ($7309 in chips)Seat 3: Kenny855 ($5294.50 in chips)Seat 4: DooshDotCom ($4000 in chips)Seat 5: Superflous14 ($3833 in chips)Seat 6: thaaj2004 ($9857 in chips)Kenny855: posts small blind $50DooshDotCom: posts big blind $100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Kenny855 [Ac 7c]Superflous14: raises $100 to $200thaaj2004: foldsredhookesb: foldsKenny855: raises $100 to $300DooshDotCom: calls $200Superflous14: calls $100*** FLOP *** [5c 7d 2c]Kenny855: bets $100DooshDotCom: raises $100 to $200Superflous14: calls $200Kenny855: raises $100 to $300DooshDotCom: calls $100Superflous14: calls $100*** TURN *** [5c 7d 2c] [2h]Kenny855 is disconnectedKenny855 has timed out while disconnectedKenny855: checksDooshDotCom: bets $200Superflous14: calls $200Kenny855 is connectedKenny855: raises $200 to $400DooshDotCom: foldsSuperflous14: calls $200*** RIVER *** [5c 7d 2c 2h] [6d]Kenny855: checksSuperflous14: checks*** SHOW DOWN ***Kenny855: shows [Ac 7c] (two pair, Sevens and Deuces)Superflous14: mucks handKenny855 collected $2798 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $2800 | Rake $2Board [5c 7d 2c 2h 6d]Seat 1: redhookesb (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Kenny855 (small blind) showed [Ac 7c] and won ($2798) with two pair, Sevens and DeucesSeat 4: DooshDotCom (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: Superflous14 mucked [Ah Jh]Seat 6: thaaj2004 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I'm guessing these games are more aggressive overall than what I'm used to, but I've never been in a game where 3-betting A7s seemed like a good idea. Can you talk about that?

[DinkDonk 1]

I'm guessing these games are more aggressive overall than what I'm used to, but I've never been in a game where 3-betting A7s seemed like a good idea. Can you talk about that?

PFR was a huge fish with a huge range. The end.

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

I'm guessing these games are more aggressive overall than what I'm used to, but I've never been in a game where 3-betting A7s seemed like a good idea. Can you talk about that?

Really? You've never had a villan that was like 65/35-50 or something? Because I sure have and I three bet them with ace high in position or to push out the BB all day long. I was talking to Dutch about this the other day, when playing one of my favorite maniacs. I had Ace high in the cutoff ( like ace 3 or something). The Player to my immediate right was something like an 80/40 or something absurd. Had he raised, I would have three bet. But he made a ( very rare) fold... so, rather than even raising, I mucked. Because the blinds were very loose, there wasn't much steal value, and I also wanted to be able to continue to 3 bet this guy reasonably light, and get the blinds out in the future.. In order to do that, I wanted to avoid having a maniac image as well, and getting them cold calling me light. So I just gave up what was probably a little value, in order to be able to keep 3-betting the villain light. It's a rare but beautiful situation for me, where my 3 betting range is actually wider than my raising range.

[TheCinciKid 0]

PFR was a huge fish with a huge range. The end.

Really? You've never had a villan that was like 65/35-50 or something? Because I sure have and I three bet them with ace high in position or to push out the BB all day long. I was talking to Dutch about this the other day, when playing one of my favorite maniacs. I had Ace high in the cutoff ( like ace 3 or something). The Player to my immediate right was something like an 80/40 or something absurd. Had he raised, I would have three bet. But he made a ( very rare) fold... so, rather than even raising, I mucked. Because the blinds were very loose, there wasn't much steal value, and I also wanted to be able to continue to 3 bet this guy reasonably light, and get the blinds out in the future.. In order to do that, I wanted to avoid having a maniac image as well, and getting them cold calling me light. So I just gave up what was probably a little value, in order to be able to keep 3-betting the villain light. It's a rare but beautiful situation for me, where my 3 betting range is actually wider than my raising range.

Duh. Okay, I feel like an idiot. I haven't had tracking software or stats since my hard drive crashed in like November b/c I'm too cheap to buy tracking software for the super low stakes games I've been playing, but back in the day I probably did have situations like you describe. Though, I'm not sure I as ever very successful with them, but that's neither here nor there.