Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[Flushgarden 0]

wat?Do you even know why you'd even consider capping?Or do you just play like "zomg fd and gutshot zomg raise mash buttons!!1"?Just asking.

Dude you need to find a girl to give you a blowjob or get laid or something. Or smoke a blunt...or both. Anyway...we might at that moment already be ahead (not likely but possible, so it should be considered)...we have over cards that could be outs. That plus the FD and GS.We can mash buttons now?

[wsox8 10]

+$305 today.My first + day online in a week. So crazy, I win 14 days in a row, then I lose 7 days in a row (I did play live twice in the last week and did well). The losing started when I cashed out $2500. I think subconsciously I was pressing too hard to get it back. I'm not going to blame it all on running bad, even though it was a least a little bit of the reason, but I was definitely not playing optimally a lot of the time. It just felt like a lot of the time I just didn't have any idea of where I was at in a hand, and I made more than my share of mistakes.Trying not to be results oriented, but I feel good about how I played today. I've dropped down and I'm not going to be playing 3/6 for a little bit.One question on a hand...PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with , . UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: (8.50 SB) , , (4 players)BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, CO calls, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, CO calls.Turn: (8.75 BB) (3 players)UTG bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.Should I be capping this turn?

I do not cap this turn. noooooo way especially not with UTG and CO playing like they have big hands.. and assuming all our 12 outs are still live.***Warning***I suck.

[DinkDonk 1]

Dude you need to find a girl to give you a blowjob or get laid or something. Or smoke a blunt...or both. Anyway...we might at that moment already be ahead (not likely but possible, so it should be considered)...we have over cards that could be outs. That plus the FD and GS.We can mash buttons now?

Zach was a bit harsh, but no don't cap. There is absolutely 0 fold equity, and with this action our overcards are very highly discounted as outs and count as maybe 1-1.5 outs total. We have 12 clean outs to the nuts, so obviously we're never folding, but not all diamonds have to be live and not all Kings have to be live either. We do not have enough equity to cap. Just call. In the cases that we do hit, I think capping will cut down on our river implied odds, as it will make people less likely to bet their 2 pair/overpair type hands. All things considered, a call is much more profitable than a cap in this spot.

[Zach6668 513]

Dude you need to find a girl to give you a blowjob or get laid or something. Or smoke a blunt...or both. Anyway...we might at that moment already be ahead (not likely but possible, so it should be considered)...we have over cards that could be outs. That plus the FD and GS.We can mash buttons now?

You are high out of your mind if you think you're ahead here EVER.I'm asking you a serious question, wondering if you want to get better at this game.Do you understand why we would consider capping with ace high? Do you know what conditions we'd want to cap here? I'm seriously asking.

[checkymcfold 0]

flushgarden, the only reasons you'd even want to raise the turn is if:1. your villain might find a way to get away from a ten if you get aggressive, but that's unlikely due to the flop 3bet, imo.2. you are raising for a free showdown if you think you are occasionally good with ace queen high (there is no way this is true here, as even AJ overs just beat you) and to get more value if you hit.3. you're pushing a hand for metagame reasons.as to 1, i don't think you have any fold equity here if he 3bets the flop.as to 2, you're just never good here, and if he 3bet the flop, you get 3bet on the turn faaaar too often to really even consider raising, much less capping.as to 3, you have to give yourself about 25% equity here based on the insane action. this isn't anywhere close to enough to make this a spot to put in more bets to get paid later. as a general rule, only get out of line with no FE in order to get more action if you're pretty sure you're looking at 40% equity or better. def aren't here.

[Flushgarden 0]

You are high out of your mind if you think you're ahead here EVER.I'm asking you a serious question, wondering if you want to get better at this game.Do you understand why we would consider capping with ace high? Do you know what conditions we'd want to cap here? I'm seriously asking.

If you read the hand history you will see that I did indeed just call the 3bet, which according to you, the greatest LHE player in the history of the world, was the correct move. I wanted to explore the hand to make sure I wasn't missing anything. By merely posting the hand I'm admitting that I'm not 100% sure of the best play, and wanted the thoughts of others. Part of the reason I posted it was because you criticized me for not being more aggressive with a draw in a previous hand. Of course its not exactly the same hand.Thank you very much for the input Wsox, Dink and Checky, you've helped me clarify in my mind why that line was the best.

[Zach6668 513]

I wanted to explore the hand to make sure I wasn't missing anything. If you read the hand history you will see that I did indeed just call the 3bet, which according to you, the greatest LHE player in the history of the world, was the correct move.Thank you very much for the input Wsox, Dink and Checky, you've helped me understand why that line was the best.

You continue to not answer my questions.If you would have just taken the time to answer the questions I ask, instead of getting all pissy and offended, you'd have helped yourself find the correct answer AND helped with the correct thought process. It's ok, just continue to ignore me, and I'll stop trying to give out advice to you.

[Flushgarden 0]

You continue to not answer my questions.If you would have just taken the time to answer the questions I ask, instead of getting all pissy and offended, you'd have helped yourself find the correct answer AND helped with the correct thought process. It's ok, just continue to ignore me, and I'll stop trying to give out advice to you.

We'd want to cap if we have enough outs to make us a favorite to win the hand. We'd want to cap if we can get somebody to lay down a better hand. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something. If I am please tell me.

[serge 904]

god LHE is frustrating sometimes, lol.there's one guy at my table who is running so hilariously well it's amazing. he caps pretty much any piece on every street, and (fortunately he's only gotten me once) he's rivered a winner in 10BB pots about 30 times in his first 100 hands. i can only imagine how tilty the other donkeys are.i'm just getting eaten alive by the 80/0/0.3 guy, lol.

sorry for my ignorance..can you please explain what 80/0/0.3 means??I have FINALLY got pokertracker running, is this one of the numbers it tracks..thanksPS LHE is the best

[DinkDonk 1]

sorry for my ignorance..can you please explain what 80/0/0.3 means??I have FINALLY got pokertracker running, is this one of the numbers it tracks..thanksPS LHE is the best

80- is the percentage of hands where he voluntarily puts money in preflop (VP$IP)0- is the percentage of hands he raises preflop (PFR).3 is his post flop aggression factor (AF). A normal AF in 6 max games is like 2. Mine is 2.2, so .3 is ridiculously passive.Sooooooo, the guy plays nearly every hand, raises 0 and plays laughably passive after the flop. In summation these stats are of one of the biggest fish ever. (obv he still owns Checky though)

[xzanos 0]

.3 is his post flop aggression factor (AF). A normal AF in 6 max games is like 2. Mine is 2.2, so .3 is ridiculously passive.

FWIW, AF is figured by adding the number of times that you bet or raise and dividing that total by the number of times you call a bet.

(obv he still owns Checky though)

Who doesn't?

[serge 904]

80- is the percentage of hands where he voluntarily puts money in preflop (VP$IP)0- is the percentage of hands he raises preflop (PFR).3 is his post flop aggression factor (AF). A normal AF in 6 max games is like 2. Mine is 2.2, so .3 is ridiculously passive.Sooooooo, the guy plays nearly every hand, raises 0 and plays laughably passive after the flop. In summation these stats are of one of the biggest fish ever. (obv he still owns Checky though)

thanks..now it makes sense..and wow those are some sick stats...

[DinkDonk 1]

thanks..now it makes sense..and wow those are some sick stats...

No problem. Welcome to the LHE challenge thread, hopefully you'll start posting here more often. And yes, those stats are pretty awesome.

[Zach6668 513]

We'd want to cap if we have enough outs to make us a favorite to win the hand. We'd want to cap if we can get somebody to lay down a better hand. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something. If I am please tell me.

No, that's right. You'd want to have 50%+ equity in an HU pot (pot equity plus fold equity), in order to put more money in. In a 3 way pot, like this, we'd of course need better than 33% equity to jam.Sure, we do have a lot of outs, but the action dictates that we're up against strong hands, very often. However, we do have exactly 10 clean outs (7 non-board-pairing diamonds, 3 Kings), and you know, some partial outs for the Td and 2d, but probably no outs for our A or Q. Even in the best case scenario, we're like 22% or so, so at a pretty clear disadvantage.The basic idea, which is true for most LHE drawing hands, is that our equity decreases a TON going from the flop to the turn. This often makes it correct to jam the flop, but usually makes the turn a massive spew, if we were to jam.Now, the final thing, about your laying down a better hand. That applies often, but generally, if someone has put in 3 bets, and we essentially have the nut no pair, they won't fold for a cap, or river bet. Our ace is literally never ahead here, and our fold equity in a 3-way pot with this much action is basically exactly zero.

[xzanos 0]

Button had just sat in this round, with like 125bb's. I usually take this to indicate a sub-par player.Limit Holdem Ring game6 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button caps, Hero calls.Flop: :D (9.5SB, 2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.Turn: (5.75BB, 2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.River: (13.75BB, 2 players)Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 21.75BB

[checkymcfold 0]

Button had just sat in this round, with like 125bb's. I usually take this to indicate a sub-par player.Limit Holdem Ring game6 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button caps, Hero calls.Flop: :D (9.5SB, 2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.Turn: (5.75BB, 2 players)Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls.River: (13.75BB, 2 players)Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 21.75BB

i like it with no info other than the stack size in a blind battle. i don't think he puts you on a boat here, like, ever. did you lose to KK, K8, or 88, since you're posting? :)also, **** you guys, i totally can beat 80/0/0.3s. i promise.

[drcossack 0]

Who doesn't?

*raises hand*That was only in one Neg-O though. The donk.

[xzanos 0]

I feel like I've played well so far this month, but my first couple sessions have been crappy. I think I've found a couple of pretty obvious leaks and I'm working on plugging them.

[Zach6668 513]

xzanos, what limits are you playing? 6, full, hu? site? if you don't mind.

[Zach6668 513]

I have no idea how this happened. I thought I was running like shit all day, and was sorta close to tilty, not really tilty, but just kinda snappy, lol.Somehow I made almost $1k after incentives.

[Zach6668 513]

So, here's me crushing souls. Well, one soul. This same guy who kept thinking he could bluff me off of every pot.Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with Hero raises, BB calls.Flop: (4SB, 2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.Turn: (4BB, 2 players)BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: 6BBAbsolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with Hero raises, BB calls.Flop: :icon_clap: (4SB, 2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.Turn: (2BB, 2 players)BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB folds.Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: 8BBAbsolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with :icon_clap: SB raises, Hero calls.Flop: (4SB, 2 players)Hero checks, SB bets, Hero calls.Turn: (3BB, 2 players)Hero checks, SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB folds.Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: 9BBAbsolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $5/$102 playersConverterPre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with Hero raises, BB calls.Flop: :icon_clap: (4SB, 2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.Turn: (4BB, 2 players)BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: 6BB

[DinkDonk 1]

Zach is a sicko.

[Flushgarden 0]

No, that's right. You'd want to have 50%+ equity in an HU pot (pot equity plus fold equity), in order to put more money in. In a 3 way pot, like this, we'd of course need better than 33% equity to jam.Sure, we do have a lot of outs, but the action dictates that we're up against strong hands, very often. However, we do have exactly 10 clean outs (7 non-board-pairing diamonds, 3 Kings), and you know, some partial outs for the Td and 2d, but probably no outs for our A or Q. Even in the best case scenario, we're like 22% or so, so at a pretty clear disadvantage.The basic idea, which is true for most LHE drawing hands, is that our equity decreases a TON going from the flop to the turn. This often makes it correct to jam the flop, but usually makes the turn a massive spew, if we were to jam.Now, the final thing, about your laying down a better hand. That applies often, but generally, if someone has put in 3 bets, and we essentially have the nut no pair, they won't fold for a cap, or river bet. Our ace is literally never ahead here, and our fold equity in a 3-way pot with this much action is basically exactly zero.

Thats for simplifying it. I haven't always done the exact math while in a hand...just make my best guess as to how many outs I might have and kinda play by feel. I just read them both as being weak on the flop, as the oop guy donkbet and the in position guy was passive. I felt they were both either on a draw or had a weak one pair. If they were very strong I think their actions would have been the opposite. The J definitely gave one of them a much better hand though.How many outs do you think we have on the turn in this hand? I'm thinking I probably made a small mistake? (plus 2nd straightflush in 4 days, after only having like 2 in my life previously)PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) , , (5 players)Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO folds.Turn: (3.50 BB) (2 players)Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.River: (9.50 BB) (2 players)Hero bets, UTG calls.Final Pot: 11.50 BBHero has Td 8d (straight flush, ten high). UTG mucked Qc TcOutcome: Hero wins 11.50 BB.

[RabidTortuga 0]

Well, there's no thinking since you posted results. 20 outs, any 5, 8, 9, diamond.

[Zach6668 513]

Well, this one is a lot different, because it'd be pretty easy for us to have the best hand here, so you won't need your outs to equal the portion of the money you're putting into the pot.But, even assuming our T isn't good, for example, if he has QT like he does, we've got 40% equity. However, his range is bigger, so we don't necessarily need the full 50% to jam here, because we don't just have a draw, we have a hand which will win at showdown UI some portion of the time. I think you played this hand very well.