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Lhe Challenge(?) Thread


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Preflop: Hero is Button with 8spade.gif, Kspade.gif1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero callsFlop: (6.5 SB) 6diamond.gif, Qheart.gif, Qspade.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsTurn: (4.25 BB) 6heart.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsRiver: (6.25 BB) 4spade.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsResults:Hero had 8spade.gif, Kspade.gif (one pair, Queens).BB had 2club.gif, 7club.gif (one pair, Queens).Don't be bringing that weak shit into my house.

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Yeah the games aren't too bad tonight.Preflop: Hero is BB with 7club.gif, 8diamond.gif4 folds, SB raises, Hero callsFlop: (4 SB) 2heart.gif, 7diamond.gif, 3club.gif(2 players)SB bets, Hero callsTurn: (3 BB) 4club.gif(2 players)SB bets, Hero callsRiver: (5 BB) 7spade.gif(2 players)SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB callsTotal pot: 13 BBResults:SB mucked Aheart.gif, Kspade.gif (one pair, sevens).Hero had 7club.gif, 8diamond.gif (three of a kind, sevens).

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Preflop: Hero is Button with 8spade.gif, Kspade.gif1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero callsFlop: (6.5 SB) 6diamond.gif, Qheart.gif, Qspade.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsTurn: (4.25 BB) 6heart.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsRiver: (6.25 BB) 4spade.gif(2 players)BB bets, Hero callsResults:Hero had 8spade.gif, Kspade.gif (one pair, Queens).BB had 2club.gif, 7club.gif (one pair, Queens).Don't be bringing that weak shit into my house.
Is this standard? I seem to have trouble (especially in 3 bet pots) in making calls like this. I geneally find the times that I do call down i'm against ace high or a PP and just feel tarded making a really bad hero call. I realise that in this case it's a double paired board so he's either got the monster or nothing, so how do you determine when to be a station or just dump your hand?
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Is this standard? I seem to have trouble (especially in 3 bet pots) in making calls like this. I geneally find the times that I do call down i'm against ace high or a PP and just feel tarded making a really bad hero call. I realise that in this case it's a double paired board so he's either got the monster or nothing, so how do you determine when to be a station or just dump your hand?
I tend to make more hero call-downs than most people, and I probably make too many of them, but this was a player read and it's totally standard vs. a 70/60/4 who's totally on tilt and has barreled off like 100%. He basically has a random hand here.Vs. an average player on this board, I dump on the turn. Reading boards and ranges to determine when to barrel or call down with weak hands are pretty similar skillsets, and probably two of the toughest/most important. I'm not really sure what advise to give, other than that you have to always be thinking about the player's range and your equity against it.
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totally standard vs. a 70/60/4 who's totally on tilt and has barreled off like 100%.
Heh. I only got HEM about a week ago, so I'm still learning, but that makes me lol.Ty for the other advice too.
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No problem. I hope it wasn't horrible advice or something.
Not at all, heh.
you have to always be thinking about the player's range and your equity against it.
This is something I know I need to work on a lot. I have trouble doing so because I see so many wtf things at .5/1 LHE that its kinda hard to narrow down sometimes.
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This is something I know I need to work on a lot. I have trouble doing so because I see so many wtf things at .5/1 LHE that its kinda hard to narrow down sometimes.
Well, a wide range is still a range. In this case I was giving the guy like 80% of distributions, against which I'm probably better than 50%. Wider ranges are higher variance, but in a lot of ways are easier to play against in these spots. Also at .5/1 there's such player turnover that it's hard to have a ton of people whose tendencies are particularly well-known to you. In a lot of cases (at any limit) you just have to guess what the average range for that type of player would be, and go with it. But in all honesty, with a little experience, you can pick up a lot more than you think pretty quickly just by paying attention.
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Nice call with K high.

Post more hands, GWCGCWWGCGCGWWGCW. I don't understand what is wrong with your game that you're not a winner.
Dutch, you can just call me [insert acronym for GWCGWC here/]The problem with posting hands is that I have real trouble communicating my thoughts in the moment (or anytime ie: the b/f line from whenever that was) and my hh's always seem out of context of the game flow. I have several problems with my game in general. I tend to get out of control in pots where I perceive a players actions to mean one thing but it turns out to be pretty much the opposite, waaaaaay too often. I pay off too much with ace high vs the wrong players. When I lose control, spew seems to be my default line. That's a tough way to make a profit in this game. There's so much more work to do and I really need to step down a limit but it's been hard for me to accept. At my limit, there are some really bad players that don't have a chance in hell of keeping their money. There's quite a few decent/good/really good players who absolutely give me fits. Oh, and sometimes the most retarded shit possible happens. Here's where I value own myself so hard. When I bet, I was 99.999999% 100mutha****in% sure I had the best hand. villain is 40/27/2.08, c/r'd or raised most flops in a somewhat honest manner. He always, previous to this hand, bet when checked to in a raised pot. PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is UTG with J :club:, J :5cHero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button callsFlop: (9.5 SB) K :3h, Q :ts, Q :qh(2 players)Hero bets, Button callsTurn: (5.75 BB) 3 :D(2 players)Hero checks, Button checksI was checking with the intention of calling down. River: (5.75 BB) 9 :jh(2 players)Hero bets, Button callsTotal pot: $31 (7.75 BB) | Rake: $1Results:Button had 10 :D, K :D (two pair, Kings and Queens).Hero had J :4h, J :D (two pair, Queens and Jacks).Outcome: Button won $30
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The problem with posting hands is that I have real trouble communicating my thoughts in the moment (or anytime ie: the b/f line from whenever that was) and my hh's always seem out of context of the game flow. I have several problems with my game in general. I tend to get out of control in pots where I perceive a players actions to mean one thing but it turns out to be pretty much the opposite, waaaaaay too often. I pay off too much with ace high vs the wrong players. When I lose control, spew seems to be my default line. That's a tough way to make a profit in this game. There's so much more work to do and I really need to step down a limit but it's been hard for me to accept. At my limit, there are some really bad players that don't have a chance in hell of keeping their money. There's quite a few decent/good/really good players who absolutely give me fits. Oh, and sometimes the most retarded shit possible happens.
C/c lines (or calling down in pos) are becoming such a huge part of my game, now. I'm still toying with it, but I think I've gotten pretty good about employing them. Just post a whole mess of call-downs or hands you think could be, and I'll (and hopefully some other players will) try to go over them. Also, I would assume I have book on most of the players I would consider good at that level, so PM me any names and I'll tell you what I know. Also, moving down for a while can't be bad.
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Here's where I value own myself so hard. When I bet, I was 99.999999% 100mutha****in% sure I had the best hand. villain is 40/27/2.08, c/r'd or raised most flops in a somewhat honest manner. He always, previous to this hand, bet when checked to in a raised pot. PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is UTG with J :club:, J :5cHero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button callsFlop: (9.5 SB) K :3h, Q :ts, Q :qh(2 players)Hero bets, Button callsTurn: (5.75 BB) 3 :D(2 players)Hero checks, Button checksI was checking with the intention of calling down. River: (5.75 BB) 9 :jh(2 players)Hero bets, Button callsTotal pot: $31 (7.75 BB) | Rake: $1Results:Button had 10 :D, K :D (two pair, Kings and Queens).Hero had J :4h, J :D (two pair, Queens and Jacks).Outcome: Button won $30
My first inclination is that you played the hand well, and so did he.A couple of things hit me as I tried to figure out what you could have done differently, or for that matter how the button could play the hand better.Is the button one to wait for the turn to raise a Q here? You say he raised flops in a more or less straightforward manner, which indicated he would likely raise a Q here on the flop. If true and we exclude hands that hold a Q from his range, we're left with AK, AJ, AT, KJ, KT, TT, and many suited spade combos - these hands he could reasonably peel the flop with AND have 3-bet preflop. There's a small chance we're looking at KK, KQ or JJ, but if he'd raise a Q on the flop, he raise KK and KQ at least some of the time, right?Now he checks behind on the turn. We can eliminate the monsters for sure, which leaves us with the paired K's and the draws. When we bet the river, what can we expect to be called by? Well, he's definitely calling us with Kings, Jacks, probably Tens, and folding all his missed draws. The draws out number the hands that call us and we beat, so by betting we took away any chance of getting value from a bluff, and only gained value from TT and any hand that happened to pair the 9 on the river.There's also the Cap preflop oop when you know it's going to be heads up. There's an extended discussion somewhere in here if it wasn't edited out about the concept of flat calling every time you're 3-bet and oop and the pot will be HU, and then c/r wither the flop or the turn depending on a number of things. Basically, by just calling preflop against typical players, you're giving them license to c-bet the flop 100% of the time, and by c/r-ing most flops, your gaining tons of informatin about your opponents range while keeping yours pretty wide.Sorry if that was long, but I thought it through as I typed. Is his 3-betting range much wider, and is he peeling more than I think on the flop?
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I'm just getting back into poker after taking a long time off, so I decided to try playing limit again. I'm quite rusty so I figured I would post some hands that I had trouble with. I'm sure a lot of these will be pretty standard, but it has been a long time since I've played limit so I have forgotten a lot and need a lot of help. It probably doesn't matter since I only play .5/1, but we can assume that I have the image of tight and aggressive for all of these hands.This first hand seems pretty standard, but I feel like I have trouble playing the turn on hands like this. This was my first hand at the table, so no information on the villain.Dealt to Hero [J :club: J :diamond: ] 1 fold, villain raises, 6 folds, hero 3 bets, villain caps, hero calls*** FLOP *** (8.5SB) [9 :diamond: 4 :spade: A :heart: ]hero bets, villain calls*** TURN *** (5.25BB) [9 :diamond: 4 :spade: A :heart: ] [6 :spade: ]hero checks, villain checks*** RIVER *** (5.25BB) [9 :diamond: 4 :spade: A :heart: ] [6 :spade: ] [2 :club: ]hero bets, villain raises, hero calls*** SHOW DOWN ***

Villain- Shows [K :heart: 10 :club: ] (ace high) Hero- Shows [J :club: J :diamond: ] (One pair, jacks) Hero Collects $8.30 from main pot

Again on this next hand I don't really know what I should be doing on the turn. I bet out thinking that I still had the best hand, but when he raised I wasn't sure. Should I just call down once I get raised here? Through 80 hands villain is 54/6/.8Dealt to Hero [8 :club: 8 :diamond: ] 1 fold, villain raises, hero calls, 1 fold, button calls, bb calls*** FLOP *** (8.5SB) [J :club: 3 :heart: 2 :spade: ]bb checks, villain bets, hero raises, 2 folds, villain calls*** TURN *** (6.25BB) [J :club: 3 :heart: 2 :spade: ] [K :heart: ]villain checks, hero bets, villain raises, hero calls*** RIVER *** (10.25BB) [J :club: 3 :heart: 2 :spade: ] [K :heart: ] [6 :heart: ]villain bets, hero calls*** SHOW DOWN ***

Villain - Shows [A :club: 10 :club: ] (ace high) Hero- Shows [8 :club: 8 :diamond: ] (One pair, eights) hero Collects $11.15 from main pot

On this next hand, on the flop I felt that I could get in a check raise to hopefully bring along the BB. The turn was nothing special. My issue with this hand is the river. My two pair has just been counterfeited, but can I still bet this river? Opponent was 48/23/2.3 through 168 hands. I was planning on check calling the river, but is this a spot to bet for value?Dealt to Hero[7 :club: A :club: ] 4 folds, hero raises, 1 fold, villain (button) 3 bets, 1 fold, bb calls, hero calls*** FLOP *** (9.5SB)[7 :diamond: A :spade: 10 :heart: ]bb checks, hero checks, villain bets, bb calls, hero raises, villain calls, bb calls*** TURN *** (7.75BB)[7 :diamond: A :spade: 10 :heart: ] [8 :club: ]bb checks, hero bets, villain calls, bb folds*** RIVER *** (9.75BB)[7 :diamond: A :spade: 10 :heart: ] [8 :club: ] [8 :heart: ]hero checks, villain checks*** SHOW DOWN ***

hero- Shows [7 :club: A :club: ] (Two Pair, aces and eights) villain-1 - [K :heart: 9 :heart: ] (One Pair, eights)hero Collects $8.80 from main pot

On this next hand, the villain is 42/2.8/2.0 through 116 hands. I seem to have found a pattern in that I do not really know what to do when I have a medium pocket pair and I'm facing multiple overcards. Villain raises my flop bet, but with all of the draws missing should I be betting this river?Dealt to hero[7 :diamond: 7 :heart: ] 1 fold, hero raises, 2 folds, villain (button) 3 bets, 2 folds, hero calls*** FLOP *** (7.5SB) [6 :heart: A :diamond: Q :diamond: ]hero bets, villain calls*** TURN *** (4.75BB) [6 :heart: A :diamond: Q :diamond: ] [9 :spade: ]hero checks, villain bets, hero calls*** RIVER *** (6.75BB) [6 :heart: A :diamond: Q :diamond: ] [9 :spade: ] [4 :spade: ]hero checks, villain checks*** SHOW DOWN ***

hero- Shows [7 :diamond: 7 :heart: ] (One pair, sevens) villain- Shows [5 :diamond: 5 :spade: ] (One pair, fives)hero Collects $5.95 from main pot

Ok last, hand. Playing against same villain as previous 77 hand. This hand came after the 77 hand. On this hand, I feel ok with the flop play, but on the turn I slow down, should I be calling down with this hand?Dealt to Hero [8 :heart: 6 :club: ] 3 folds, villain calls, 2 folds, hero checks*** FLOP *** (2.5SB)[10 :diamond: 7 :heart: 6 :spade: ]hero bets, villain calls*** TURN *** (2.25BB)[10 :diamond: 7 :heart: 6 :spade: ] [A :heart: ]hero checks, villain bets, hero calls*** RIVER *** (4.25BB) [10 :diamond: 7 :heart: 6 :spade: ] [A :heart: ] [3 :spade: ]hero checks, villain bets, hero calls*** SHOW DOWN ***

villain- Shows [2 :heart: K :heart: ] (ace high) hero- Shows [8 :heart: 6 :club: ] (One pair, sixes) hero Collects $5.45 from main pot

Also, one more question, does anyone know why I can't convert my hand histories? I play at AP, and I've tried multiple sites for converting my hands, but none seem to work. I use HEM, but I exported the original hand histories and tried converting them but it didn't work.

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Bet the turn in the first hand.3-bet pre-flop in the second hand (88). Raising the flop against him isn't as bad as I first thought, actually, as you probably get more value from a ton of AQ-type hands this way. It's probably good.A7 hand is fine mostly, but the river is a V-bet imo.The 77 hand is bad. Why donk the flop? You can just c/f that flop, particularly against a player that passive, after he 3-bets.[edit 'cause I don't read good.]Overall, I think I see a basic common thought error here where you maybe seem to guess you're possibly good and then just carelessly show it down, not really thinking about the lines your taking.

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Anyone agree that the 86 hand is maybe a spot to free-showdown-raise the turn? It's an interesting equity spot.
Does that work oop?I don't think I win any of these hands at sd.
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bet/fold or bet/call down?sorry the first hand was the only one i looked at.
Rereading that, I c/c the flop, call the turn and call pretty much any river. I think I sort of rushed through those and didn't really catch all the action. I also am skimming her because I'm entertaining company at the moment, but rereading the cap and everything, about the only things that don't have you drawing to down outs are like KsQs and QJs, if he pops that turn.I'm like dyslexic or something and seem to fail to properly read these things like 60% of the time, so please keep an eye on my analysis.
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thanks for the help guys, it all makes sense i think. i think my problem is that im playing too fast and not really thinking everything through. had a great start to my session tonight, was up 30BB through my first 100 hands and feeling great. then AP realized that I shouldn't be allowed to win any more half decent sized pots and I lost 80BB over my next 700 hands. felt myself starting to tilt so I just shut it down early. just one of those sessions where every meaningful pot goes the wrong way.

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fwiw, albeit a little late:in the first hand, if you are the type of player that likes his info, i would play the hand exactly like you did. if you're too cool for school and don't think you get much out of showing shit down, bet/folding the turn is fine at most limits.the second hand is easier to play if you 3b preflop, imo (this is 6m, right? 3betting at fr is prob bad). with his aggression factor you can safely bet/fold any street along the way if you do that.the a7 hand, you can probably bet the river as well. you're not getting raised by anything, really, i assume you're c/cing as played (pretty much all hands that beat you should vtown if checked to, i think. maybe not at some games, though), and worse hands definitely call you.77 i just c/f the flop. he's passive and 3bet you, an ace flopped, so you don't really beat much and he ain't folding much better than you got.86 hand is fine, but there are lots of valid options depending on your style and opponents.and i will not really be able to go into any detail, but don't play on AP. like, for serious.

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