Lhe Challenge(?) Thread

[wrto4556 0]

i got some money on fulltilt that i want on pokerstars. if anyone is down to make a trade IM me. its only like 4k. im an old school poster, ask around and you should know that im honest.

[navybuttons 15]

some people just arent cut out for poker, after all, we have to win from somebody.

yes we have to win from somebody, but i disagree that some people just aren't cut out for poker. compare a 2/4NL regular today (call him J) with the worlds best players of the 1970s. if J were alive in 1970 he would be one of the best NL players in the world. he would understand the game at a really high level, he would understand the spots better than everyone else, he would understand ranges and equity better than everybody else, etc.in the 1970s (if they'd spread NL games then) J would work his way up to the highest game. if he actually understood how to think about the game (as opposed to just having a solution that works for NLHE) then he would learn all the other games, but because he's so far ahead of everyone else he'd become one of the world's best players in every game he played.the people playing 10/20 limit (probably comparable to 3/6 limit online today in terms of game size) in the 1970s would look at J and say "man, some people just have it and some don't." they would think that there would be no way that they could ever get to J's level. whereas when you and i look at J from today's perspective we see him as totally average, people of the past view him as extraordinary, and people of the future will call him soft.i hope this illustrates what it is i'm trying to say.

I'm never going to be good enough to make it to $2000/$4000.

how do you know? have you done tests on your brain that let you know your potential as a poker player? when you were playing smaller stakes than you are playing now did you say "oh, i'll never be good enough to be at an average level?" i think a better way to say what you said is: i've resigned myself to average and am not willing to work hard enough to be the best.i don't want to come across as condescending, but i can't stress the importance of a player recognizing that he can be the best if he works hard enough. yes, to be the best today you probably have to work harder than you did in the 1970s, but it'll be way easier to be the best now than it will be to be the best in 2015.that book that i recommended awhile back goes really far in helping a player to realize that his potential is unlimited. but why listen to me, i usually don't have any idea what i'm talking about?___________________________________________________

as someone who started out with a similar Hellmuthian-inform composure, I tell you there's simply no way anything is being gain on either side, other than humor on yours.

if i believed this i would just make fun of the posters in this thread all the time. i was thinking about this a lot last night. i think what it comes down to is "want." i can't make someone "want" to be the best. the best i can do is give them the encouragement to realize that they can be the best if they choose to. so let me pose this question to the readers of this thread: do you want to be the best? what do you want to get out of the game of poker?be as specific as you want and give concrete examples. if you want to make a million dollars in 2009, then say that, if you want to make 3 million in 2009 then say that. pretend (as i know) that there is absolutely no limit to your potential, that you could have everything you wanted from this game, and that you didn't have ANY other responsibilities. what would you want? (if you give your answers in this thread, i'll help put you on a path)

[tuckermitchell 1]

so let me pose this question to the readers of this thread: do you want to be the best? what do you want to get out of the game of poker?be as specific as you want and give concrete examples. if you want to make a million dollars in 2009, then say that, if you want to make 3 million in 2009 then say that. pretend (as i know) that there is absolutely no limit to your potential, that you could have everything you wanted from this game, and that you didn't have ANY other responsibilities. what would you want? (if you give your answers in this thread, i'll help put you on a path)

What i'm looking for is just enough money to not worry about anything I want. I'm not a selfish guy, and I don't want to have to study this game for the rest of my life just to say I'm "one of the best". It's 100% not an ego thing for me. Sure, competition is fun, but in the end I'd like to be at a level where I can just easily win what it is I want for each day/week/month/year to provide myself and my son with the things I want. And I'm not saying this like I'm some material *******, but when I want to go out for dinner or buy my son a skateboard when he has earned it, I don't ever in my life again want to worry about if I have enough money to do so.That being said, I was doing this playing strictly MTT's and supplementing my job up until the beginning of summer this year. I decided to change up what I was doing and go to LHE as my time was not as free in such large blocks, which is kind of important for MTT grinding. In the process, I actually began to really really like LHE 6max. I just want to get to a winrate level to be good enough in a stakes level where I can achieve financial zen through as little time as possible, both to keep myself continually happy with playing and also to maximize my time with my son. And at no point will I be buying Gucci shoes with my money.Hope that makes sense. Oh, and go RedSox.

[navybuttons 15]

Hope that makes sense.

it makes sense to me.if you were gonna draw out a plan to have this income in 3 months what would that plan look like? what would the first month involve? the second? the third? what would the first week be like? in your first week: how much time would you spend playing versus studying? how much time should you spend looking for the best way to study? how much time should you work on your mental game? how much time should you dedicate to becoming motivated? how much time should you spend learning to optimize this balance?do you have enough time in your week to make this possible? if not currently, how can you organize or rearrange things in your life so that you can get this time? if it means that you can't watch t.v. with your wife then will she understand if you made her dinner instead? can you help your son with his homework as soon as he has the chance so that the rest of the night you can play? what can he do in the same room while you play so that you don't feel like your missing out on time with him?some of the questions are more specific than other ones, but i hope i'm asking a few of the right ones.

[DinkDonk 1]

Guys- Listen to Navy. He is correct in just about everything he's said. I know that it's not stuff you're used to hearing, but just listen. It's valuable information.

[navybuttons 15]

Guys- Listen to Navy. He is correct in just about everything he's said. I know that it's not stuff you're used to hearing, but just listen. It's valuable information.

thank you for this. i was beginning to think i was suffering.

[tuckermitchell 1]

it makes sense to me.if you were gonna draw out a plan to have this income in 3 months what would that plan look like? what would the first month involve? the second? the third? what would the first week be like? in your first week: how much time would you spend playing versus studying? how much time should you spend looking for the best way to study? how much time should you work on your mental game? how much time should you dedicate to becoming motivated? how much time should you spend learning to optimize this balance?do you have enough time in your week to make this possible? if not currently, how can you organize or rearrange things in your life so that you can get this time? if it means that you can't watch t.v. with your wife then will she understand if you made her dinner instead? can you help your son with his homework as soon as he has the chance so that the rest of the night you can play? what can he do in the same room while you play so that you don't feel like your missing out on time with him?some of the questions are more specific than other ones, but i hope i'm asking a few of the right ones.

in 3 months, considering my schedule of being a single FT dad and not liking to play for long periods I don't think it is possible. I already spend probably 2:1 studying to playing, as I keep books and such with me in downtime at work and I am on here and 2+2 quite a bit when I'm home in the evenings. I have actually started reading other things about zen buddhism, proper meditation and such that I think are actually helping me quite a bit in poker, at least with tilt control. My best friend is a gay ass Psych major so we talk about psychology somewhat frequently, even though I don't care too much for it. It has led me to take a more direct approach though with tryin to "get" what other people are thinking in social settings, which has led me to use it more to "get" what people are thinking in poker game settings. (that was a poorly written, run-on sentence)I already do some things now with my son so that I can be with him while playing, although I don't spend more than 45 minutes a day while multi-tasking. It generally includes me coloring, or reading something to him or with him while I play STT's or something of the like. A 6 year old is just too addicted to attention to try to Multitable 6max and spend time with. I was shooting for making it to 1/2 by the first of the year with a 300BB roll. While that may have been a little over expectation, it's better to set a goal that makes me feel really good if I do make it than just having some stupid thing that is easily achievable and gives me little sense of accomplishment. This is just a product of my personality in the past.

[checkymcfold 0]

in 3 months, considering my schedule of being a single FT dad and not liking to play for long periods I don't think it is possible. I already spend probably 2:1 studying to playing, as I keep books and such with me in downtime at work and I am on here and 2+2 quite a bit when I'm home in the evenings. I have actually started reading other things about zen buddhism, proper meditation and such that I think are actually helping me quite a bit in poker, at least with tilt control. My best friend is a gay ass Psych major so we talk about psychology somewhat frequently, even though I don't care too much for it. It has led me to take a more direct approach though with tryin to "get" what other people are thinking in social settings, which has led me to use it more to "get" what people are thinking in poker game settings. (that was a poorly written, run-on sentence)I already do some things now with my son so that I can be with him while playing, although I don't spend more than 45 minutes a day while multi-tasking. It generally includes me coloring, or reading something to him or with him while I play STT's or something of the like. A 6 year old is just too addicted to attention to try to Multitable 6max and spend time with. I was shooting for making it to 1/2 by the first of the year with a 300BB roll. While that may have been a little over expectation, it's better to set a goal that makes me feel really good if I do make it than just having some stupid thing that is easily achievable and gives me little sense of accomplishment. This is just a product of my personality in the past.

fwiw i would suggest that doing any sort of multitasking while playing is a bad habit to get into. if it's more reasonable for you to set aside 1-2 hours of time most days absolutely dedicated to playing, i would do that instead.

[navybuttons 15]

in 3 months, considering my schedule of being a single FT dad and not liking to play for long periods I don't think it is possible.

why don't you like to play long periods? is it something you can work on?

in downtime at work

could you optimize your downtime at work better? how could you get even more from that time at work you steal?

I am on here and 2+2 quite a bit when I'm home in the evenings.

how much is that actually improving your play? do you notice your play jumping by leaps and bounds? could there be better ways to improve your play faster?

I have actually started reading other things about zen buddhism, proper meditation and such that I think are actually helping me quite a bit in poker, at least with tilt control.

i don't believe that tilt control can be worked on, and thus i think you are a liar. would it help to take 5 minutes every hour at work to just meditate with your eyes open? how far could you push yourself to work in this regard?

My best friend is a gay ass Psych major so we talk about psychology somewhat frequently, even though I don't care too much for it. It has led me to take a more direct approach though with tryin to "get" what other people are thinking in social settings, which has led me to use it more to "get" what people are thinking in poker game settings. (that was a poorly written, run-on sentence)

practical application of something we teach in schools? again i don't believe it.

I was shooting for making it to 1/2 by the first of the year with a 300BB roll. While that may have been a little over expectation, it's better to set a goal that makes me feel really good if I do make it than just having some stupid thing that is easily achievable and gives me little sense of accomplishment. This is just a product of my personality in the past.

there is no "success" or "failure" to our goals. there is only how hard we worked to achieve them. to believe in failure is to limit yourself. feel good every time you work hard to achieve your goal (not as an end but as a means).this is the last thing i'll say on the subject today: poker is played on the "felt." that's where the money is passed back and forth. the game is 'won' and 'lost' off of the felt.

[whatgreatis 0]

The reason I lurk this thread is because of posts like that by Navy. You lhe challenge thread guys have great discussions that can be applied to any game, not just lhe. Sometimes I wish the challenge thread would be more like this thread but instead we have Exmatt drama.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

The reason I lurk this thread is because of posts like that by Navy. You lhe challenge thread guys have great discussions that can be applied to any game, not just lhe. Sometimes I wish the challenge thread would be more like this thread but instead we have Exmatt drama.

+1 to lurker... I've read every post in this thread.

[HighwayStar 8]

+1 to lurker... I've read every post in this thread.

Me too (recently) NL Challenge thread is good too although sometimes gets a little overridden with egos

[checkymcfold 0]

The reason I lurk this thread is because of posts like that by Navy. You lhe challenge thread guys have great discussions that can be applied to any game, not just lhe. Sometimes I wish the challenge thread would be more like this thread but instead we have Exmatt drama.

tbh a lot of it is that we all play one of the highest variance games out there, and the mental side of things is a great deal of where our edge comes from. while there's a lot of precise strategy discussion about specific hands that goes on in NL strat, in LHE there's usually something closer to an objectively correct play, and making sure that you're in the mindset that can riddle that play out at any given time is a whole, whole lot of the game.imo, of course.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Me too (recently) NL Challenge thread is good too although sometimes gets a little overridden with egos

Nobody cares what you think.sw

[Dirtydutch 8]

I love you NB. I'm PMing you.

[Flushgarden 0]

Navy, your words are always inspiring. Please don't stop sharing your thoughts. My short term goal is to make a minimum of 2.5k a month for the remaining 3 months of this year. 2.5 is what I told my wife I'd cash out each month when I started playing full time in June (It's equal to what my wife makes working part time while going to school full time. lol). I was able to honor that every month until this last one. Beyond this year, my goal is to make 70K from online poker in 2009. I think it is modest and very attainable with some hard work.I've decided to make a schedule for myself that I will follow for a while. Up until now I've been doing what I want, when I want, and I feel could/should be more productive with my time. I will modify it when I feel the time is right. I think some would argue that there isn't quite enough time for studying/thinking about poker while not playing. I feel I need to play 6 hours a day, and the time I have scheduled for other things is important for my mental/physical health, and will benefit me more than additional time studying.6:00 AM: Wake up (when the wife goes to school/work - 8:00 AM when she is off)Shower, go to the gym and work out for at least an hour. Home and reshowered by 10:00 AM (ideally earlier)10:00 AM - 11:30 AM: Watch training vids/study hands/read strat online (start earlier if done with workout earlier)11:30 AM - 12:00 PM: Eat brunch (away from computer)12:00 PM - 2:30 PM: Play Poker2:30 PM - 3:00 PM: Take a break (away from computer)3:00 PM - 5:00 PM: Play Poker5:00 PM - 6:00 PM: Break for dinner and time with the wife6:00 PM - 8:00 PM: Play poker8:00 PM - 10:00 PM: Relax/spend time with the wifeGo to bed at appx 10:00 PM, especially when she gets up early the next day.If I accomplish my goal in 2009 I'll be able to at least equal the salary she'll be making when she finishes school in September, and that is important to me. Also, once she is able to work full time I won't need to cash out nearly as much, so it will give me the opportunity to grow my bankroll and move up, and ideally that will lead to even more money. Hopefully I can be mentally prepared/good enough for the higher levels by then. A little luck with the laws in the U.S. changing to help online poker by then would be good too.My goal beyond 2009 is to make enough money from poker to start my own company again, only this time have proper capital. Also, I want to be in good shape by then. We want to start having kids after she finishes school, and if poker works it will allow me to be home and kinda do the stay at home dad thing for a little while. I know that will be hard to do if I'm trying to start a business and still play poker, but I'll work that out when I get there. It's a problem I hope to have.

[Flushgarden 0]

FG looks absolutely nothing like I expected. I pictured about 40, and White as a ghost.

Funny, that's the mental image I had of you as well.

And skinny!just kidding bro! I'm big boned too!

Yeah, I know I'm fat. lol Things have gotten a little out of control in that area over the past couple years. I'm so uncomfortable in my body lately. I'm working on it now though.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Funny, that's the mental image I had of you as well.

Nope. We're just a couple of young, over-assimilated ethnics, I guess.

[Flushgarden 0]

Nope. We're just a couple of young, over-assimilated ethnics, I guess.

Is Irish, French and a bit of American Indian thrown in ethnic? I think I'm white...just not quite ghostly.

[Dirtydutch 8]

Is Irish, French and a bit of American Indian thrown in ethnic? I think I'm white...just not quite ghostly.

You look SO not White in that picture. That's it, I'm revoking your scholarship.

[Flushgarden 0]

You look SO not White in that picture. That's it, I'm revoking your scholarship.

My children will not be white...that must count for something, right?

[wrto4556 0]

decided to start giving lessons in lhe and i figured this would be a good place to put up a post. Im a SOLID lhe player as well as 2-7 td, nlhe and lo8 are my "working" games. I learned from steve mandel fwiw, part of s7s. IM me if you are interested.

[Dirtydutch 8]

decided to start giving lessons in lhe and i figured this would be a good place to put up a post. Im a SOLID lhe player as well as 2-7 td, nlhe and lo8 are my "working" games. I learned from steve mandel fwiw, part of s7s. IM me if you are interested.

Most of you guys don't remember Wrto, and I haven't really been familiar with his posting since like '05, but fwiw I can vouch for the fact that back in the day, during the reign of SSHE, he was one of the most respected LHE posters and one I looked up to quite a bit.

[wrto4556 0]

Most of you guys don't remember Wrto, and I haven't really been familiar with his posting since like '05, but fwiw I can vouch for the fact that back in the day, during the reign of SSHE, he was one of the most respected LHE posters and one I looked up to quite a bit.

Ive gotten sooooooooooooo much better since 2005 and play nothing like SSHE. I play GOOD.thanks for the ups though!

[Dirtydutch 8]

Ive gotten sooooooooooooo much better since 2005 and play nothing like SSHE. I play GOOD.thanks for the ups though!

Oh, yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply that you were still like limping Q10s with 9 players after you an' shit (extreme example). It was correct to play the way we did then, and I'm sure you've grown even proportionately better than I have. I was just contextualizing the area in which I last knew you.