Keeping Records On Opponents (live Play) - Is It Worth The Time?

[pocket_change 0]

I'm a pretty regular player (20-40 hrs/week) at a casino here in Los Angeles. I'm the type of person that is nice to everyone, but I really don't try to make friends at the casino because I hate how all the regulars are friends and try to check it down all the time. I do it with some but would like to minimize that. So anyways I have one really good friend that I always discuss strategy, etc. with. We're thinking of making a spreadsheet or list of other regular players and sharing our thoughts and input on the players. The stakes I play are $3/5 blinds ($200 buy-in). My question is do you think this is even worth the time? And if it is, what should I include?Some of the ratings I've come up with are (with ratings of 1-10 on each):- player skill rating- player style i.e. LAG 8- Will bluff- Can be bluffed off top pari- Chases- Tilts- Raises to build pots- PredictabilityKeep in mind these are factors that I'm thinking of strictly for cash game purposes, not to write a book or win a tournament. I'm looking to gather information that will help me the next time I sit at a table with a guy. Thanks for any discussion.

[quadaces 0]

Hey I think if you play live enough it is definately worth it to try and keep notes on other players.

[whatgreatis 0]

While all those things you mentioned you should know about your opponent but are you planning on bringing the book to the casino to help you remember? I mean, can't you just remember who can be bluffed and all that? I'm a regular at our casino and I don't find it too hard to remember the player tendencies of other regulars.If you're having trouble remembering tendencies it's not a bad idea but it's not something I would do.

[pocket_change 0]

I definitely remember most players after I get in a puzzling, profitable or losing hand against them. But a lot of the reason for this is the fact that I'm sharing the information with my friend and vice versa. He plays at day and I play at night so we see a lot of different regulars. I have the theory that knowing something about someone that you didn't know can come back to be a huge profit. For instance if I played against "John Dough" last night and he made a huge bluff on me by betting $200 on the river with a missed draw, if my friend knew this (or if I had forgotten), it could mean $200+ profit somewhere down the road. Obviously this is sort of basic but I am toying with the idea.

[vbnautilus 48]

I get a lot of help on full tilt from the color tags you can put on players. So what I usually do live is to bring a stack of five different color post-it notes and just slap one on each person's shoulder at my table. They usually don't notice/mind. But seriously if you have a good system for sharing info with your friend, sounds great. I'd love to see if I show up on that spreadsheet, haha. The only thing that concerns me is that I'd rather have info on actual events that happened rather than interpretations of events. For example, "he bluffed on the river after missing a draw" is pretty good objective info to have. "player skill rating" and "can be bluffed with top pair" kind of stuff is less useful to me, as a lot of that depends on circumstances, table context, etc., and on interpretations. Having info that's not quite right can be worse than having no info.

[psujohn 0]

And if you do it in Excel you can you the convenient auto-fill features:Can be bluffed off top pair - 0Chases - 10

[pocket_change 0]

I get a lot of help on full tilt from the color tags you can put on players. So what I usually do live is to bring a stack of five different color post-it notes and just slap one on each person's shoulder at my table. They usually don't notice/mind. But seriously if you have a good system for sharing info with your friend, sounds great. I'd love to see if I show up on that spreadsheet, haha. The only thing that concerns me is that I'd rather have info on actual events that happened rather than interpretations of events. For example, "he bluffed on the river after missing a draw" is pretty good objective info to have. "player skill rating" and "can be bluffed with top pair" kind of stuff is less useful to me, as a lot of that depends on circumstances, table context, etc., and on interpretations. Having info that's not quite right can be worse than having no info.

Yeah I agree but at the same time I think those would still be helpful. Partially because if there's a guy that plays during the day a lot and then I run into him I might remember "oh yeah this guy is extra tight" or something. Do you play the $200?

[GWCGWC 83]

If you know a players name or a defining characteristic enough to be able to rate him/identify him to your friend, then you've played with the player enough to already know how he plays and what he's capable of. I always wondered how players who keep a book can identify the player months later. Like, do ask the player where they're from and their name? Poker is a small world and I'll recognize players from Denver/Albuquerque/Vegas quite often when I'm in a poker room.I'd say, waste of time.

[Merby 3]

If you know a players name or a defining characteristic enough to be able to rate him/identify him to your friend, then you've played with the player enough to already know how he plays and what he's capable of. I always wondered how players who keep a book can identify the player months later. Like, do ask the player where they're from and their name? Poker is a small world and I'll recognize players from Denver/Albuquerque/Vegas quite often when I'm in a poker room.I'd say, waste of time.

Carry a digital camera with you at all times and take their picture just before writing a note on them. For example, if you manage to pull off a big bluff and win a $1200 pot where you get them to lay down top two pair when the flush draw hits (even though you were drawing to the straight...), show your jack-high (to set up future plays), then *immediately* snap a photo of them while they are still digesting the revelation that you bluffed them, and pull out your tape recorder and start dictating to yourself, "Seat 3, photograph #12 today. Plays very timidly and can be bluffed off any hand when a scare card hits. Float his ass regularly..."When you're involved with him in a hand during a later session, pull out his photo and play back your audio notes on him. Make sure the tape recorder is loud enough for the whole table to hear.Oh yeah... also hire a bodyguard or two...

[southsidepoker 0]

That is the difference between good and great , recollection. I might not be able to remember where I put my car keys, but I can remember a hand of cards I played 3 years ago.

[NoSup4U 0]

And if you do it in Excel you can you the convenient auto-fill features:Can be bluffed off top pair - 0Chases - 10

This made me lol nh John :)I'm not sure if Merby was joking or serious about the camera, but I play in a local game here with a bunch of regulars, and 2 of my friends. We've used our camera phones and taken their pics, and put them all in a spreadsheet with info on how they play, and interesting hands they've played against us. Its super useful imo. Not sure how many $1000 pots you feel you'd have to win or lose to make it worth it to you, but it doesn't seem like many to me?Mark

[Merby 3]

This made me lol nh John :)I'm not sure if Merby was joking or serious about the camera, but I play in a local game here with a bunch of regulars, and 2 of my friends. We've used our camera phones and taken their pics, and put them all in a spreadsheet with info on how they play, and interesting hands they've played against us. Its super useful imo. Not sure how many $1000 pots you feel you'd have to win or lose to make it worth it to you, but it doesn't seem like many to me?Mark

I was joking because I find that the players in my local casino fall into two very broad categories.1) Players who play regularly or semi-regularly and I remember their faces and playing tendencies2) Players who I've only ever seen once in a blue moon. These recreational players just add money to our table by kindly chasing gutshots, under pairs, etc.I fall into category (1)... except when I don't fall into category (1). Then I fall into category (2).

[Gallo 1]

This made me lol nh John :)I'm not sure if Merby was joking or serious about the camera, but I play in a local game here with a bunch of regulars, and 2 of my friends. We've used our camera phones and taken their pics, and put them all in a spreadsheet with info on how they play, and interesting hands they've played against us. Its super useful imo. Not sure how many $1000 pots you feel you'd have to win or lose to make it worth it to you, but it doesn't seem like many to me?Mark

I've heard the rumor that at the end of a live session Mark walks out with about 11 different stickies on his back. just sayin.

[silkyjonson 1]

If you are going to see these players often enough I think its a good idea. When I first started playing in a game in florida and it was always the same players I would periodically take notes, even though I could remember a lot of it over time you begin to forget small details and tendencies. I felt like it helped to read over a little here and there and clarify my overall picture of certain players. .For the most part a few good notes on certain players can mean a huge jump in profit. Obviously don't do it at the table or bring it with you, but after a session when you go home write out a couple of notes on key players like the range they open with from early position or if they like to overplay their bluffs or make smallish bets with the nuts etc. it helps keep you razorsharp looking for those little edges.

[pocket_change 0]

Mark - that's basically exactly what I'm thinking of doing.Merby - lol.GWCGWC - That's the reason I doubt this system.Here's the thing - this system is more to remember the BAD players then the good ones. One thing that made me think of it was I was playing the other day and a guy sits down next to me. I recognize him but not well (we've played probably once before) and I don't remember how he plays. Then he makes a horrible call with bottom pair for $150 and it brings everything back to me and I start getting involved with him and win $$ off of him. I want to remember these players. When one sits down, I want to know right when he sits down. Where I play, there are a lot of guys who don't play too regularly, but go dump off chips every now and then and with the volume of players it's somewhat difficult to remember these guys. On the other hand, with the volume of players it would be tough to record also. I do think it might be useful though. It'd be hard to record but easy to review. The other problem is like someone said, finding ways to identify the players... "Old Asian guy" definitely won't work. Cam phone would be good but snapping shots would be hard. VBNautilus will LOL at me if he sees me discreetly taking pics haha.

[TwstdWrstr 10]

For instance if I played against "John Dough" ...

I see what you did there... I would think if you play that much against the same people over and over, it will benefit you greatly to keep notes on them. Write them down as soon as possible. Heck, use a voice recorder if you can. If I'm not mistaken many top live players record info about their sessions on a regular basis.

[Dratj 0]

Nah, i wouldn't do it. It would just confuse you after a while. If you play that much, you should be able to remember the regular's tendencies.

[jkalib 0]

I've heard the rumor that at the end of a live session Mark walks out with about 11 different stickies on his back. just sayin.

For the love of all that is holy, will someone please fix this post?But seriously, folks, I think this is worthwhile if for no other reason than it forces you to focus, to pay attention to other players and will force you to examine your play each session, as well as other people's. Even if it doesn't work the way you envision it, it will help your play.