push back and make a stand or wait for the nuts?

[Lord Ben 0]

A few months ago I was playing in a tourney and directly across from me on the table where a few people who were playing super aggressive. I am pretty sure they were mostly bluffing. It was good Friday and they had off of work and were drinking most of the day (one won the AM tourney and had been drinking away her winnings until the PM tourney). They weren't bad players, but just drunk and aggressive. Hard to read them too since their expressions were saying "I'm drunk" rather than that they were bluffing or had the nuts.I screwed up and played them badly, and I put a lot of thought into how to play against super aggressive players. Not sure if I'm right though, I haven't gotten the chance to test out any of my theories. I wasn't used to playing with someone aggressive. Usually I'm one of the most aggressive people at the table and people fear me. It was a complete turnabout for me. What should I do? Wait until they push in a sizeable bet preflop when I'm holding something semi-decent like AQ and push all in? Hopefully they were bluffing and will fold, if not hope the AQ holds up? This isn't a good long term strategy, but they may not keep pushing into me all night long. This is what I plan on doing next time, make a stand and show them that I can't be pushed around all night.Wait until I flop the nuts and double up? It's a near 100% guarantee that If I slowplay I'll take down a monster pot. This is what I tried to do, but I never got a good enough hand post flop. I got down to short stack and lost the rest in an all-in coin flip. The tourney is fairly short with a quick blind schedule so I couldn't afford to wait too long.Something else I haven't thought of?

[spt24 0]

Usually I'm one of the most aggressive people at the table and people fear me. It was a complete turnabout for me. What should I do? Something else I haven't thought of?

Well, if nothing else you can approach this as a lesson that your opponents might be thinking about. Since this is something that you normally do, figure out your weaknesses. Your weaknesses will be theirs, exploit them and learn from them by all means.

[Makavelli 0]

how were they reacting to reraises? If they were calling anything, then, yes, you've got to wait till you can trap them. If they were being good bullies and backing down, then no, pick your spots and train them to do what you want them to do. It's more about what they're calling than what they're betting, in terms of how to handle them.I could be wrong.

[Quagmire 0]

I know I'm paraphrazing here, but doesn't Sklansky suggest something like this when playing against a maniac:Call more, raise less, and bet your hands for value more.No matter what, leave the ego at the door, because there's no prize for winning the most aggressive player award. I've heard they hand out prizes for finishing in the top couple spots though. Any truth to this?

[Lord Ben 0]

They folded to reraises or went over the top with another raise. Sometimes just call. They mixed it up pretty well.

[Lord Ben 0]

I know I'm paraphrazing here, but doesn't Sklansky suggest something like this when playing against a maniac:Call more, raise less, and bet your hands for value more.No matter what, leave the ego at the door, because there's no prize for winning the most aggressive player award. I've heard they hand out prizes for finishing in the top couple spots though. Any truth to this?

Is that with limit or no-limit? Just calling puts me nearly all-in.Any hand I play I have to essentially go all-in on to see all the cards. Her standard reaises were 500 preflop, 1000 at the turn, and 2000 at the river. That's nearly my entire stack just to see all the cards. I wasn't getting great cards, but some were good enough to see the flop on (AK a few times but never panned out). 500 per flop and it gets my 4k short stacked real fast.

[quickstilz 0]

It's not that complicated. You said you're usually the one being aggressive at the table. Well, what can your opponents do that can get you off your game? Do the exact same thing to your aggressive opponents.

[Quagmire 0]

My bad - that advice is for LHE.Sounds like you needed to rock up and wait to slowplay your monsters. No more suited Aces, no more suited connectors, and no more low pocket pairs from EP.

[HoosierAlum 0]

I know I'm paraphrazing here, but doesn't Sklansky suggest something like this when playing against a maniac:Call more, raise less, and bet your hands for value more.No matter what, leave the ego at the door, because there's no prize for winning the most aggressive player award. I've heard they hand out prizes for finishing in the top couple spots though. Any truth to this?

In supersystem 2, Mike Caro says when facing a bully:Call more oftenRaise less oftenSELDOM value betThis is Limit HE

[Quagmire 0]

2 out of 3 ain't . . . good.

[TheIceman05 0]

If you're quasi-shortstacked, and they're REALLY pushing people around, I'd probably be inclined to move with almost any playable hand if it figures to be way ahead. If she's raising to 500, and you've only got 3000 left, just calling isn't really an option. Move in for 2500 more with hands like AJ, and you figure to be ahead, ESPECIALLY if she's likely to fold. Do this every once in a while, and if you can build a stack yourself, you can take a chance and see a flop, maybe trap her for a lot of chips. In cash games, I like to see lots of flops, positive that I'll outplay them sooner or later, let them think their strategy is working, and occassionally isolate with certain vulnerable hands that I'd much rather play heads-up (99, for example)Ice

[Rogue 0]

I agree with Ice on this. I've been in this situation before (or close to it), and I know it's no fun. I would pick a hand that I'm willing to go all-in pre-flop with, make my standard raise, and, when the bully raises me, go all-in immediately. Making a move like that says that your willing to see it through the end for all your money, and it puts them to the decision instead of you. You might get sucked out on, might be dominated pre-flop, but the only way to put a stop to it is to push back--don't call an all-in--initiate it. You might have to do it more than once, believe it or not, but, after you take a healthy chunk of their chip stack, they won't be nearly as willing to bully you. Some others may have a more effective way of dealing with bullies in no-limit, but, in my experience, this the best way I have found.