Here's The Situation

[fatman 1]

First, if anyone says "collusion" I will punch them. When the bubble burst, he called me up... we wished each other luck, and I told him... "hey I wanna make sure we play this straight up... but obviously remember that I need top 4 to make another 1050 and we should probably just stay out of each other's way."Put yourself in this situation and tell me your thoughts. Im insanely pissed at him. He told me after that if i simply wrote in aim... "fold" that he would have... I thought it was just common sense that if you dont have AK AA or KK (along with a few other hands) that this should be an instant muck.If this was any other player he should have made the call. He's getting a decent price... but in this situation i find it to be completely unnessecary to call another 260k+ when you are never ever ahead and you have a very good stack.

You don't want anyone to say that this was collusion but that is exactly what you were asking your roommate to do. You can be pissed that you were drawn out on but don't be pissed at your roommate when he, according to your own words, should have made the call.

[fbonacci 0]

Your roomie is an idiot for calling you down with KQ. Strike one.Your roomie is an idiot for calling you down under the circumstances. Strike two.Your roomie said if you'd AIM'd him to fold, he would have. Strike three.Death is the only suitable punishment.Question: Since when is 2 to 1 odds to call an all-in (with KQ) +EV? Am I in my own little world here?- Any Ax is leading, if only by a small margin (3 to 2 dog, you are)- Chances are, if your opponent has a PP, you have two overs. Again, you are a small dog (56% to 44%)- If opponent has (the most logical choices) AK, AQ, you are dominated and a 7 to 3 dog (off the top of my head).- If Opp has AA, KK or QQ, again you are a serious dog (7 to 3, at best).So, my question stands, are you going to take 2 to 1 odds as an invitation to call a large part of your stack off with KQ?My answer is NO.

Mercury I do appreciate your very valid analysis of my one hand. And in looking at your -66% roi, and -2k in winnings Im going to immediately incorporate your style into my game (assuming you are xMercury69x, which how many other douches can there be with that name?) You wana take a look at my stack before you decide that is a LARGE PART and i am an idiot? I wouldnt have folded if he asked me to because it was smart for the game, I would have done it as a favor for him. I am 100% willing to take that flip every time, with him being that short are the most logical choices that he really picked up AA or KK, or AK/Q against random player X in that spot, he picked up Ax, or any PP, and has to shove w. 11 BBs. Maybe play a few final tables before you offer your internet regurgitated, constructive (and i use that word very loosely) criticism. Stop saying roomie you sound like a 12yr old girl at band camp

[GWCGWC 83]

The first few responses to this thread had me worried. Kind of like the Loosle slow rolling thread, except that thread took 50 posts before someone spoke the truth. OP, it's natural to feel upset about the results. You can't say you're going to stay out of each others way but not collude. By vocalizing the soft play, you're guilty of collusion. It's like when you're on the bubble in a SNG and the short stack goes all in, gets two callers and they check it down. Checking down is implied and not cheating. If one of them vocalizes the check down, it's collusion. FTP collusion software must really suck. You both live together and your acct is normally your home IP. You're at another friends house so your IP is different than normal and your roommate is on your home IP? Why didn't this raise flags?

[DCJ001 0]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/140189

[Vtlaxer09 4]

The first few responses to this thread had me worried. Kind of like the Loosle slow rolling thread, except that thread took 50 posts before someone spoke the truth. OP, it's natural to feel upset about the results. You can't say you're going to stay out of each others way but not collude. By vocalizing the soft play, you're guilty of collusion. It's like when you're on the bubble in a SNG and the short stack goes all in, gets two callers and they check it down. Checking down is implied and not cheating. If one of them vocalizes the check down, it's collusion. FTP collusion software must really suck. You both live together and your acct is normally your home IP. You're at another friends house so your IP is different than normal and your roommate is on your home IP? Why didn't this raise flags?

are u saying that our accts. should be locked and the funds seized because we final tabled a 1500 person tournament and we live together? If so then I think you're completely right.edit: 1584***

[fatman 1]

As a friend... he should make this fold 100% of the time.

That is so wrong it is not even funny. It shouldn't even play into his decision. Quit trying to justify why you are (or were) pissed off at him.

[Mercury69 3]

Mercury I do appreciate your very valid analysis of my one hand. And in looking at your -66% roi, and -2k in winnings Im going to immediately incorporate your style into my game (assuming you are xMercury69x, which how many other douches can there be with that name?) You wana take a look at my stack before you decide that is a LARGE PART and i am an idiot? I wouldnt have folded if he asked me to because it was smart for the game, I would have done it as a favor for him. I am 100% willing to take that flip every time, with him being that short are the most logical choices that he really picked up AA or KK, or AK/Q against random player X in that spot, he picked up Ax, or any PP, and has to shove w. 11 BBs. Maybe play a few final tables before you offer your internet regurgitated, constructive (and i use that word very loosely) criticism. Stop saying roomie you sound like a 12yr old girl at band camp

Thanks for airing out my poor stats...what site was that, Full Tilt, yeah, I've had a horrible time there.Let me clue you in on something: When someone calls you an idiot on the internet, it's rarely anything based on something personal. You want to be a douche and retort like that to me having an opinion, well, go **** yourself. You want to take this to a table? We can go head's up in a tourney, if you like. Anywhere in the $10-$20 range is still within my BR, despite what my stats say. You want to run your mouth off? Let's do it on Stars, because I'll have no chat to respond with. We can even make it best of three when you lose the first one.You pick me out of ALL these people to run your mouth at? Go fuck yourself and put up some $$$ to back it up with, you stupid little fuck. PS: You cost your "roomie" some money, pos. You owe him a dinner, at very least. Moron.

[Poker Addict 0]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/140189

This basically answers the question, imo. Whether or not playing the KQ that way was the "correct" thing to do, doesn't matter. You can NOT change your play for a friend. Period.

[GWCGWC 83]

are u saying that our accts. should be locked and the funds seized because we final tabled a 1500 person tournament and we live together? If so then I think you're completely right.

No of course not. The HH's should be reviewed when these types of IP situations come up. If they found soft playing/chip dumping then yes, absolutely the accts should be frozen and banned.

[Mercury69 3]

Wow, the roomie really pissed me off. How unreasonable am I being?BTW, my ROI on Stars is actually 5%, which still sucks, I know, but at least it's showing a profit.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

You're obviously young VT and I don't think you understand the image that you're presenting here. It isn't a good one.What you wanted your friend to do is black and white cheating. It isn't grey although what you wanted him to do goes on all the time and in the spectrum of cheating is a very minor infraction.I don't think you're a bad person or a scum bag but you do have to understand that anything that takes away from every player at the table playing in their own self interest and only their own self interest is against the spirit of the game.

[James D 0]

Wow, the roomie really pissed me off. How unreasonable am I being?

lol roomieaments, imo.

[fbonacci 0]

Thanks for airing out my poor stats...what site was that, Full Tilt, yeah, I've had a horrible time there.Let me clue you in on something: When someone calls you an idiot on the internet, it's rarely anything based on something personal. You want to be a douche and retort like that to me having an opinion, well, go **** yourself. You want to take this to a table? We can go head's up in a tourney, if you like. Anywhere in the $10-$20 range is still within my BR, despite what my stats say. You want to run your mouth off? Let's do it on Stars, because I'll have no chat to respond with. We can even make it best of three when you lose the first one.You pick me out of ALL these people to run your mouth at? Go fuck yourself and put up some $$$ to back it up with, you stupid little fuck. PS: You cost your "roomie" some money, pos. You owe him a dinner, at very least. Moron.

Working tonight from 4 until 9/10, then I will be happy to stack youWill your tuba lesson be over by then liddle girl ??And like i wasnt gona buy him dinner, or stake him, or a case anywaysand your stars stats...arent much better

[Poker Addict 0]

No of course not. The HH's should be reviewed when these types of IP situations come up. If they found soft playing/chip dumping then yes, absolutely the accts should be frozen and banned.

QFTThe hand in question wouldn't be enough even if he did dump it. Because it was a marginal hand anyway.

[looshle 6]

The fact that you admit that since hes your friend his folding percentage should go from 25% to 100% fully shows you are mad at him for NOT colluding.

[Mercury69 3]

Working tonight from 4 until 9/10, then I will be happy to stack youWill your tuba lesson be over by then liddle girl ??And like i wasnt gona buy him dinner, or stake him, or a case anywaysand your stars stats...arent much better

What's your time zone, princess?

[GWCGWC 83]

Wow, the roomie really pissed me off. How unreasonable am I being?BTW, my ROI on Stars is actually 5%, which still sucks, I know, but at least it's showing a profit.

Working tonight from 4 until 9/10, then I will be happy to stack youWill your tuba lesson be over by then liddle girl ??And like i wasnt gona buy him dinner, or stake him, or a case anywaysand your stars stats...arent much better

What's your time zone, princess?

This cracks me the fuck up.

[fbonacci 0]

EST

[Sportsmack 0]

Thanks for airing out my poor stats...what site was that, Full Tilt, yeah, I've had a horrible time there.Let me clue you in on something: When someone calls you an idiot on the internet, it's rarely anything based on something personal. You want to be a douche and retort like that to me having an opinion, well, go **** yourself. You want to take this to a table? We can go head's up in a tourney, if you like. Anywhere in the $10-$20 range is still within my BR, despite what my stats say. You want to run your mouth off? Let's do it on Stars, because I'll have no chat to respond with. We can even make it best of three when you lose the first one.You pick me out of ALL these people to run your mouth at? Go fuck yourself and put up some $$$ to back it up with, you stupid little fuck. PS: You cost your "roomie" some money, pos. You owe him a dinner, at very least. Moron.

Working tonight from 4 until 9/10, then I will be happy to stack youWill your tuba lesson be over by then liddle girl ??And like i wasnt gona buy him dinner, or stake him, or a case anywaysand your stars stats...arent much better

What's your time zone, princess?

Cripple Fight!!

[Mercury69 3]

This cracks me the fuck up.

Glad you were amused.I'm laughing about it now, but I'd like to know Roomie's FT and PS screen names to look up his ROI. I'll play him regardless, though. Best 2 of 3 at $10 or $20, HU tourney. w/e.

[mtdesmoines 3]

nvm, bc its not what you wanted to hear? You changed the way the both of you play at a FT which isn't fair to anyone else at the table. It's colluding AND cheating.

Pretty much what I was thinking. It's hard enough to win against people who aren't colluding.

[onlyme386 0]

If this was any other player he should have made the call. He's getting a decent price...

Dude, you answered your own question.I'll say more. if he folds, you could easily have him chip dump to you repetitively with you 3betting him with any 2 cards knowing that he is going to fold and no one else will get involved. This alone could get you deep in the tournament. Think if you were another player at the table and you saw this happening?

[mtdesmoines 3]

You're obviously young VT and I don't think you understand the image that you're presenting here. It isn't a good one.What you wanted your friend to do is black and white cheating. It isn't grey although what you wanted him to do goes on all the time and in the spectrum of cheating is a very minor infraction.I don't think you're a bad person or a scum bag but you do have to understand that anything that takes away from every player at the table playing in their own self interest and only their own self interest is against the spirit of the game.

/ thread

[Figger 0]

Glad you were amused.I'm laughing about it now, but I'd like to know Roomie's FT and PS screen names to look up his ROI. I'll play him regardless, though. Best 2 of 3 at $10 or $20, HU tourney. w/e.

I smell some "Pay per View" action.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

You're obviously young VT and I don't think you understand the image that you're presenting here. It isn't a good one.What you wanted your friend to do is black and white cheating. It isn't grey although what you wanted him to do goes on all the time and in the spectrum of cheating is a very minor infraction.I don't think you're a bad person or a scum bag but you do have to understand that anything that takes away from every player at the table playing in their own self interest and only their own self interest is against the spirit of the game.

I appreciate your input Bob.Here's the last thing Im going to say in this thread. I will agree that what I wanted him to do was what any player would want. Noone wants A9 to go up against KQ deep in a tourney. Would I want him lay AJ... AQ... AK?... certainly not, as this would absolutely be cheating. I still hold firm to this being a very very very marginal situation in a VERY Shitty circumstance. I've never been in a situation like this before and I think I handled it very well in that I DID NOT share cards.... I DID NOT encourage him to fold. Im sorry if Im presenting a poor image Bob... that certainly wasnt my intention and I completely agree with the last thing you wrote about self interest. I think in this case however, it is simply unavoidable not to think about your best friend's self interest as well. He did a good job of putting that aside and calling. I, myself dont think I could have done that. I guess I never should have posted this thread up but again... im sorry for those of you who now view me as a scum bag. I approached a very difficult situation to the best of my ability and I have no regrets. Thank you all again.