Here's The Situation

[Vtlaxer09 4]

First, if anyone says "collusion" I will punch them. I played the daily doubles last night. I finished 42nd in A and final tabled B. Another guy finished 28th in A and I busted him in 19th in B. Therefore his avg. best finish was 23.5. I needed to get top 4 to win the roughly 1050$ best finish jackpot, 5th to tie. My roommate also made the final table in B. This was actually the first time we were seated at the same table in the tournament. The avg. coming in was about 350k. I had roughly 450k and he had 210k, therefore we had not discussed trading a piece of ourselves yet etc. I was not at my house with him during this time.. I was over at a friend's but we had been chatting on aim and rooting each other on etc. When the bubble burst, he called me up... we wished each other luck, and I told him... "hey I wanna make sure we play this straight up... but obviously remember that I need top 4 to make another 1050 and we should probably just stay out of each other's way." FINAL TABLE BEGINS: He chips up quickly to 1.1 million chips and I had been blinded down to about 350,000 when this hand comes up. We are playing 6 handed.Full Tilt Poker Game #5392035336: Daily Double - B (40288685), Table 96 - 15000/30000 Ante 4000 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:46:49 ET - 2008/02/25Seat 1: fairhero (411,402)Seat 2: ROOMMATE (1,086,189)Seat 3: Gentle Assasain (833,176)Seat 6: ME (340,631)Seat 7: Realbigfsh (324,478)Seat 9: Topcheese (172,124)Topcheese posts the small blind of 15,000fairhero posts the big blind of 30,000The button is in seat #7*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to vtlaxer09 [Ad 9s]Roommate raises to 60,000Gentle Assasain foldsvtlaxer09 raises to 336,631, and is all inRealbigfsh foldsTopcheese foldsfairhero foldsRoommate has 15 seconds left to actRoommate has requested TIMEarfin (Observer): lolRoommate calls 276,631vtlaxer09 shows [Ad 9s]Roommate shows [Kh Qd]*** FLOP *** [6h 3c Qh]*** TURN *** [6h 3c Qh] [4d]*** RIVER *** [6h 3c Qh 4d] [Ks]LivesWithMommy (Observer): ggvtlaxer09 shows Ace King highRoommate shows two pair, Kings and QueensRoommate wins the pot (742,262) with two pair, Kings and Queensvtlaxer09 stands up*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 742,262 | Rake 0Board: [6h 3c Qh 4d Ks]Seat 1: fairhero (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 2: Roommate showed [Kh Qd] and won (742,262) with two pair, Kings and QueensSeat 3: Gentle Assasain folded before the FlopSeat 6: vtlaxer09 showed [Ad 9s] and lost with Ace King highSeat 7: Realbigfsh (button) folded before the FlopSeat 9: Topcheese (small blind) folded before the FlopI bust in 6th... making 500$ and change... cool... Put yourself in this situation and tell me your thoughts. Im insanely pissed at him. He told me after that if i simply wrote in aim... "fold" that he would have... I thought it was just common sense that if you dont have AK AA or KK (along with a few other hands) that this should be an instant muck.If this was any other player he should have made the call. He's getting a decent price... but in this situation i find it to be completely unnessecary to call another 260k+ when you are never ever ahead and you have a very good stack. Please leave your thoughts... thank you.EDIT: Im going to add this to the OP I wrote the above very quickly while still very pissed about it all.(this is posted later in the thread)I've been a part of these forums for quite a while now and alot of you know me to be a very decent person and someone who loves poker. For those of you who dont know me too well... please dont be so quick to judge me and call me a cheater... because I am the oppositeI see all of your points as valid but let me clear up a few things. We did NOT share cards. I did NOT change the way i played. I did NOT expect him to change the way he would play other than.... In an iffy situation.... such as having KQ with 60k in.... a fold is not a terrible thing to do. Im never asking him to fold AK there or 1010... etc. etc. etc. IMO if you approach this issue with a clear cut "this is cheating and this isnt" attitude.. then you're taking the wrong approach. This isnt an online poker forum buddy of mine... this is my best friend and roommate who is always wanting me to do well... and likewise I want him to do well. Like i said.. i fold 100% of the time if I were him.Im pretty much over it... I understand where alot of you are coming from... and I really hope you can put yourselves in my shoes and try to understand. I understand his call and Im a little upset about the hand (moreso that I cant ever win a 60/40) but more or less i just felt like he should have folded. (I understand this is the poker table... but seriously people try and see things from my side) I didnt have to post this situation here but I thought it would make for a good thread seeing as how general has been slightly lacking as of late. I wanted your honest opinions... not snide remarks. I got a few of each and I thank those of you that contributed something.It was a very very very unusual circumstance.. one that I had never been in before. In my opinion I handled it fine. I played exactly how I would have played it. I really dont think that expecting a fold out of my roommate constitutes me being a cheater. Thank you,AG

[Pokerroad 0]

Like I said last night time for a new roomate

[TB17 0]

Is this some sort of kevel?

[outsider13 0]

Whatever ZeeJustin.Just kidding, you need to punch him in the face. That's brutal.

[LincolnK 1]

so you wanted him to play you differently than the rest of the table, to help you finish better?

[terradawg 0]

I think it's a really tough situation. You don't want to soft play each other, but he knows that by calling you stand a chance of losing the jackpot. I would be pretty pissed that he called but try to understand that he was also not colluding by making the call.

[BeaverStyle 1]

IMO it's colluding if he wouldn't have made the call based on your possibility of making more money. What do you care, you're pwning lately.. :-p

[acesup85 0]

From DN:Soft Playing is Cheating: Go big, or go homeWhat I'm about to say may surprise you. You might be a cheater and not even know it.If you are in a poker game for money and are taking it easy on one of your buddies, you are cheating yourself, your friend, and every other player in the game. I realize that's a bold statement, but it's absolutely true.In the poker world, we have a term for this type of play. It's called soft playing. When two friends, spouses, relatives or flat-out cheaters don't bet against each other, they're soft playing.Soft playing destroys the integrity of the game of poker and it's wrong, dead wrong.I realize that many players have no idea that this behavior is so unethical. More often than not, soft playing (not to be confused with slowplaying) is done innocently with no harm intended. Perhaps a gentleman doesn't want to take a lady's last $20. Or, one player doesn't want to raise his friend because his friend is losing too much money.Well, if you are so concerned with your buddy losing money, or if you're trying to get a date by not betting against a beautiful woman, try taking them both out to dinner after the game. The poker table is no place for compassion and kindness. I'm sort of kidding, but I think you get the idea.So just saying, you shouldn't really be mad at your friend if you are saying that if it was anyone else he should have called. He played against you like he would have played against anyone else, and that is how it should be.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

so you wanted him to play you differently than the rest of the table, to help you finish better?

Im glad you've contributed so much to the forums.

[20TN40 0]

Roomate jealous of your recent success? Knowing what he did know (that you just needed a 4th to get the jackpot) and with his stack, he had no reason other than spite to call you right there.

[TheRegime 0]

Im totally against collusion but if I had the chance for my friend to make a lot of money I would help him out.plus KQ is a questionable call anyways. Plus he was chip leader why not let you win more. I hate soft playing but in this particualr situation where a jackpot is on the line I would want him to soft play. As others said punch him and get a new roomate.

[LincolnK 1]

Im glad you've contributed so much to the forums.

so we're equating number of posts to the value of my input? it's an honest question that wasn't asked before I got to the thread. if you're going to make snide comments instead of taking into consideration the feeback of the people who respond, why make a thread at all? you could have started a thread that just said "fuck you, 50% of the forum."

[Willing 2 Die 0]

OP, you cant have it both ways here. You want him to play straightforward, but then you want to collude with him, as you admitted so in your post. If he's playing it straightfoward, he made the right call. If he didn't call you, then he's colluding with you. Now, quit complaining that you didn't get your jackpot, and stop colluding.Serious post.

[ah2388 0]

you know i think it sucks that you lost that hand, and I wish you all the best....and while it obviously wouldve been really nice of him to fold in this spot....you cant expect him to play you any differently if you wanna keep it "straight up"

[Jambizzle 0]

If I were you, I'd also be totally pissed at him, but Laxer, if you but yourself in his spot, he made the decision for himself which is what poker is all about. Credit to him for taking the correct route and not soft-playing you. If roles were reversed, I'd be surprised and dissappointed if you folded in this spot.I was put in a similar spot at big local live event recently against a close friend and a player who I've helped improve, as much as he has I. At the end of the hand, I looked back knowing I had earned the chips I gained from making a huge call on the river against him.As far as being room-mates go, I think it shows, you've got a good choice in room-mates as he is seemingly honourable and fair.If I were him, I'd probably have taken the same route again, and credit to the man on his decision.But well done on going so well dude, hope your daily FTs continue for many a months to come.

[Cappy37 0]

It's a double-edged sword, because you generally want to stay out of each others way, but he knows how you play so it will widen his calling range of you.And anyone says they wouldn't AIM roomate "FOLD!" is a big, far liar. ;)It's not soft-playing, it's still gambling.. Aiming him "FOLD" means you don't WANT him to call. With his big chip lead, you obviously are not concerned a about *his* well-being. The more that I think about it, the more msg'n him "FOLD" is like telling him "I'm flippy/hurting with about anything you got under there that's making you time bank...

[Andromeda 0]

If this was any other player he should have made the call. He's getting a decent price... but in this situation i find it to be completely unnessecary to call another 260k+ when you are never ever ahead and you have a very good stack.

This is the part that seals it for me; he called you with a hand that should have made the call. You shouldn't be upset with him over this...it sucks for sure but come on, if you wouldn't put your mother all-in for her tournament life, just stand up now.

[MrJohn 0]

you know i think it sucks that you lost that hand, and I wish you all the best....and while it obviously wouldve been really nice of him to fold in this spot....you cant expect him to play you any differently if you wanna keep it "straight up"

Best post/advice right here.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

you know i think it sucks that you lost that hand, and I wish you all the best....and while it obviously wouldve been really nice of him to fold in this spot....you cant expect him to play you any differently if you wanna keep it "straight up"

I agree with you... but there's straight up... and then there's straight up knowing that one of your best friends has a very easy chance of making an extra 1500$ if you make a fold that is.... i dont want to say marginal... but definitely not a clear cut CALL especially since I had not yet played a hand at the final table.Someone asked what I would do if our roles were reversed.100% fold. No doubt about it. Call me a cheater... but thats just common sense imho.

[looshle 6]

it's easy, you're a douchebag

[Vick12 0]

OPU are a very good player, but u are wrong on a few levels.1st...Poker is ALWAYS every man for himself. If u are indeed playing for the win (as I assume someone of your playing caliber does), then you are gonna have to stack everyone anyway. Basically your convo in AIM should have been...good luck and I am going to crush faces....not hey remember I need 4th.2nd...You put HIM in a horrible spot anyways by shoveling over his min raise. U had 11 BB's and your shove over his minraise has him pretty much pot committed to call w/ KQ AGAINST YOUR RANGE. So even if he wasn't your roomate, when u shove any player who DOESN'T snap call your shove is making a -EV play.....imo!

[Vtlaxer09 4]

it's easy, you're a douchebag

was actually anxious to hear your response......nvm.

[looshle 6]

was actually anxious to hear your response......nvm.

nvm, bc its not what you wanted to hear?You changed the way the both of you play at a FT which isn't fair to anyone else at the table. It's colluding AND cheating.

[acesup85 0]

I agree with you... but there's straight up... and then there's straight up knowing that one of your best friends has a very easy chance of making an extra 1500$ if you make a fold that is.... i dont want to say marginal... but definitely not a clear cut CALL especially since I had not yet played a hand at the final table.Someone asked what I would do if our roles were reversed.100% fold. No doubt about it. Call me a cheater... but thats just common sense imho.

You can't say in the OP that if it was anyone else he should have made the call and then try to make it look like your friend was being a jerk. He is trying to win a poker tournament, just like you were. It would be bad for his table image with that stack to fold for those odds. Nothing is going to change now, your friend did the ethical thing which is to play you like you were any other person. Plus, you were the one trying to resteal from him. That isn't really staying out of each other's way, now is it?

[Suited_Up 2]

You had the best hand and lost. He didn't exactly hurt your chances, you just lost a race. You can't ask for more than getting it in good, even marginally good. Well, besides asking to win the hand, but here's another thought.... Maybe you wouldn't have made that play if someone else at the table had made the raise. Were you just reraising your roommate because you expected him to help you out and fold? I would say it has to come into the equation at some point, and in that case it's not really straight up.Still sucks, but cheating is bad.