Who Is The Greatest Sportsman Of All Time?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You have got to be kidding me. I don't know what nationality you are (assuming black) but seriously, why does everything have to come down to race? There have been tons of black musicians, athletes, activists, and politians who have never been soft spoken or put up a "false front for the white man". I don't understand your "argument" at all.

First of all, I'm white and you're stupidlook at the way black athletes acted before Ali. Being a black athlete was dangerous, many people didn't want them in athletics at all. It's all fine and dandy for us in the new millennium to cast stones, but before Ali, black athletes had to act a certain, quiet, respectful way, or they could get lynched or black balled. Athletics were a white owned, white controlled, and had white fans. Guys like Joe Lewis, Jackie Robinson, and hell, even musicains and entertainers had to act in a certain, non threatening way, or they would not be accepted by white people. Ali helped change that. And Ali was HATED for it, and still is, apparently. Ask a black person over the age of 40 what Ali means to them. Not everything has to come down to race. But Ali does. He was a titanic cultural icon.watch "Ali Raps" the ESPN special if you need further explanation of what Ali meant to black people, culturally and politically.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

look at the way black athletes acted before Ali. Being a black athlete was dangerous, many people didn't want them in athletics at all. It's all fine and dandy for us in the new millennium to cast stones, but before Ali, black athletes had to act a certain, quiet, respectful way, or they could get lynched or black balled. Athletics were a white owned, white controlled, and had white fans. Guys like Joe Lewis, Jackie Robinson, and hell, even musicains and entertainers had to act in a certain, non threatening way, or they would not be accepted by white people. Ali helped change that. And Ali was HATED for it, and still is, apparently. Ask a black person over the age of 40 what Ali means to them.

But does all this make him a great athlete or a great figure or both. I think the term "great athlete" is ill defined and one could go many ways with it. A much more obvious question would be, "who is the best at any particular sport." I think the answers to this question are quite clear (Jordan, Gretzky , Tiger, possibly Federer...)But if one considers cultural impact, it's difficult to argue against people like the Babe and Ali. It's not just that they played the sport well, which they both obviously did, but they both changed the sport itself and the entire nation at the same time.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

But does all this make him a great athlete or a great figure or both. I think the term "great athlete" is ill defined and one could go many ways with it. A much more obvious question would be, "who is the best at any particular sport." I think the answers to this question are quite clear (Jordan, Gretzky , Tiger, possibly Federer...)But if one considers cultural impact, it's difficult to argue against people like the Babe and Ali. It's not just that they played the sport well, which they both obviously did, but they both changed the sport itself and the entire nation at the same time.

like I said, I think few boxing purests would rank Ali number one of all time. Top 10? Certainly. But not number 1. But like I said, I think greatest sportsman should transcend the sport itself. also, I think Jordan and Gretzky aren't the slam dunk all time greatest that you might think ( Wilt and Mario being the the prime rivals to the title, imo).

[Untilted 158]

Yes, heaven forbid African American's stop their false front, soft spoken, soft shoe for the white man. Heaven forbid an athlete have color, charisma and magnetism. Heaven forbid they be entertaining.

You have mistaken my criticism of Ali. Ali was about sensationilism and self premotion. He was also a renegade, he was outspoken and he spoke his mind which are all positive qualities. I love sports for the games and the drama of the games. I do not appreciate when an athlete thinks he is bigger than his team and his sport. I think Ali was a positive role model to the black athlete and to African American community as a whole but I also think he is an inspiration to athletes who celebrate themselves before their team. I would like to remember Ali for his talent, guts and comeback quality in the ring, not for his showmnaship.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You have mistaken my criticism of Ali. Ali was about sensationilism and self premotion. He was also a renegade, he was outspoken and he spoke his mind which are all positive qualities. I love sports for the games and the drama of the games. I do not appreciate when an athlete thinks he is bigger than his team and his sport. I think Ali was a positive role model to the black athlete and to African American community as a whole but I also think he is an inspiration to athletes who celebrate themselves before their team. I would like to remember Ali for his talent, guts and comeback quality in the ring, not for his showmnaship.

okay, okay okay, I'd buy that, maybe, if Ali was a QB or shooting guard or something.Ali was a boxer.There is no team.Ali fought the biggest toughest guys in the world, 1v1, and kicked their ass. Why is the "look at me" thing bad for Ali, when he's the only one there. And his showman ship allowed him and the people he boxed to make way more money than they otherwise would have, and it was a psychological tactic to rattle his opponents.Plus, it ain't braggin' if you can back it up. and Ali was bigger than his sport, btw.

[Balloon guy 158]

Andre the GiantGreatest Sports slash movie star

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Andre the GiantGreatest Sports slash movie star

I'll accept that answer.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Jordan > Woods > Montana

[runthemover 39]

Jordan > Woods > Montana

I agree with the first part. But, woods will pass him when his career is over.As for Montana, I know you're a niners fan (and I'm from the bay too) but he's not really that close to these guysthose guys are at the top of their respective sports for what they've done on and off the field. montana hasn't done nearly as much as them in both of those aspects.

[SlapStick 0]

Ali has to be up there in the top 2, James said success on and off the field, Ali was amazing on, and one of the most talented orators we've ever seen. The man went to prison champion, standing up for his beliefs. got stripped, then got out of a prison and won his championship back. Thats a hollywood producers wet dream. He made huge strides for his race, has to be in the top 2 of sportsman of the world.Ali at Harvard:"I realised all of you people here today are the future leaders of America and the world, the presidents, the judges the lawyers and I thought I have to do something special for all you future leaders. So i didn't bring no notes"how about top 3 and you're not allowed pick someone from your country..... Jordan nope.Woods no way, leave him for our younger generation.

[jmh06 0]

The only gripe I had with Ali was 'Nam. I don't care what fairy tale book you're reading from, if you're called to serve, you're called to serve. Other than that I have no beef with Ali. That said, many, many, many people that lived during that time cannot stand Ali because of how divisive a figure he was.Personally, I nominate Arnold Palmer. Palmer has done so much more for golf off the course than any other play ever can. He was eating brunch in the Carolina a few months ago getting inducted into the NC Sports Hall of Fame and I swear he couldn't get a bite of waffle down without someone stopping to talk. All the while he was as gracious as could be, always made conversation and was never rude. I can assure you, Tiger wouldn't have done that. I think Tiger is a great golfer, but once he's off the course a lot of the greatness is lost - which isn't a knock, Nicklaus was the same way.

[serge 904]

I have to go with Gretzky , Tiger and Ali...Only because Gretzky took the NHL to a newer level and made hockey popular in non traditional markets.Tiger Woods revolutinatized the game of golf and how its viewed..Took it out from the racist country clubs to the average man.Ali because he was the greatest ambassador and fighter ever the sport has seen.

[SlapStick 0]

The only gripe I had with Ali was 'Nam. I don't care what fairy tale book you're reading from, if you're called to serve, you're called to serve. Other than that I have no beef with Ali.

Fairy tale? when he was 18, a few days after he won his olympic medal, he wasn't allowed into a restaurant for being black.Would you want to die for that country?"Man, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong"No Viet Cong ever called me a ******"

[jmh06 0]

Fairy tale? when he was 18, a few days after he won his olympic medal, he wasn't allowed into a restaurant for being black.Would you want to die for that country?"Man, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong"No Viet Cong ever called me a ******"

I call all religious books fairy tales. Bible, Qu'ran, Dead Sea Scrolls or whatever.I don't disagree with his reasoning one bit; however, what about the white kids who didn't support that war yet had to go? What about the other black kids that had to go?A real leader would have gone to 'Nam and fought the inequality, both aimed at the Vietnamese and at the African Americans. Example: Joe Lewis did it during WWII. Joe was in the Services, but he wasn't on the lines. He was a celeb that visited bases and damned if every base he went to the segregated black section didn't improve by the time he left. Joe would make a few phone calls and that was that.Moral of the story: Lead by example, Cassius.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

The only gripe I had with Ali was 'Nam. I don't care what fairy tale book you're reading from, if you're called to serve, you're called to serve. Other than that I have no beef with Ali.

"No viet cong ever called me Nigger." That pretty much says it all right there. Ali, if he was in the army, wouldn't have been in combat. This wasn't like ww2, where Ted Williams was flying combat missions. Ali would have been a morale figure. They would have had him touring bases and doing USO stuff and just being the "Champ" putting on boxing exhibitions or what ever. He didn't refuse out of cowardice. He did it out of a principled belief that the war in vietnam was wrong. I don't know what fairy tale book you read from, but apparently it's one where blind, unwavering loyalty and service to your country is admirable. I think it's the mark of a fool, and I think that kind of blind, unwavering loyalty allows governments to do all kinds of evil in your name. Ali stood up to that evil, and refused to participate in it, and took responsibility for his convictions. It's not like Ali ran away to canada or something. He went to jail, he had his belt stripped from him. He paid a price for his beliefs.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I call all religious books fairy tales. Bible, Qu'ran, Dead Sea Scrolls or whatever.I don't disagree with his reasoning one bit; however, what about the white kids who didn't support that war yet had to go? What about the other black kids that had to go?A real leader would have gone to 'Nam and fought the inequality, both aimed at the Vietnamese and at the African Americans. Example: Joe Lewis did it during WWII. Joe was in the Services, but he wasn't on the lines. He was a celeb that visited bases and damned if every base he went to the segregated black section didn't improve by the time he left. Joe would make a few phone calls and that was that.Moral of the story: Lead by example, Cassius.

yeah, this just shows you're an *******. His name is Ali, and he did lead by example. He risked his life much more by not going than he would have if he'd went, by drawing the ire of a generation of rabidly racist and nationalistic whites. "go to vietnam and fight the inequality aimed at the vietnamese?" what inequality do you mean, the carpet bombs we dropped on their villages? are you for real? He thought the war itself was unjust, not the way the soldiers were treated was unjust. This wasn't about segregation. This wasn't about having to drink from a different fountain. This was about the US engaging in an illegal and immoral war, and sacrificing 10's of thousands of it's poor, a disproportionate amount of which were black, to fight this war.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I have to go with Gretzky , Tiger and Ali...Only because Gretzky took the NHL to a newer level and made hockey popular in non traditional markets.Tiger Woods revolutinatized the game of golf and how its viewed..Took it out from the racist country clubs to the average man.Ali because he was the greatest ambassador and fighter ever the sport has seen.

Gretzky Number one serge? really? LOL.

[jmh06 0]

yeah, this just shows you're an *******. His name is Ali, and he did lead by example. He risked his life much more by not going than he would have if he'd went, by drawing the ire of a generation of rabidly racist and nationalistic whites.

Ali converted to Islam, and took his stance against the racial inequality, far before the Vietnam war. He was interested in Islam dating as far back as his high school days and converted in 62 or 63. I have no problems with this. This is also what caught him in the racists ire, not 'Nam.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You've missed the point: Ali converted to Islam, and took his stance against the racial inequality, far before the Vietnam war. He was interested in Islam dating as far back as his high school days and converted in 62 or 63. I have no problems with this. This is also what caught him in the racists ire.I have no problem that Ali is African American and didn't serve in Vietnam. I have a problem with him being an American and not serving in Vietnam. Especially when so many others had no choice.

No no, I got your point loud and clear. My country, right or wrong. It's a sad philosophy that's been used to murder youth for 100's and 100's of years.Everyone who went to vietnam had the same choice Ali did. Go to jail or go to 'Nam. Or flee to canada, or many other things. People have choices, no matter what your blind nationalism requires. Some people might not have thought they had a choice, Ali showed them they did.

[jmh06 0]

I made an edit that's screwed your quote.I think it all boils down to I'm one of those that won't buck the system and Ali did. Hell, I should probably thank the guy because of the notice he brought to the draft and it's racial inequality, all of which was part of ending it.So essentially you've made me torn. While the nit in me doesn't like the fact he bucked the system, the intelligent person in me sees the changes that were made as a result.I guess he's list worthy, but I think Joe Lewis should go ahead of him.Joe got F*****D by this country and still loved her. His story is actually far worse than Ali's, IMO.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I made an edit that's screwed your quote.I think it all boils down to I'm one of those that won't buck the system and Ali did. Hell, I should probably thank the guy because of the notice he brought to the draft and it's racial inequality, all of which was part of ending it.So essentially you've made me torn. While the nit in me doesn't like the fact he bucked the system, the intelligent person in me sees the changes that were made as a result.I guess he's list worthy, but I think Joe Lewis should go ahead of him.Joe got F*****D by this country and still loved her. His story is actually far worse than Ali's, IMO.

I agree with this. I don't know enough about joe lewis to comment, one way or another.

[jmh06 0]

Joe Louis gave up the absolute prime of his career to serve. While he was serving, the government popped him for taxes. Personally, I don't remember the figures but there's a great HBO documentary out about it. We're not just talking 'popped for taxes.' Oddly enough, for 20 some years the money Joe owed kept going up and up, yet Joe was making as much as he ever was and turning 90% over to the boys in the suits. At one point, they even raided the box office before his fight and took every cent of Joe Louis' cut of the purse.Through it all Louis kept trying harder and harder to pay the money back. He never griped, complained or anything, just kept trying to pay it off. It got so bad he and one of his wives appeared on a gameshow and the announcer went, "LET'S SEE WHICH FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION IS STIIIIILLLLLLL TRYING TO PAY OFF THOSE TAXES! Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Louis!!!"Sad. Really, really sad. Again, I can't give every detail but that's the synopsis.

[SlapStick 0]

I guess describing George Best to Americans who don't know him, you could thinly compare him to the same way Jordan apparently revolutinised basketball(I took that from here, I know nothing about it)He was a gift, something noone in the football world had ever seen or will seen again, due to his amazing skills, his alcohol problem and the fact he could never perform in the World Cup as his country Northern Ireland didn't qualify.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I guess describing George Best to Americans who don't know him, you could thinly compare him to the same way Jordan apparently revolutinised basketball(I took that from here, I know nothing about it)He was a gift, something noone in the football world had ever seen or will seen again, due to his amazing skills, his alcohol problem and the fact he could never perform in the World Cup as his country Northern Ireland didn't qualify.

He's the guy Brits will maintain was better than pele and Maradona.EDIT My god, that was an impressive video! That's the first Best highlight reel I've watched. I think him not playing in a world cup hurt his overall regard. And me personally, I don't think I'll ever see a player more impressive than maradona, but that was some fantastic stuff right there.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Sandy KoufaxFor a five year span Sandy Koufax had the lowest E.R.A in baseball for all those five years also he won the pitching triple-crown(E.R.A,strikeouts, and wins) 3 times.he had the single season strikeout record before nolan ryan broke it with one and in four straight years he had a no-hitter and one was a perfect game.