Jadaki 0 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I mean I guess you could say they shut them down completely. I watched the whole game....it was more like Ray Allen missed a lot of open jumpers.You cannot win the Western Conference playing a zone. I dont care how smart Dantoni is (and for the record, I think he is damn smart) the Suns still have glaring defensive issues that got WORSE not better with the Shaq trade.They are rebounding significantly better and blocking more shots. Pierce wasn't getting open looks at all, and Ray didn't have a ton of wide open looks either. The few he did have he rushed. Their defense looked good to me and seeing Shaq actually do more than just go sit on a block and eat cupcakes was shocking. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I mean I guess you could say they shut them down completely. I watched the whole game....it was more like Ray Allen missed a lot of open jumpers.You cannot win the Western Conference playing a zone. I dont care how smart Dantoni is (and for the record, I think he is damn smart) the Suns still have glaring defensive issues that got WORSE not better with the Shaq trade. So you just ignore performance and stats altogether then? Interesting. I suppose we have that in common, except I do it with religion. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 This Pistons Suns game is quite entertaining! Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy_Hillis 11 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 This Pistons Suns game is quite entertaining!I concur. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 So you just ignore performance and stats altogether then? Interesting. I suppose we have that in common, except I do it with religion.I absolutely ignore stats from TWO games. Even a religious person can understand the concept of sample size. With that said, I will not make any rash judgments off Phoenix getting obliterated at home by Detroit today (including looking absolutely lost on the defensive end). I do stand by my thinking that this will make them worse defensively long term and that the Heat got a huge break for their rebuilding effort with that trade. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Instead of bickering on who's better than whom, I think it is far better to point out that there is now officially 8 teams in the friggin West who can beat *anyone* in a 7 game playoff series.It's gonna be war come playoff time. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 What a shitty game. Nash sucked big time. Have the Heat won a game with Marion yet? Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 What a shitty game. Nash sucked big time. Have the Heat won a game with Marion yet?No but we already knew the Suns were better than the Heat. and the Heat's problems go way beyond a quick fix. They have taken two teams to overtime (including the nuggets) which is progress. If your goal is to win more than the heat, congrats you win. Give me a call some time I will tell you what winning an NBA championship feels like. (hint: good)You were wise to ignore my sample size comment. And Nash was not the only member of Phoenix who played poorly in that game (Raja played some uncharacteristically porous D and I am still mystified by how Diaw is not a better player.....he plays like a girl) Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I absolutely ignore stats from TWO games. Even a religious person can understand the concept of sample size. With that said, I will not make any rash judgments off Phoenix getting obliterated at home by Detroit today (including looking absolutely lost on the defensive end). I do stand by my thinking that this will make them worse defensively long term and that the Heat got a huge break for their rebuilding effort with that trade. This isn't about long term, it's about championship now. It wasn't happening with Marion. He is a garbage player. Meaning, empty stats- what he got other players will just spread around. Nobody was worried about stopping Shawn Marion. Ever. Sure he could guard Tim Duncan in a pinch.... was it ever effective? No. the Spurs still beat us. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 This isn't about long term, it's about championship now. It wasn't happening with Marion. He is a garbage player. Meaning, empty stats- what he got other players will just spread around. Nobody was worried about stopping Shawn Marion. Ever. Sure he could guard Tim Duncan in a pinch.... was it ever effective? No. the Spurs still beat us.Ah I see. I said something very vague and that is my fault. When I said long term, I meant this year's playoffs. That was worded poorly my bad.Also, having watched Marion for 4 games.....I kinda see what you mean. He cant create for himself and disappears offensively for huge stretches. I still think you underestimate how good he was on the suns (the perfect team for his skills) and how good he was defensively. While he has been an offensive disappointment on the Heat, he has also been a rebounding force and guarded the other team's best player almost every night. You will miss that defense at some point, for sure.I guess my point is that you are right the Suns had to do something and try to win now. I just think they made the wrong trade and got suckered by Shaq's mystique. They should have made a different trade.....they could have gotten more for a guy who rebounds like a maniac, can guard all five positions, and finishes on the fast break (and hits a 3 every now and then). And when they got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs I will look smart. Or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't get why you two are arguing anyway. Both teams made out in this deal really. The Heat's upside is obvious, the Suns might be less so but everyone knows Marion wasn't happy there so he was gone ASAP. That wasn't going to be good for the Suns so why not roll the dice on Shaq. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't get why you two are arguing anyway. Both teams made out in this deal really. The Heat's upside is obvious, the Suns might be less so but everyone knows Marion wasn't happy there so he was gone ASAP. That wasn't going to be good for the Suns so why not roll the dice on Shaq.made my point earlier but I will re-iterate.....I think the Suns could have done better. If they had to trade Marion, and at this point I am willing to allow that they had to, they could have gotten more. shaq was a mistake.oh and we are arguing because it is fun.....I also have NBA league pass and watch the suns religiously and I was disappointed to see them break up the team and bring in a guy (shaq) who in my opinion dogged it the entire year in Miami because he was unhappy. Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I also have NBA league pass and watch the suns religiously and I was disappointed to see them break up the team and bring in a guy (shaq) who in my opinion dogged it the entire year in Miami because he was unhappy.A little bit of disgruntled Heat fan.If I was you I would be pretty happy actually, won a title with Shaq then dumped his two years/40 mil, and now actually have some pieces to build on and room to maneuver if management doesn't screw it up. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 A little bit of disgruntled Heat fan.If I was you I would be pretty happy actually, won a title with Shaq then dumped his two years/40 mil, and now actually have some pieces to build on and room to maneuver if management doesn't screw it up.Agree completely. I could not be happier about the way things turned out. Wade/Butler/Odom would have been fun to watch but they never would have won a title. Then, they made a great trade to Phoenix (irregardless of how well it works out for the Suns) to restore financial flexibility AND they have been really bad this year (which is better than being sort of bad in the NBA) which means they should have a great shot at pairing Wade with Derrick Rose or Michael Beasley. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 great comment (from ESPN chat) about all this speculative nonsense that Shaq's mere presence helps Amare so much:Amare S. (Phoenix): Will I be able to make another basket or grab another rebound this year without every announcer giving credit to Shaq for "opening" things up?SportsNation John Hollinger: (3:41 PM ET ) No. Nor will anyone on the Mavs be able to make a good pass without being cited as an example of Jason Kidd rubbing off on them. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Ah I see. I said something very vague and that is my fault. When I said long term, I meant this year's playoffs. That was worded poorly my bad.Also, having watched Marion for 4 games.....I kinda see what you mean. He cant create for himself and disappears offensively for huge stretches. I still think you underestimate how good he was on the suns (the perfect team for his skills) and how good he was defensively. While he has been an offensive disappointment on the Heat, he has also been a rebounding force and guarded the other team's best player almost every night. You will miss that defense at some point, for sure.I guess my point is that you are right the Suns had to do something and try to win now. I just think they made the wrong trade and got suckered by Shaq's mystique. They should have made a different trade.....they could have gotten more for a guy who rebounds like a maniac, can guard all five positions, and finishes on the fast break (and hits a 3 every now and then). And when they got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs I will look smart. Or not. The Suns were absolutely the perfect team for Marion. It's a shame he is ended up being just another guy who wanted the spotlight. I think it's awesome on some level that the Suns did that, a big f u if you will. From a leader in the west to the basement in the East. Go be a number two and lose 12 games in a row Ha, ha, ******. If you look at Steve Kerr he knows all about knowing your role. He was surrounded by guys that did that in Chicago. Marion is a good player but he lacks the greatness of a Pippen, second fiddle nearly his whole career, and if you remember back then it ****ing killed him, he wanted to be the number one so bad but he didn't play the malcontent, he just played and played some more. BTW, huge Suns fan. I remember being in one of my first apartments praying in front of the T.V. that last game in the finals vs. the Bulls. Suns have came so close and it just kills to watch. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 the more I watch Marion the more of a puzzle he is. clearly, he is a me-first kind of player who hated being third fiddle and stupidly forced Phoenix to trade him. And yet, on the court, he could not be more of an unselfish, team player. Very odd.Oh and Phoenix moves to 2-4 with Shaq with a HOME loss to PHILLY. I hope Steve Kerr likes working in television...... Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 the more I watch Marion the more of a puzzle he is. clearly, he is a me-first kind of player who hated being third fiddle and stupidly forced Phoenix to trade him. And yet, on the court, he could not be more of an unselfish, team player. Very odd.Oh and Phoenix moves to 2-4 with Shaq with a HOME loss to PHILLY. I hope Steve Kerr likes working in television...... Just wait. The team isn't worried for good reason. This reminds me of Dirk Diggler. It wasn't that he couldn't **** anymore, he just needed to relax, a little zen, a little less coke. Sort of like what the Suns are doing. Championship year. Watch. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Just wait. The team isn't worried for good reason. This reminds me of Dirk Diggler. It wasn't that he couldn't **** anymore, he just needed to relax, a little zen, a little less coke. Sort of like what the Suns are doing. Championship year. Watch.I honestly hope you are right. I like the Suns I like Nash and I hate the Lakers and Spurs.but, I just....dont...see it. Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Just wait. The team isn't worried for good reason. This reminds me of Dirk Diggler. It wasn't that he couldn't **** anymore, he just needed to relax, a little zen, a little less coke. Sort of like what the Suns are doing. Championship year. Watch.Did you just compare the suns to a make believe porn star...thats awesome Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Did you just compare the suns to a make believe porn star...thats awesomeThe big dirk? The big diggler? I don't even want to think about shaq's endowment Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy_Hillis 11 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 a little zenSorry, we got that too. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Did you just compare the suns to a make believe porn star...thats awesome Huge fan of the Diggler. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 some classic Bill Simmons on the Shaq trade:Q: Why do I have the feeling that I'm about six weeks away from wandering the streets of San Diego wearing a Ron Burgundy beard and drinking hot milk out of a carton?--S. Kerr, PhoenixSG: Settle down, it's only been two weeks! You can't expect the guys to adjust to Shaq that quickly, and you knew you'd miss Marion a little defensively. Give it some time. You won in Portland Tuesday night, right?Q: I don't get it. We run the high screen, I get into the paint, I'm going for a layup and then Shaq's guy comes over and I end up throwing the ball off someone's face. Next time down, we run the high screen, I feed Amare for one of his runaway train dunks, and then Shaq's guy comes over and takes the charge. Then we move Shaq 15 feet away from the basket to give us space, but his guy realizes immediately that Shaq can't shoot, so he just stands under the rim and gets in our way. What the hell do we do? How do we solve this? My head hurts.--S. Nash, PhoenixSG: (Scratching my head, unable to come up with a response.)Q: I'll ask you again: Why do I have the feeling that I'm about six weeks away from wandering the streets of San Diego wearing a Ron Burgundy beard and drinking hot milk out of a carton?--S. Kerr, PhoenixSG: (Wincing.) Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Hollinger Article on the Shaq "Failed Experiment"Not sure how much longer this will be a free preview, but an *amazing* read. Link to post Share on other sites
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