New Challenge ( Tourney Style )

[silkyjonson 1]

FT of Bodog 10k 2/6

[JesseW316 0]

hi guys, I'm officially in this thread.

[Gallo 1]

Fold or call? We are on the bubble as well.PokerStars Game #15728288601: Tournament #79601662, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2008/03/04 - 02:31:26 (ET)Table '79601662 7' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: H8ERSNV (9750 in chips) Seat 2: rydewithme (5298 in chips) Seat 3: GalloFX (22306 in chips) Seat 4: cjordan83 (17288 in chips) Seat 5: flsaqueen (8842 in chips) Seat 7: kid_psionic (32651 in chips) H8ERSNV: posts the ante 75rydewithme: posts the ante 75GalloFX: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts the ante 75flsaqueen: posts the ante 75kid_psionic: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts small blind 400flsaqueen: posts big blind 800*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [Ad 9h]kid_psionic: folds H8ERSNV: folds rydewithme: folds GalloFX: raises 1200 to 2000cjordan83: folds flsaqueen: raises 6767 to 8767 and is all-in

how has the guy been playing? has he been reshoving a lot, or has he been trying to sneak into the money? how have you been playing? how often have you been raising in LP? how active is the SB? what kind of reshove range do you put him on? it's never as easy as call/fold, there are so many dynamics that go into the hand that you need to think about in making your decision.

I've actually played tight and have shown down good hands. This player was shortstack and had shoved a few times, nothing really premium from what I remember. I have not really been stealing from the button that much. But the player was somewhat new to the table. As far as range goes, I put him on somewhat of a wide range, so it doesn't necessarily mean that they have hi pocket pair or AK something along those lines. I'm thinking that this player has put me on a somewhat wide range since it is the bubble and I am in a stealing position.So, if my thinking is that I am in a possible race situation and there is a little over 12,000 in the pot, I'd be getting about 2:1 odds no?

[terradawg 0]

ok tourney donks, some advice on a hand i just played in the full tilt 11.5k guarantee. hero is 10/45 left. top 54 cash so we are in the money. no reads on villain. Blinds 600/1200villain is UTG+1 with 32,000hero is UTG +2 with 45,000hero is dealt AKovillain raises to 3,100hero raises to 9,000villain callsFlop: A72 rainbowvillain bets pot. hero?

[SpeedKills 0]

ok tourney donks, some advice on a hand i just played in the full tilt 11.5k guarantee. hero is 10/45 left. top 54 cash so we are in the money. no reads on villain. Blinds 600/1200villain is UTG+1 with 32,000hero is UTG +2 with 45,000hero is dealt AKovillain raises to 3,100hero raises to 9,000villain callsFlop: A72 rainbowvillain bets pot. hero?

With the villan betting about 20k on flop that leaves him 3k behind? Anyways I think it is a pretty standard shove if stack sizes are correct. I think it is A10-AQ a good amount of time or someone hoping you dont have an ace.

[terradawg 0]

i thought the exact same. does anyone ever fold here?

[cubsfan44 0]

ok tourney donks, some advice on a hand i just played in the full tilt 11.5k guarantee. hero is 10/45 left. top 54 cash so we are in the money. no reads on villain. Blinds 600/1200villain is UTG+1 with 32,000hero is UTG +2 with 45,000hero is dealt AKovillain raises to 3,100hero raises to 9,000villain callsFlop: A72 rainbowvillain bets pot. hero?

Im confuzzled how is that anything but completely standard?

[terradawg 0]

i agree it is standard. obv he flipped over 77. just wondering if anyone can find a fold there. i go broke there every time.

[Gallo 1]

i agree it is standard. obv he flipped over 77. just wondering if anyone can find a fold there. i go broke there every time.

My question is does anyone think that maybe Hero should raise more PF? I mean, I know with that flop I'm also going broke, but could anything have been done PF, other than going all in? Is Hero's r/r fine?

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

My question is does anyone think that maybe Hero should raise more PF? I mean, I know with that flop I'm also going broke, but could anything have been done PF, other than going all in? Is Hero's r/r fine?

i doubt the guy is folding 77 for any amount of money there heads up, especially with only 25bb

[jjgoldy5 0]

Fold or call? We are on the bubble as well.PokerStars Game #15728288601: Tournament #79601662, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2008/03/04 - 02:31:26 (ET)Table '79601662 7' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: H8ERSNV (9750 in chips) Seat 2: rydewithme (5298 in chips) Seat 3: GalloFX (22306 in chips) Seat 4: cjordan83 (17288 in chips) Seat 5: flsaqueen (8842 in chips) Seat 7: kid_psionic (32651 in chips) H8ERSNV: posts the ante 75rydewithme: posts the ante 75GalloFX: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts the ante 75flsaqueen: posts the ante 75kid_psionic: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts small blind 400flsaqueen: posts big blind 800*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [Ad 9h]kid_psionic: folds H8ERSNV: folds rydewithme: folds GalloFX: raises 1200 to 2000cjordan83: folds flsaqueen: raises 6767 to 8767 and is all-in

Fold, on the bubble, they have to have a strong hand

[silkyjonson 1]

My question is does anyone think that maybe Hero should raise more PF? I mean, I know with that flop I'm also going broke, but could anything have been done PF, other than going all in? Is Hero's r/r fine?

I think anything 3x his raise and above is usually good. If your uncomfortable playing postflop then raise like 4x or more up to shoving. I suppose you could shove here, but unless you are shoving QQ+ then I would'nt shove.

[jjgoldy5 0]

Well this was fun.Full Tilt Poker Game #5500714125: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (41740012), Table 29 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:55:58 ET - 2008/03/04Seat 1: hongkong31 (57,353)Seat 2: granny_1934 (130,859)Seat 3: JTmoney2626 (64,273)Seat 5: RichardMcBeef90 (57,050)Seat 6: DavveA (129,863)Seat 7: Kyler XY (68,611)Seat 8: oneeyedpat (9,040), is sitting outSeat 9: soxspurs2005 (30,740)hongkong31 antes 300granny_1934 antes 300JTmoney2626 antes 300RichardMcBeef90 antes 300DavveA antes 300Kyler XY antes 300oneeyedpat antes 300soxspurs2005 antes 300oneeyedpat posts the small blind of 1,200soxspurs2005 posts the big blind of 2,400The button is in seat #7*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to RichardMcBeef90 [Ac Qc]hongkong31 foldsgranny_1934 foldsJTmoney2626 foldsRichardMcBeef90 raises to 56,750, and is all inDavveA foldsKyler XY raises to 68,311, and is all inoneeyedpat foldssoxspurs2005 foldsKyler XY shows [Jh Ah]RichardMcBeef90 shows [Ac Qc]Uncalled bet of 11,561 returned to Kyler XY*** FLOP *** [6s 7d 3d]*** TURN *** [6s 7d 3d] [Jc]*** RIVER *** [6s 7d 3d Jc] [7c]Kyler XY shows two pair, Jacks and SevensRichardMcBeef90 shows a pair of SevensKyler XY wins the pot (119,500) with two pair, Jacks and SevensRichardMcBeef90 stands up*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 119,500 | Rake 0Board: [6s 7d 3d Jc 7c]Seat 1: hongkong31 folded before the FlopSeat 2: granny_1934 folded before the FlopSeat 3: JTmoney2626 folded before the FlopSeat 5: RichardMcBeef90 showed [Ac Qc] and lost with a pair of SevensSeat 6: DavveA folded before the FlopSeat 7: Kyler XY (button) showed [Jh Ah] and won (119,500) with two pair, Jacks and SevensSeat 8: oneeyedpat (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 9: soxspurs2005 (big blind) folded before the Flop

I guess I really don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. Blasting in MP for 24ish BBs with AQs can't be a winning play. You got lucky here that a weaker hand called you, but I like a standard raise here. Way too deep to be open shoving a hand like this imo.Raising and then calling a shoves gives weaker hands a chance to get themselves into trouble.

[terradawg 0]

I think anything 3x his raise and above is usually good. If your uncomfortable playing postflop then raise like 4x or more up to shoving. I suppose you could shove here, but unless you are shoving QQ+ then I would'nt shove.

i think that was the biggest question for the whole hand. if i shove does he call? i would guess no, but i think that he calls 4x easily and i get the same result. so the only option to give me a chance in this particular hand is shove and hope he folds. if i had to play it over again i don't think i would change anything except maybe making a little big bigger of a preflop raise but even that is not a definite thing i should change. agree?it's basically a cooler once we see a flop. get it in and move on to the next one...

[jjgoldy5 0]

My question is does anyone think that maybe Hero should raise more PF? I mean, I know with that flop I'm also going broke, but could anything have been done PF, other than going all in? Is Hero's r/r fine?

I like the way the hand was played. Raising a lot more preflop telegraphs the hand whereas, the way it was played it could be a lot of (very strong) hands. Think about how you would play this hand if it were AA or KK... you wouldn't be making some enormous rasie. Basically, we got what we wanted, 77 can't continue with this hand without flopping a set in most cases.

[silkyjonson 1]

Fold or call? We are on the bubble as well.PokerStars Game #15728288601: Tournament #79601662, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2008/03/04 - 02:31:26 (ET)Table '79601662 7' 9-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: H8ERSNV (9750 in chips) Seat 2: rydewithme (5298 in chips) Seat 3: GalloFX (22306 in chips) Seat 4: cjordan83 (17288 in chips) Seat 5: flsaqueen (8842 in chips) Seat 7: kid_psionic (32651 in chips) H8ERSNV: posts the ante 75rydewithme: posts the ante 75GalloFX: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts the ante 75flsaqueen: posts the ante 75kid_psionic: posts the ante 75cjordan83: posts small blind 400flsaqueen: posts big blind 800*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [Ad 9h]kid_psionic: folds H8ERSNV: folds rydewithme: folds GalloFX: raises 1200 to 2000cjordan83: folds flsaqueen: raises 6767 to 8767 and is all-in

You are getting roughly 2-1 right? Obviously you are behind but getting these odds I probably call and hope to suck out and build a huge stack that you can abuse the bubble with even more.

[jjgoldy5 0]

You are getting roughly 2-1 right? Obviously you are behind but getting these odds I probably call and hope to suck out and build a huge stack that you can abuse the bubble with even more.

My argument is that A9 is absolutely smashed by the range of a guy who is shoving in on the bubble (and doesnt need to) into a stack he doesnt think he's getting to fold much. Not to mention if you win the hand there is no bubble to abuse anymore.

[Gallo 1]

My argument is that A9 is absolutely smashed by the range of a guy who is shoving in on the bubble (and doesnt need to) into a stack he doesnt think he's getting to fold much. Not to mention if you win the hand there is no bubble to abuse anymore.

I definitely see your point here. And I will definitely think about this the next time. But also as Silky said I would have a nice stack if I do win.

[jjgoldy5 0]

I definitely see your point here. And I will definitely think about this the next time. But also as Silky said I would have a nice stack if I do win.

You have a nice stack now.Ask yourself... what hands would I do this with (putting yourself in villains shoes) on the tourney bubble when I could easily fold and take a conservative approach?I think he shows up with hands that have you drawing to 3 outs like 90% of the time here.Abusing the bubble = raising wide, but folding when you catch resistance from someone who HAS to have a hand to play back at you imo. There are hands to call reshoves with, but A9 plays so bad against his reshoving range here, so I think a fold is optimal.So what'd he have?

[Sheiky 0]

I guess I really don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. Blasting in MP for 24ish BBs with AQs can't be a winning play. You got lucky here that a weaker hand called you, but I like a standard raise here. Way too deep to be open shoving a hand like this imo.Raising and then calling a shoves gives weaker hands a chance to get themselves into trouble.

The reason i shoved here is because i'd open shoved the last 4 hands and not been called (which about doubled my stack) getting AQ here is a dream because i know given the previous action i'm going to get called by worse often, i acctualy think he made the right call here which you can't often say about calling all in with AJ.

[silkyjonson 1]

I definitely see your point here. And I will definitely think about this the next time. But also as Silky said I would have a nice stack if I do win.

There are lots of times in tourneys where while you are raising light you get shoved on and are getting great odds, although most of the time they are going to have a hand here, there are still people out there that will make this move with kT and any pair. Also it depends on how this guy is playing, has he shoved a couple times, if he has'nt played anything at all and you know this guy's range is like QQ+ AK then maybe I could fold here but your getting slightly better than 2-1 and will not be knocked out, if you lose this hand your still in the tourney but winning hands like this are what wins tourneys because you will have a large enough stack that you can abuse at will and not fear shorties.

[jjgoldy5 0]

There are lots of times in tourneys where while you are raising light you get shoved on and are getting great odds, although most of the time they are going to have a hand here, there are still people out there that will make this move with kT and any pair. Also it depends on how this guy is playing, has he shoved a couple times, if he has'nt played anything at all and you know this guy's range is like QQ+ AK then maybe I could fold here but your getting slightly better than 2-1 and will not be knocked out, if you lose this hand your still in the tourney but winning hands like this are what wins tourneys because you will have a large enough stack that you can abuse at will and not fear shorties.

Normally I agree.However this is THE bubble. If this guy loses this hand he makes $0. Taking that into account as a huge factor in narrowing his range, this is a fold for me.

[Gallo 1]

You have a nice stack now.Ask yourself... what hands would I do this with (putting yourself in villains shoes) on the tourney bubble when I could easily fold and take a conservative approach?I think he shows up with hands that have you drawing to 3 outs like 90% of the time here.Abusing the bubble = raising wide, but folding when you catch resistance from someone who HAS to have a hand to play back at you imo. There are hands to call reshoves with, but A9 plays so bad against his reshoving range here, so I think a fold is optimal.So what'd he have?

55. I hit the A, he rivered a 5.I called for 2 reasons:1. Odds2. I put him on a wider range because of the fact that I was on the button and it was a stealing position, so I figured that he could be shoving any 2 face, medium to high pocket pair. I didn't necessarily put him on a big hand. Maybe I was just trying to convince myself that he didn't have a huge hand, given the odds.

[jjgoldy5 0]

55. I hit the A, he rivered a 5.I called for 2 reasons:1. Odds2. I put him on a wider range because of the fact that I was on the button and it was a stealing position, so I figured that he could be shoving any 2 face, medium to high pocket pair. I didn't necessarily put him on a big hand. Maybe I was just trying to convince myself that he didn't have a huge hand, given the odds.

BS river.. you run like me.In any case, thats a pretty light shove on the bubble. If you had a read that he is the type of player that is shoving wide here, then your call is fine. Just in general, a reshove on the bubble from a player who has a stack securely in the money is generally very strong.

[Gallo 1]

BS river.. you run like me.In any case, thats a pretty light shove on the bubble. If you had a read that he is the type of player that is shoving wide here, then your call is fine. Just in general, a reshove on the bubble from a player who has a stack securely in the money is generally very strong.

ThanxJust an fyi, in 2 consecutive hands after this one, there were similar races and each time the Ax hit on the flop and the pocket pair hit a set on the river. 3 consecutive hands in a row.