troyomac 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Nowhere near the money or anything... is this the standard right now? I hate open shoving with 20bbs but I also hate raise/calling because I'm flipping at best, raise folding sucks because I have a good stack size for people to 3 bet shove against, giving hands like KQ, or weak A's the chance to do that. So if I'm going to call a shove (which I probably am going to) shoving is just better to get weak hands to fold that I don't want to flip with, and if they have a pair the money was going in anyway right? Is my thinking out of line or good here?Full Tilt Poker Game #11841414870: $75,000 Guarantee (87866363), Table 38 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:16:37 ET - 2009/04/23Seat 1: Albinoalligator (9,558)Seat 2: RJules (6,685)Seat 3: GrindedDown (4,245)Seat 4: TheGfactor33 (3,390)Seat 5: troyomac (4,880)Seat 6: siggien (13,310)Seat 7: GoldRice (3,982)Seat 8: DLizzle (13,555)Seat 9: TexasGretzky (3,777)Albinoalligator antes 25RJules antes 25GrindedDown antes 25TheGfactor33 antes 25troyomac antes 25siggien antes 25GoldRice antes 25DLizzle antes 25TexasGretzky antes 25siggien posts the small blind of 120GoldRice posts the big blind of 240The button is in seat #5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to troyomac [2c 2h]DLizzle foldsTexasGretzky foldsAlbinoalligator foldsRJules foldsGrindedDown foldsTheGfactor33 foldstroyomac raises to 4,855, and is all in Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Fold should be in the equation as well no? We still have enough chips that we are not in the danger zone, so you don't have to commit to anything. Any reads on players left to act? Link to post Share on other sites
The Phoenix 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Nowhere near the money or anything... is this the standard right now? I hate open shoving with 20bbs but I also hate raise/calling because I'm flipping at best, raise folding sucks because I have a good stack size for people to 3 bet shove against, giving hands like KQ, or weak A's the chance to do that. So if I'm going to call a shove (which I probably am going to) shoving is just better to get weak hands to fold that I don't want to flip with, and if they have a pair the money was going in anyway right? Is my thinking out of line or good here?Full Tilt Poker Game #11841414870: $75,000 Guarantee (87866363), Table 38 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:16:37 ET - 2009/04/23Seat 1: Albinoalligator (9,558)Seat 2: RJules (6,685)Seat 3: GrindedDown (4,245)Seat 4: TheGfactor33 (3,390)Seat 5: troyomac (4,880)Seat 6: siggien (13,310)Seat 7: GoldRice (3,982)Seat 8: DLizzle (13,555)Seat 9: TexasGretzky (3,777)Albinoalligator antes 25RJules antes 25GrindedDown antes 25TheGfactor33 antes 25troyomac antes 25siggien antes 25GoldRice antes 25DLizzle antes 25TexasGretzky antes 25siggien posts the small blind of 120GoldRice posts the big blind of 240The button is in seat #5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to troyomac [2c 2h]DLizzle foldsTexasGretzky foldsAlbinoalligator foldsRJules foldsGrindedDown foldsTheGfactor33 foldstroyomac raises to 4,855, and is all inI think your thinking is bang on. I shove in this spot in most situations. I'd like a read on the blinds so that I have a decent understanding of their calling range, but my default play is shove. Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 No reads, I generally don't pay much attention until there's like 4 or 5 tables left. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Shoving is probably unexploitable and seems better than any of the other options. Raise/call seems kinda bad. I guess on a very tight table raise/fold could be decent.If people are actually noticing you may have difficulty with balancing your range if you shove only say low pairs here. Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 So, I've been trying to work on picking good spots to pick up chips instead of just fold fold folding looking for double ups, I realize I haven't gone deep in much lately because I've been horrible at accumulating. I'm curious to see if this was a well played hand...no real reads, I just always think donk bets are weak.Full Tilt Poker Game #11839387969: $33,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (87931037), Table 9 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:02:26 ET - 2009/04/23Seat 1: dumbdonk88 (4,530)Seat 2: 3footputt (4,330)Seat 3: Atlpoker75 (2,670)Seat 4: D_T2001 (5,350)Seat 6: troyomac (7,120)Atlpoker75 posts the small blind of 20D_T2001 posts the big blind of 40The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to troyomac [Qc Kh]troyomac raises to 120dumbdonk88 folds3footputt foldsAtlpoker75 foldsD_T2001 calls 80*** FLOP *** [9c 6s Jd]D_T2001 checkstroyomac bets 160D_T2001 calls 160*** TURN *** [9c 6s Jd] [8d]D_T2001 bets 240troyomac calls 240*** RIVER *** [9c 6s Jd 8d] [6h]D_T2001 bets 520troyomac raises to 1,440 Link to post Share on other sites
The Phoenix 0 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 So, I've been trying to work on picking good spots to pick up chips instead of just fold fold folding looking for double ups, I realize I haven't gone deep in much lately because I've been horrible at accumulating. I'm curious to see if this was a well played hand...no real reads, I just always think donk bets are weak.Full Tilt Poker Game #11839387969: $33,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (87931037), Table 9 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:02:26 ET - 2009/04/23Seat 1: dumbdonk88 (4,530)Seat 2: 3footputt (4,330)Seat 3: Atlpoker75 (2,670)Seat 4: D_T2001 (5,350)Seat 6: troyomac (7,120)Atlpoker75 posts the small blind of 20D_T2001 posts the big blind of 40The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to troyomac [Qc Kh]troyomac raises to 120dumbdonk88 folds3footputt foldsAtlpoker75 foldsD_T2001 calls 80*** FLOP *** [9c 6s Jd]D_T2001 checkstroyomac bets 160D_T2001 calls 160*** TURN *** [9c 6s Jd] [8d]D_T2001 bets 240troyomac calls 240*** RIVER *** [9c 6s Jd 8d] [6h]D_T2001 bets 520troyomac raises to 1,440I don't like it. I agree that donk bets are almost always weak but I wouldn't classify this as a donk bet situation. He 1/2 pots turn and river. If he had check called flop and turn and then led river its more of a nuts or air situation. Here I think he likes his hand to some degree. The only bluff situation I see here is he turned a flush draw, led it, missed and bluffed river. Otherwise I think he's betting for value. You could make him fold some hands but without a read I don't like it. If the villain is some station you are just spewing chips away. Having said all that, I'm not exactly the greatest postflop player in the world, so I may be way off.I wanted to reply about your apparent chip accumulation problems. I'd be careful not to overreact. It may just be a variance issue. You may not be getting paid off with your big hands or you may not be making your share of hands. Are you really passing up edges? From what I know about your game I don't think so. You need to be careful you don't start trying to force things because its a slippery slope and you can create bigger leaks. Generally I don't think you have to try to outplay people postflop in the early levels to accumulate. People are going to give you chips. If you try to force things you are most likely going to start spewing badly. You said something in an earlier post about not paying attention to reads until the last few tables. We all multitable so its tough to get great reads but if you want to accumulate better in the early going, just look out for the player that is limping into a lot of pots and playing big pots with marginal hands. Then play some hands in position against said player with hands that play well postflop. If you hit you're likely to get paid off. I think you can afford to be patient until the antes kick in. There is no need to force anything until then. If you are passing up clear edges that's a different story, but I think that's unlikely. Personally, I am accumulating better than I ever have (over a 5month stretch continuously) and its because of my pokerstove/pot odds work. At the same time I'm going through a long breakeven stretch ( and its incredibly frustrating and hard to stay positive and not lose confidence. I know I'm playing well though and I know I'm going to break through for a big score/run of success soon. Tournament poker is tough because in a matter of days you can have the utmost confidence in your game and then be full of doubt. Alot of of times its nothing more than the run of cards. If your inability to accumulate continues maybe you should start looking for leaks but until then be wary of fancy play syndrome creeping into your game and causing much bigger problems. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 shove the 2's.dont have a comment on the KQ hand. Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I don't like it. I agree that donk bets are almost always weak but I wouldn't classify this as a donk bet situation. He 1/2 pots turn and river. If he had check called flop and turn and then led river its more of a nuts or air situation. Here I think he likes his hand to some degree. The only bluff situation I see here is he turned a flush draw, led it, missed and bluffed river. Otherwise I think he's betting for value. You could make him fold some hands but without a read I don't like it. If the villain is some station you are just spewing chips away. Having said all that, I'm not exactly the greatest postflop player in the world, so I may be way off.I wanted to reply about your apparent chip accumulation problems. I'd be careful not to overreact. It may just be a variance issue. You may not be getting paid off with your big hands or you may not be making your share of hands. Are you really passing up edges? From what I know about your game I don't think so. You need to be careful you don't start trying to force things because its a slippery slope and you can create bigger leaks. Generally I don't think you have to try to outplay people postflop in the early levels to accumulate. People are going to give you chips. If you try to force things you are most likely going to start spewing badly. You said something in an earlier post about not paying attention to reads until the last few tables. We all multitable so its tough to get great reads but if you want to accumulate better in the early going, just look out for the player that is limping into a lot of pots and playing big pots with marginal hands. Then play some hands in position against said player with hands that play well postflop. If you hit you're likely to get paid off. I think you can afford to be patient until the antes kick in. There is no need to force anything until then. If you are passing up clear edges that's a different story, but I think that's unlikely. Personally, I am accumulating better than I ever have (over a 5month stretch continuously) and its because of my pokerstove/pot odds work. At the same time I'm going through a long breakeven stretch ( and its incredibly frustrating and hard to stay positive and not lose confidence. I know I'm playing well though and I know I'm going to break through for a big score/run of success soon. Tournament poker is tough because in a matter of days you can have the utmost confidence in your game and then be full of doubt. Alot of of times its nothing more than the run of cards. If your inability to accumulate continues maybe you should start looking for leaks but until then be wary of fancy play syndrome creeping into your game and causing much bigger problems.Yeah I think I hadn't been playing well for a long time, but I'm starting to play better these days, I find myself going deeper more often and actually having a decent stack more often when I go deep. I think my "spot picking" has gotten a lot better for making moves with short stacks, and not getting impatient later in tourneys. Early in tourneys I still get impatient sometimes and play retardedly. I'm much more confident these days than I have been, but I like throwing out some of these hands to see if it's good or bad or whatever because I have no idea what the norm is. I just know there's some sick tourney players here that go deep more often for a reason and I want to know their secrets! Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 shove the 2's.dont have a comment on the KQ hand.Very helpful sir, thank you Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Very helpful sir, thank you not saying it was bad or anything... its super dependant on villain, how you're feelin about the spot. I just dont rly mind either way. Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 not saying it was bad or anything... its super dependant on villain, how you're feelin about the spot. I just dont rly mind either way.If I think villian is weak, then is it better the way I played it (call turn raise river), or would you prefer raising the turn? I just feel like if I raised the turn and he called I'd chicken out on firing another barrell on the river, plus he could semi bluff 3 bet me on the turn and I don't want that. Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 So, I've been trying to work on picking good spots to pick up chips instead of just fold fold folding looking for double ups, I realize I haven't gone deep in much lately because I've been horrible at accumulating. I'm curious to see if this was a well played hand...no real reads, I just always think donk bets are weak.Full Tilt Poker Game #11839387969: $33,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (87931037), Table 9 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:02:26 ET - 2009/04/23Seat 1: dumbdonk88 (4,530)Seat 2: 3footputt (4,330)Seat 3: Atlpoker75 (2,670)Seat 4: D_T2001 (5,350)Seat 6: troyomac (7,120)Atlpoker75 posts the small blind of 20D_T2001 posts the big blind of 40The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to troyomac [Qc Kh]troyomac raises to 120dumbdonk88 folds3footputt foldsAtlpoker75 foldsD_T2001 calls 80*** FLOP *** [9c 6s Jd]D_T2001 checkstroyomac bets 160D_T2001 calls 160*** TURN *** [9c 6s Jd] [8d]D_T2001 bets 240troyomac calls 240*** RIVER *** [9c 6s Jd 8d] [6h]D_T2001 bets 520troyomac raises to 1,440any reads on his preflop calling range?meh hand doesnt seem awful.....could possibly argue that flop could be a check and river is just a fold. Maybe you could lessen your river sizing a little because I think hes either leading for value and will call or hes leading with something that missed like t9 Link to post Share on other sites
three eight offsuit 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 i was wondering if i could get some input on a hand from PS 80k which i played horriblythe table is very loose and theres been a lot of squeezing pf. My image should be very tight as i haven't played a hand yetPf squeezer has already squeezed twice neither shown down. Pf raiser hasn't shown a hand down yet either but has been in a few potsPokerStars Game #29701356473: Tournament #173034078, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/06/23 20:23:38 WET [2009/06/23 15:23:38 ET]Table '173034078 197' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: Ice B (3340 in chips) Seat 3: tripscraven (2730 in chips) Seat 4: T$ddyPow$r (3260 in chips) Seat 5: plonker61 (3180 in chips) Seat 6: mysen2 (2430 in chips) Seat 7: xxxApachexx (3035 in chips) Seat 8: FlushMan Dan (2760 in chips) Seat 9: angellk1 (3265 in chips) tripscraven: posts small blind 15T$ddyPow$r: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to FlushMan Dan [Kh Ac]plonker61: folds mysen2: folds xxxApachexx: raises 90 to 120FlushMan Dan: calls 120angellk1: calls 120Ice B: raises 360 to 480tripscraven: folds T$ddyPow$r: folds xxxApachexx: calls 360FlushMan Dan: calls 360angellk1: calls 360*** FLOP *** [Qc 9h As]xxxApachexx: checks FlushMan Dan: checks angellk1: checks Ice B: checks *** TURN *** [Qc 9h As] [Tc]xxxApachexx: checks FlushMan Dan: bets 930angellk1: folds Ice B: folds xxxApachexx: raises 930 to 1860FlushMan Dan has timed outFlushMan Dan: folds Uncalled bet (930) returned to xxxApachexxFlushMan Dan is sitting outxxxApachexx collected 3825 from potxxxApachexx: doesn't show hand FlushMan Dan has returned*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3825 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 9h As Tc]Seat 1: Ice B (button) folded on the TurnSeat 3: tripscraven (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 4: T$ddyPow$r (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: plonker61 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: mysen2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: xxxApachexx collected (3825)Seat 8: FlushMan Dan folded on the TurnSeat 9: angellk1 folded on the Turn contemplated a four bet shove would anyone take this line? and my turn bet is horrid cos i'm ahead of nothing that can call ie making it a bluffWould like to know how others would play it Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Bet the flop Link to post Share on other sites
JustLikeNegs 1 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 bump Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 gfy Link to post Share on other sites
JustLikeNegs 1 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 gfyplay nicely! Link to post Share on other sites
lurbz 2 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 bump gfy Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 id really like to see this thread come back alive...will try my best to post interesting/strat hands Link to post Share on other sites
three eight offsuit 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 ^^ that Link to post Share on other sites
Naslund44 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 probly shoulda checked turn, as played fold river?PokerStars Game #37377691044: Tournament #225950795, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (60/120) - 2009/12/29 16:12:26 PT [2009/12/29 19:12:26 ET]Table '225950795 23' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: Phonebook23 (5094 in chips) Seat 2: tckid (2790 in chips) Seat 3: Producer86 (2778 in chips) Seat 4: trib13 (8170 in chips) Seat 5: sue noi (9350 in chips) Seat 6: BreakStuff84 (3951 in chips) Seat 7: callmegosu (5725 in chips) Seat 8: Naslund44 (8892 in chips) Seat 9: sal7777 (5495 in chips) Phonebook23: posts the ante 15tckid: posts the ante 15Producer86: posts the ante 15trib13: posts the ante 15sue noi: posts the ante 15BreakStuff84: posts the ante 15callmegosu: posts the ante 15Naslund44: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts small blind 60Phonebook23: posts big blind 120*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Naslund44 [Ac 4c]tckid: folds Producer86: folds trib13: calls 120sue noi: folds BreakStuff84: calls 120callmegosu: calls 120Naslund44: calls 120sal7777: calls 60Phonebook23: checks *** FLOP *** [Kc 7c 4s]sal7777: checks Phonebook23: checks trib13: checks BreakStuff84: checks callmegosu: checks Naslund44: bets 500sal7777: folds Phonebook23: folds trib13: calls 500BreakStuff84: folds callmegosu: folds *** TURN *** [Kc 7c 4s] [Td]trib13: checks Naslund44: bets 1120trib13: calls 1120*** RIVER *** [Kc 7c 4s Td] [As]trib13: bets 2400Naslund44: Link to post Share on other sites
JustLikeNegs 1 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 probly shoulda checked turn, as played fold river?PokerStars Game #37377691044: Tournament #225950795, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (60/120) - 2009/12/29 16:12:26 PT [2009/12/29 19:12:26 ET]Table '225950795 23' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: Phonebook23 (5094 in chips) Seat 2: tckid (2790 in chips) Seat 3: Producer86 (2778 in chips) Seat 4: trib13 (8170 in chips) Seat 5: sue noi (9350 in chips) Seat 6: BreakStuff84 (3951 in chips) Seat 7: callmegosu (5725 in chips) Seat 8: Naslund44 (8892 in chips) Seat 9: sal7777 (5495 in chips) Phonebook23: posts the ante 15tckid: posts the ante 15Producer86: posts the ante 15trib13: posts the ante 15sue noi: posts the ante 15BreakStuff84: posts the ante 15callmegosu: posts the ante 15Naslund44: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts the ante 15sal7777: posts small blind 60Phonebook23: posts big blind 120*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Naslund44 [Ac 4c]tckid: folds Producer86: folds trib13: calls 120sue noi: folds BreakStuff84: calls 120callmegosu: calls 120Naslund44: calls 120sal7777: calls 60Phonebook23: checks *** FLOP *** [Kc 7c 4s]sal7777: checks Phonebook23: checks trib13: checks BreakStuff84: checks callmegosu: checks Naslund44: bets 500sal7777: folds Phonebook23: folds trib13: calls 500BreakStuff84: folds callmegosu: folds *** TURN *** [Kc 7c 4s] [Td]trib13: checks Naslund44: bets 1120trib13: calls 1120*** RIVER *** [Kc 7c 4s Td] [As]trib13: bets 2400Naslund44:he looks like hes drawing. and the only draw that the Ace fills is QJ, but is he calling the bet on the flop with QJ. unless maybe its QJcc. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I think calling is the best option. Can't see what you get value out of by shoving and the only logical things that beat you are A7/AT. edit - yea QJcc makes sense and AT doesn't make much sense given flop action.I'd say a lot of his range should be busted draws. He limped preflop so he could have a lot of flush draws/straight draws on this board. The ace is a "scary" card so it's probably likely he'll bluff here to try to get you to fold Kx. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 You tourney donks get your butts into the Outlast The Pro tourney that starts in 30 minutes. With the $100 last longer from Daniel it's a freeroll. Link to post Share on other sites
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