daniel, how do you play this ....

[goldenteemaster 0]

I wouldn't have called the 1000 never mind the all in. There are just way too many hands that have TPTK beat and people could be playing (can think of 10 off the top of my head). Not worth the risk, I would've gotten out after the 1000 bet.

[holman3rd 0]

So, let's ignore the results, forget about the specific cards involved, and restate the problem.You're second stack and have limped into a multiway pot. A ragged, low flop that contains a Flush possibility gives you top Board pair/top kicker. The chip leader has come over the top of your bet and pushed All-In.What do you do?

Nice summary, and there is only one answer to that question. If you don't know the answer, you need serious help with your game.edit: I am using the general "you". I assume Dunce knows the answer.

Not really.What are the blinds? How many limpers preflop? What positions?How big is the pot post-flop?Did anyone bet into me? How much?How much more to call the all-in?Any reads on this player?What level of the tourney? How many spots pay? etc., etc., etc., etc.

[Lord Ben 0]

What are the blinds? 100/200, 5k starting chips. How many limpers preflop? What positions? 5 limpers for sure (that I remember). A bad player in mid position, an aggressive/loose player to the right of the dealer (big stack), the dealer, the small blind and the big blind (2nd highest stack).How big is the pot post-flop? 1000, 5 limpers x 200Did anyone bet into me? How much? No, the person in question bet first. small blind folded, the person in question bet 1000, mid postition guy called the 1000, and the guy to the right of the dealer went all in. The dealer and SB both folded leaving you with 1, possibly 2 other people in the pot with you if you call the all in, depending on if the mid position guy also folds.How much more to call the all-in? Roughly 5000 more, I (or the big stack) called the 1000 and made a pot sized reraise which put anyone else all-in.Any reads on this player? No, he's a genius player, J/K. Actually I, or the big stack, play pretty aggressively and like to push people around. A semi-bluff is not out of the question. He's been using his stack to his advantage since winning a big pot early. He's seen lots of flops, but also he's shown down some monster hands. This is his first time going all in for the evening.What level of the tourney? How many spots pay? 30 players, about 20 left, it's the end of round 3. 6 spots pay, the 6th is just giving the buyin back.

[BuzzWorthy 0]

"Who on this site would fold TPTK to a flush draw when they know that if they win they will have a cake-walk to a first place finish?"Depends what the TP is, idiot.If you have A5 and the flop comes 235 you can see how that's diffrent than AK with a K47 flop, no?See why the call sucks even more now?Also, wake the censored up, people slowplay big pairs and limp with them ALL THE TIME.

Fold. I put villian on a flush draw OR a set, with an overpair possible, but not too likely. Set seemed more likely, given that after the flop the BB bet out $1,000, hero called, and then the chip leader moved all in. For those that say call, did it ever occur to you that the villian's push could be made to protect his set from possible flush draws? Hero's call would certainly look like a draw to me. I would expect a raise with TPTK in that spot.You have to look at how the hand developed from the Villian's perspective as well. Why would he be pushing here? Does it make sense for him to push a draw here? Is he protecting a made hand? How might he be interpreting the betting thus far?It's so easy to put villian on a flush draw when you see two clubs on the flop, but you have to put him on a range of hands. If he is on a flush draw, it's almost a coin flip for you. If he has a set, you are crushed. The hand was played horribly by hero, both preflop and after the flop. Stop the bleeding here and fold.And the question about who would fold TPTK to a flush draw is just rediculous. Absent some incredible read, you can't narrow villian to a flush draw for sure. The fact that we now know that he WAS on a flush draw doesn't change anything.

Everyone stop and re-read this. holman is so on the money it's worth looking at again.That is exactly why it is an easy fold. Now that I know the hand that the big stacked pushed with... I think that is a bad play too. If he had 2 overcards to the flush, this might be OK - but pushing with one overcard, no pair and a flush draw to 2 opponents who have made and called significant bets... bad play in my opinion. it may have worked this time, but it seems like a losing proposition over time.

[Smasharoo 0]

we were debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call knowing your opponent only had outs to the flush, no over to hit, and an undercard to your pair. Then you're both ****ing idiots because obviously if you were playing with the cards face up you'd call. Just as obviously that's never going to happen and it's such a ****ing pointless thing to even post about it hardly qualifies as a "Debate"/

[Lord Ben 0]

Not to be a dick, but would you really call an all in early in the tourney with a 40% chance of busting out of the tourney? Personally if we were playing with cards face up I'd still fold that one.Personally if I'm faced with a player and I know for sure that 40% of the time I'll be going home at the end of the hand I'm pretty likely to fold anyway. I like to think that I can make up the loss by being the aggressor and sticking it to people in other hands. For instance if I didn't have a flush draw I'd have folded and he'd have gone on to win a 3k pot vs the other guy who was maybe holding mid-pair or a straight draw. Of course if they know that they'll go over the top of me every time, so eventually you have to call.

[goldenteemaster 0]

Smash, nice constructive response as usual :roll:

[holman3rd 0]

What are the blinds? 100/200, 5k starting chips.  How many limpers preflop? What positions? 5 limpers for sure (that I remember).   A bad player in mid position, an aggressive/loose player to the right of the dealer (big stack), the dealer, the small blind and the big blind (2nd highest stack).How big is the pot post-flop? 1000,  5 limpers x 200Did anyone bet into me? How much? No, the person in question bet first.  small blind folded, the person in question bet 1000, mid postition guy called the 1000, and the guy to the right of the dealer went all in.  The dealer and SB both folded leaving you with 1, possibly 2 other people in the pot with you if you call the all in, depending on if the mid position guy also folds.How much more to call the all-in? Roughly 5000 more, I (or the big stack) called the 1000 and made a pot sized reraise which put anyone else all-in.Any reads on this player? No, he's a genius player, J/K.  Actually I, or the big stack, play pretty aggressively and like to push people around.  A semi-bluff is not out of the question.  He's been using his stack to his advantage since winning a big pot early.   He's seen lots of flops, but also he's shown down some monster hands.  This is his first time going all in for the evening.What level of the tourney? How many spots pay? 30 players, about 20 left, it's the end of round 3.   6 spots pay, the 6th is just giving the buyin back.

LOL...those were rhetorical questions, but appreciate the humor in your response (i hope you meant it to be funny).

[Lord Ben 0]

About me being a genious player? Sort of both. When I'm at the table faced with 7 other guys I always assume I'm the best. It helps me stay aggressive. But logically I know I'm not the best player in the world. But I like to fool myself. I'll just settle with knowing I'm the best $20 homegame player in the world...

[Smasharoo 0]

Smash, nice constructive response as usual 50 times as constructive as your pathetic attempt to get attention by naming in a post that says nothing.Fool.Hahahaha.

[speedz99 145]

Smash, nice constructive response as usual 50 times as constructive as your pathetic attempt to get attention by naming in a post that says nothing.Fool.Hahahaha.

I would like everyone to read Smash's post above in an evil cartoon character voice. It's actually pretty amusing if you look at it that way.

[goldenteemaster 0]

Smash, nice constructive response as usual 50 times as constructive as your pathetic attempt to get attention by naming in a post that says nothing.Fool.Hahahaha.

:roll: I'm crushed by your witty rebuttle :cry:

[jimmytang 0]

I personally like messing with the big chip leader,he feels compelled to make moves when he really shouldn't and of course attempt to over play every hand he's in. If he is a skilled player - different story but how many players really know how to use their big stack.If he had trips - I doubt an all in here, over pair - again unlikely. If could string this lad along and get all his chips, his allin is a bully tactic.So the quesion is" do I risk my tournmanent life here" - I think the odds would indicate a call here, yes the preflop decision can be questioned but once the flop hits - I feel you have the hand and probably have close to 70% chance of winning it - give me those odds every allin and I would be happy.

[flyingmoose 0]

he doesn't have on overpair, he didn't raise preflop...No one ever limps in with big pocket pairs? When you get past the full blown rookie stage of your poker career, ask yourself this question again.

hmmm... that's funny.... cuz I thought that when most people got past the full-blown rookie stage of their poker career, they stopped slowplaying aces cuz they were tired of being sucked out against by the big blind... guess i was wrong.

People slowplay big pairs when they become good enough to lay them down when they're beat. Was the chip leader last to limp, though? I doubt he'd limp after 3 limpers with AA, when the pot alone would increase his stack by ~ 15%66, 99, 22, 1010, JJ would make that limp, though. A flush draw and 87 are the only hands you're beating -- and you're not beating them by much. The stuff that's beating you has you down to 5 outs, or dead to runner-runner. This is a pretty easy fold.

[JistTheFist 0]

I know... but once again... I wasn't debating whether the call alone was justified or not....but I was debating whether or not you would call here if you were 90% or more sure that you up against a flush draw. (meaning they had to hit their flush... or MAYBE they had one upper since you peg him on ace high flush draw...

[flyingmoose 0]

I know... but once again... I wasn't debating whether the call alone was justified or not....but I was debating whether or not you would call here if you were 90% or more sure that you up against a flush draw. (meaning they had to hit their flush... or MAYBE they had one upper since you peg him on ace high flush draw...

That depends 100% on the payout structure.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm crushed by your witty rebuttleGood that you realized it quicly and saved yourself further embarassment.

[goldenteemaster 0]

I'm crushed by your witty rebuttleGood that you realized it quicly and saved yourself further embarassment.

LOL. Just to show there's no hard feelings, give me a call when you're of age and I'll buy ya a drink

[speedz99 145]

Smash,How come you stopped at 3-6? I know you make a good supplementery (sp?) income from those limits, but did you ever consider saving some of the profits to move up to higher limits where you could eventually make even more?

[Smasharoo 0]

How come you stopped at 3-6? I know you make a good supplementery (sp?) income from those limits, but did you ever consider saving some of the profits to move up to higher limits where you could eventually make even more?I have this dillema that if I have to concentrate on playing as much as I do writing, I'd make a lot more money writing unless I'm playing 100/200.I can play 3/6 and not think about it.

[alf13 0]

SMASH is right....Remember this.....pushing your chips in with the inferior hand doesn't make you a bad player..it makes you an aggressive player on the loose side....NOW...CALLING with the inferior hand doesn't make you a bad player.....it usually just means that you are quite possibly....mentally retarded....Why take the chance at being an obvious retard?your call was crap....in that situation...you are either gonna be the one making the move...or folding...NOT CALLING!!! WTF were you thinking?Bad poker man...Bad poker.