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daniel, how do you play this ....


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he doesn't have on overpair, he didn't raise preflop...No one ever limps in with big pocket pairs? When you get past the full blown rookie stage of your poker career, ask yourself this question again.
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"Who on this site would fold TPTK to a flush draw when they know that if they win they will have a cake-walk to a first place finish?"Depends what the TP is, idiot.If you have A5 and the flop comes 235 you can see how that's diffrent than AK with a K47 flop, no?See why the call sucks even more now?Also, wake the censored up, people slowplay big pairs and limp with them ALL THE TIME.
Mr. Smash, for once, we are in total agreement.
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To the person saying call... I wouldnt make a call on a hand like this unless I was very short stacked.I think the mistake you are making is in considering only the flush draw. Well what if he has a flush draw with TWO overcards (such as QJ, QT, JT suited). He could limp in with those hands. A hand like that would give him 15 outs. I havent done the exact odds, but you might only be slight favorite (since you do have a pair and one overcard).

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he doesn't have on overpair, he didn't raise preflop...No one ever limps in with big pocket pairs? When you get past the full blown rookie stage of your poker career, ask yourself this question again.
hmmm... that's funny.... cuz I thought that when most people got past the full-blown rookie stage of their poker career, they stopped slowplaying aces cuz they were tired of being sucked out against by the big blind... guess i was wrong.
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I think the chip leader's all in move was brilliant and I don't see how you could call this at all.
That's because if I read the other thread correctly' date=' it was you. Most people can't accept that they make poor plays' date=' especially when they have a positive outcome.You were at *Best* [b'']roughly a 1/4 shot to [/b]hit your flush. You also stated that you got away with it twice in one night' date=' which really accenuates your poor play.
Hoping Daniel responds himself and not through anyone else :-)
Ahhh.. the wonders of email. If you don't want people to respond to your question, don't post it in an Internet forum.
Not the case at all, I clearly stated I wanted to hear other's opinions, I just also wanted to hear Daniel's. And more like 35% to hit it with both turn and river coming.And finally this wasn't me, LOL I would not have even limped in with A9 in EP, I would have most likely done the same thing the big stack did though :-)
I said roughly, champ.Another 10% still doesn't make it a smart play. I saw that you were the club draw, if I understood it correctly. Frankly, I wouldn't have pushed it with a club draw in that position and I wouldn't have called with that hand, both of you are poor players.
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also, trust me.... my views on this are totally biased... me and sabaaba weren't debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call...we were debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call knowing your opponent only had outs to the flush, no over to hit, and an undercard to your pair.so would I call this against the flush draw. yes.would I call this if I thought that maybe it was possible for the opponent to hold a set or overpair? no would I call this if the opponenent had KQflush draw? no. we were talking about whether or not the call was good against a flush draw.

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Frankly, I wouldn't have pushed it with a club draw in that position and I wouldn't have called with that hand, both of you are poor players.
funny because neither of us were involved in the hand.
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he doesn't have on overpair, he didn't raise preflop...No one ever limps in with big pocket pairs? When you get past the full blown rookie stage of your poker career, ask yourself this question again.
hmmm... that's funny.... cuz I thought that when most people got past the full-blown rookie stage of their poker career, they stopped slowplaying aces cuz they were tired of being sucked out against by the big blind... guess i was wrong.
Who said aces? Damn rookies always assuming! Do you know what happens when you assume? You make and azz out of you and...well...just you. Ever hear about kings, queens, jacks and tens? Maybe you limp in expecting a raise...like a low stack making a move or an aggressive player who always raises button??? Sometimes a limp reraise is called for. I dont know what the other stacks were and the tendencies of the other players at the table, but to say he absolutely positively did not have a big pocket pair because he didnt raise preflop is obsurd. So, yeah...i guess you were wrong!
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This is an easy fold to me. You have plenty of chips and no reason to tangle with the chip leader with a vulnerable hand. Even if you are best, he will have plenty of outs against you. If you are wrong and have the worst hand, you are in very bad shape. Take out the smaller stacks and watch him do the same, then you can play him later. Also, don't limp with A9 from EP. Ever.

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I think the chip leader's all in move was brilliant and I don't see how you could call this at all.
That's because if I read the other thread correctly' date=' it was you. Most people can't accept that they make poor plays' date=' especially when they have a positive outcome.You were at *Best* roughly a 1/4 shot to hit your flush. You also stated that you got away with it twice in one night' date=' which really accenuates your poor play. I don't mind the chip leaders play there is a lot of dead money in the pot. He is the chip leader and can afford to get called and losed, although he might not like it. As well if instead of having a9 he had something like tens, jj, qq, kk then it would be a race because of A8's ace outs. and finally you say he was at best 1/4 shot to win it. Unfortunately you cannot do math. Assuming a9 had the nine of clubs. A8 has 8 outs to hit. We know what 7 cards are. therefore barring runnnng full house cards. A8 of clubs would win the hand. [ 7/(52-7) + 7/(52-8) ''']x 100 0r 31.5% of the time not 25% of the time and that is the worst case scenario. Next time do the math and don't just pull numbers out of your ass.
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I think the chip leader's all in move was brilliant and I don't see how you could call this at all.
That's because if I read the other thread correctly' date=' it was you. Most people can't accept that they make poor plays' date=' especially when they have a positive outcome.You were at *Best* roughly a 1/4 shot to hit your flush. You also stated that you got away with it twice in one night' date=' which really accenuates your poor play. I don't mind the chip leaders play there is a lot of dead money in the pot. He is the chip leader and can afford to get called and losed, although he might not like it. As well if instead of having a9 he had something like tens, jj, qq, kk then it would be a race because of A8's ace outs. and finally you say he was at best 1/4 shot to win it. Unfortunately you cannot do math. Assuming a9 had the nine of clubs. A8 has 8 outs to hit. We know what 7 cards are. therefore barring runnnng full house cards. A8 of clubs would win the hand. [ 7/(52-7) + 7/(52-8) ''']x 100 0r 31.5% of the time not 25% of the time and that is the worst case scenario. Next time do the math and don't just pull numbers out of your ass.
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now change the question saba... how about this..."Who on this site would fold TPTK to a flush draw when they know that if they win they will have a cake-walk to a first place finish?"trust me, I don't feel the need to post it to daniel....Me and SabaAba were having a discussion in the other thread... and he felt the need to ask Daniel... I really am not sure about you guys... but I like winning tournaments not "hanging on" long enough to finish in third.... so to me, being 2nd in chips, and having a 65% chance of doubling up against the chip leader.... yeah, that sounds like a good play to me.
Even if he would have won there would still be 20 people and 150,000 in chips in play, of which he'd have about 12,000. Hardly a cakewalk to 1st place. If you lose you're out.
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"Who on this site would fold TPTK to a flush draw when they know that if they win they will have a cake-walk to a first place finish?"Depends what the TP is, idiot.If you have A5 and the flop comes 235 you can see how that's diffrent than AK with a K47 flop, no?See why the call sucks even more now?Also, wake the censored up, people slowplay big pairs and limp with them ALL THE TIME.
Fold. I put villian on a flush draw OR a set, with an overpair possible, but not too likely. Set seemed more likely, given that after the flop the BB bet out $1,000, hero called, and then the chip leader moved all in. For those that say call, did it ever occur to you that the villian's push could be made to protect his set from possible flush draws? Hero's call would certainly look like a draw to me. I would expect a raise with TPTK in that spot.You have to look at how the hand developed from the Villian's perspective as well. Why would he be pushing here? Does it make sense for him to push a draw here? Is he protecting a made hand? How might he be interpreting the betting thus far?It's so easy to put villian on a flush draw when you see two clubs on the flop, but you have to put him on a range of hands. If he is on a flush draw, it's almost a coin flip for you. If he has a set, you are crushed. The hand was played horribly by hero, both preflop and after the flop. Stop the bleeding here and fold.And the question about who would fold TPTK to a flush draw is just rediculous. Absent some incredible read, you can't narrow villian to a flush draw for sure. The fact that we now know that he WAS on a flush draw doesn't change anything.
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To me, that is an easy fold. With the limpers, I am putting someone on a small pair, hoping to hit trips, which is probably what happened. Just my own opinion of the play.

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I didn't really read the whole thing... I did read about the "daniel would say bit" though... I don't care what the guy who said that wants to answer to this, but I think daniel would play it based on what he saw from the guy doing the all in... sometimes he might play it and sometimes he might not... but then again, he wouldn't be in second place in your level of tournaments (no offense :-))

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yeah,.... if you guys want to see what the player who moved all-in REALLY had.... check it out http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=11793 there....hmmm... yeah he had a flush draw.... thank you very much....smash, I am worried about a set... I already made an edit to that post as soon as I hit it..... but don't you think a raise would have been made with 99,66? MAYBE, MAYBE, MAYBE he has 22...... but I wouldn't think so.
You are also worried about any 2 suited overcards... like KcQc, KcJc, etc. you are an underdog to those hands after the flop.
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also, trust me.... my views on this are totally biased... me and sabaaba weren't debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call...we were debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call knowing your opponent only had outs to the flush, no over to hit, and an undercard to your pair.so would I call this against the flush draw. yes.would I call this if I thought that maybe it was possible for the opponent to hold a set or overpair? no would I call this if the opponenent had KQflush draw? no. we were talking about whether or not the call was good against a flush draw.
So you are saying you are making the decision if during the tournament, you were allowed to look at your opponents cards? I'd like to play in these tournaments.
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also, trust me.... my views on this are totally biased... me and sabaaba weren't debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call...we were debating on whether or not the A9 was a good call knowing your opponent only had outs to the flush, no over to hit, and an undercard to your pair.so would I call this against the flush draw. yes.would I call this if I thought that maybe it was possible for the opponent to hold a set or overpair? no would I call this if the opponenent had KQflush draw? no. we were talking about whether or not the call was good against a flush draw.
So you are saying you are making the decision if during the tournament, you were allowed to look at your opponents cards? I'd like to play in these tournaments.
LOL...and another reason why results shouldn't be revealed until all the debating is done (or at least appears to be done).
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I didn't go back to read the original thread, so I dont know if I am repeating anyone but...Your real problems here come before the all-in call. Limping with an easily dominated hand and failing to raise after the flop to see where you stood were weak plays.Sorry again if I'm repeating, but I think those are important points.

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yeah,.... if you guys want to see what the player who moved all-in REALLY had.... check it out http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=11793 there....hmmm... yeah he had a flush draw.... thank you very much....smash, I am worried about a set... I already made an edit to that post as soon as I hit it..... but don't you think a raise would have been made with 99,66? MAYBE, MAYBE, MAYBE he has 22...... but I wouldn't think so.
i rarely raise w/ 66 in a full game..there are 8 pairs that can beat u.
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So, let's ignore the results, forget about the specific cards involved, and restate the problem.You're second stack and have limped into a multiway pot. A ragged, low flop that contains a Flush possibility gives you top Board pair/top kicker. The chip leader has come over the top of your bet and pushed All-In.What do you do?

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So, let's ignore the results, forget about the specific cards involved, and restate the problem.You're second stack and have limped into a multiway pot. A ragged, low flop that contains a Flush possibility gives you top Board pair/top kicker. The chip leader has come over the top of your bet and pushed All-In.What do you do?
Nice summary, and there is only one answer to that question. If you don't know the answer, you need serious help with your game.edit: I am using the general "you". I assume Dunce knows the answer.
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