Qq - Overpair - Deep

[psujohn 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($169)BB ($257.95)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , Q . 2 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $4, CO folds.Flop: ($11) 6 , 5 , T (2 players)Hero bets $9, BB raises to $21, Hero ??Plan for the rest of the hand?Villain is tight passive over a very small sample 17/0/1 35 hands.

[sactownjoey 0]

Folding just seems so grossly weak but the minraise from a passive player is...ewww. I honestly don't know. Call and check to him on the turn and hope for a cheap showdown? If he's tight, he not drawing to anything on this flop and he's probably not raising with air so what is in his range that we beat? A10, JJ, maybe smaller pp?

[TB17 0]

I'm calling and reevaluating a turn

[NoBBiR 0]

Isn't raising and folding a better line than calling and essentially surrendering all day to any turn that isn't a Queen? I think I make it 60 and fold to a shove.(Edit: Actually based on stats I might fold this to be honest 35 isn't a lot of hands, but he looks like he is a passive nit. Do you happen to know how many tables he plays?)

[sactownjoey 0]

Isn't raising and folding a better line than calling and essentially surrendering all day to any turn that isn't a Queen? I think I make it 60 and fold to a shove.

This is how passive players make money. I'd be interested to know how he built his stack with NEVER raising preflop in 35 hands. Based on reads, I'm taking a less aggressive line.

[TB17 0]

Isn't raising and folding a better line than calling and essentially surrendering all day to any turn that isn't a Queen? I think I make it 60 and fold to a shove.(Edit: Actually based on stats I might fold this to be honest 35 isn't a lot of hands, but he looks like he is a passive nit. Do you happen to know how many tables he plays?)

Raising to find out where we are at isn't good, we can get the same info judging on how hard he bets the turn

[psujohn 0]

Didn't check to see if he's multi-tabling. He had the big stack when I sat down so I didn't see him build it at all.

I think I make it 60 and fold to a shove.

I raise to 50 (I know too small). Villain calls. Turn 9s. Hero?What's your move? Besides regretting the small 3-bet on the flop.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Villain is tight passive over a very small sample 17/0/1 35 hands.

You got smooth called by a passive nit out of the BB and bumped on the flop. This is read dependent, but I re-evaluate the QQ here. Seriously.

[sactownjoey 0]

Didn't check to see if he's multi-tabling. He had the big stack when I sat down so I didn't see him build it at all.I raise to 50 (I know too small). Villain calls. Turn 9s. Hero?What's your move? Besides regretting the small 3-bet on the flop.

A bigger 3-bet wouldn't have helped you. If he was bluffing, he's folding to your bet. c/f. c/f. c/f. c/f. His stats and his line scream you are beat. What information would lead you to believe you should bet the turn?

[breathweapon 0]

I'd aggress with a 3 Bet and a pot bet if it is checked to me on the turn. He could just be hanging on with a weak ten heads up.

[mikeysong 0]

Didn't check to see if he's multi-tabling. He had the big stack when I sat down so I didn't see him build it at all.I raise to 50 (I know too small). Villain calls. Turn 9s. Hero?What's your move? Besides regretting the small 3-bet on the flop.

not to pick on you johnbut this is an example of why 3betting especially OOP for "info" doesn't work.as played, I'd either check or bet halfpot

[fookfook 0]

He has AT, KT sort of hands. Your $9 bet on the flop looks as a continuation bet in his part, so he raise with his top pair/decent kicker. JJ and a set also within his range. Is he making play and thought the flop miss you? I doubt it. Making 3-bet $50 on the flop gave you no info at all. Either you still way in front, or way behind. Is he sort of players thinking top pair is unbeatable? I would bet like $50 to $60 on the turn and see what he does. Fold to re-raise all-in. If he flat call again, I would check-call on the river. If he had a set, nothing you can do!

[TB17 0]

As played I'm checking behind.I still really like a call of his raise much better than a 3 bet.

[Money022 0]

Well if you're willing to invest another $50-$60 by reraising on the flop, but are planning to shut down if called or raised, then isn't calling and check calling the turn giving you the same price, and allowing you to see all 5 cards? Then you can re-evaluate on the river. Not saying it's a great line, but he may make a move on the turn or river that tells you your queens are good. Thoughts?

[NoBBiR 0]

Well if you're willing to invest another $50-$60 by reraising on the flop, but are planning to shut down if called or raised, then isn't calling and check calling the turn giving you the same price, and allowing you to see all 5 cards? Then you can re-evaluate on the river. Not saying it's a great line, but he may make a move on the turn or river that tells you your queens are good. Thoughts?

Calling his raise doesn't buy us a free river, only a look at the turn. He is firing 100% of his range on the turn if he knows what he is doing.And raising here isn't just for information. We also raise for value against TP hands and JJ. His stats are nitty, but 30 hands is peanuts.In reality both lines suck. If you raise to 60 and he calls, you're stuck and clueless.If you raise to 60 and he shoves, we've essentially wasted 60bbs.If you c/c and another undercard falls, and he bets again, you're clueless.If you c/c and he bets again, he could two barrel or three barrel hands we beat.I really hate every line with this hand that anyone can come up with.I think you either have to raise (like as played) and if he calls (like as played) shove the turn. But at the same time fold if he reraises the flop.Or if you're not interested in looking at it that way, call his raise and essentially c/f every turn but a queen.I'm like 50/50 reraising/folding here based on gut. His stats are so inconclusive that it's hard to make a perfect decision here.

[nomad_monad 0]

the two of you are pretty deep - not ideal stack to pot ratio to be playing for stacks with just an overpair, especially against a nit.villain gave you an opportunity to keep the pot small - take itcall and re-evaluate the turn. villain's postflop aggression is low enough where he's probably not betting the turn superhard with Tx. as it is, Tx hands are really at the fringes of his range when he's only playing 17% of his hands preflop.i like a 3bet more if the villain plays more hands preflop since then at least we're protecting our hand against a gay str8 draw semibluff sometimes.

[psujohn 0]

The 3-bet isn't "for info". I 3-bet because I put villain on either an AT, JT kind of hand or something like a flopped set. I think villain will often fold his AT and 4-bet his sets. I'm divided on what his call means. The board is fairly dry so he's not likely afraid of a draw if he has a set.

I really hate every line with this hand that anyone can come up with.

Me too.I especially hate the "call, re-evalutate turn" line because I think we're facing a turn bet nearly always and we only have 2 outs to improve. I almost think folding is better than calling the flop and folding a non Q turn.I'm also discounting the tight passive read since 35 hands is nothing.Honestly I'm no trying to defend myself. I don't like my line any better than the call flop/re-eval turn line. I pretty much hate all lines equally and don't know what I'm supposed to do in such situations.

[mikeysong 0]

The 3-bet isn't "for info". I 3-bet because I put villain on either an AT, JT kind of hand or something like a flopped set. I think villain will often fold his AT and 4-bet his sets. I'm divided on what his call means. The board is fairly dry so he's not likely afraid of a draw if he has a set.Me too.I especially hate the "call, re-evalutate turn" line because I think we're facing a turn bet nearly always and we only have 2 outs to improve. I almost think folding is better than calling the flop and folding a non Q turn.I'm also discounting the tight passive read since 35 hands is nothing.Honestly I'm no trying to defend myself. I don't like my line any better than the call flop/re-eval turn line. I pretty much hate all lines equally and don't know what I'm supposed to do in such situations.

so why would you 3bet him if he has either a weak hand that isn't calling or a strong hand that is re-raising or calling?

[sactownjoey 0]

The 3-bet isn't "for info". I 3-bet because I put villain on either an AT, JT kind of hand or something like a flopped set. I think villain will often fold his AT and 4-bet his sets. I'm divided on what his call means. The board is fairly dry so he's not likely afraid of a draw if he has a set.Me too.I especially hate the "call, re-evalutate turn" line because I think we're facing a turn bet nearly always and we only have 2 outs to improve. I almost think folding is better than calling the flop and folding a non Q turn.I'm also discounting the tight passive read since 35 hands is nothing.Honestly I'm no trying to defend myself. I don't like my line any better than the call flop/re-eval turn line. I pretty much hate all lines equally and don't know what I'm supposed to do in such situations.

If you want to discount the PT stats, I can understand that but it says SOMETHING that he has barely played in 35 hands and hasn't raised pf in a single one and all the sudden he's making and calling raises and 3-bets. Perhaps he spent 35 hands building an image hoping to bluff/semi-bluff a big pot but that's a big leap for me. Perhaps he actually thinks his Tx, JJ is good but those are the only hands that are not bluffs that he plays like this that you beat. I don't know how you lead the turn after the line he has taken. I think your QQ is a bluff now if you lead out.