Daniel Is Being Soft On Bonomo, Like Pr Was On Gavin, Very Hypocritical

[Otodat 0]

I think Daniel's blog about Bonomo deserving credit because he apologized and is "genuinely sorry" is a lot of baloney. Bonomo cheated & Gavin cheated. That's makes them both cheated and they deserve to be treated the same. What does it really matter if he apologized and is sorry, it still means that he shouldn't be trusted in my book. Once a cheater almost always a cheater, IMO. I think it would be just like Negreanu to be softball with Bonomo, seeing as he met him on one of his trips recently, Daniel isn't the kind of guy that would get confrontational with a cheater right in his face. If Daniel's quibbling over whether to judge a guy based on if he seems sorry or not, then that is just naive. If Bonomo was really sorry he would admit to the other times he cheated and reimbursed people for all the other times he's cheated and won at poker. He ain't sorry, not really anyway, and not sorry enough to do anything real about it but apologize like some lameass. Daniel's just as guilty as Pokerroad for being softball in the exact same way IMO.

[iveyfan30 0]

I think Daniel's blog about Bonomo deserving credit because he apologized and is "genuinely sorry" is a lot of baloney. Bonomo cheated & Gavin cheated. That's makes them both cheated and they deserve to be treated the same. What does it really matter if he apologized and is sorry, it still means that he shouldn't be trusted in my book. Once a cheater almost always a cheater, IMO. I think it would be just like Negreanu to be softball with Bonomo, seeing as he met him on one of his trips recently, Daniel isn't the kind of guy that would get confrontational with a cheater right in his face. If Daniel's quibbling over whether to judge a guy based on if he seems sorry or not, then that is just naive. If Bonomo was really sorry he would admit to the other times he cheated and reimbursed people for all the other times he's cheated and won at poker. He ain't sorry, not really anyway, and not sorry enough to do anything real about it but apologize like some lameass. Daniel's just as guilty as Pokerroad for being softball in the exact same way IMO.

daniel actually did call men the master out in person at a tourney a few years ago...so thats 1 hole in your theory. the prob i have with dn is not about bonomo, its about his opinion that gavin isnt guilty of cheating. gavin admits to taking over accounts ...bonomo cheated and was caught and has apologized..he says he no longer cheats...shurg...jj isnt sorry and gavin backed him saying it wasnt a big deal..if you cant see the diffrence between bonomo and jj then i guess i give up...

[Sheiky 0]

I think Daniel's blog about Bonomo deserving credit because he apologized and is "genuinely sorry" is a lot of baloney. Bonomo cheated & Gavin cheated. That's makes them both cheated and they deserve to be treated the same. What does it really matter if he apologized and is sorry, it still means that he shouldn't be trusted in my book. Once a cheater almost always a cheater, IMO. I think it would be just like Negreanu to be softball with Bonomo, seeing as he met him on one of his trips recently, Daniel isn't the kind of guy that would get confrontational with a cheater right in his face. If Daniel's quibbling over whether to judge a guy based on if he seems sorry or not, then that is just naive. If Bonomo was really sorry he would admit to the other times he cheated and reimbursed people for all the other times he's cheated and won at poker. He ain't sorry, not really anyway, and not sorry enough to do anything real about it but apologize like some lameass. Daniel's just as guilty as Pokerroad for being softball in the exact same way IMO.

They are completely different cases, if you've ever read any of Justin's posts at 2+2 you'll see just how emotional and regretful he is about what he did. He's also admited to everything shady he did online and gave massive amounts of money to charity to make up for the extra equity he gained by multi-accounting.Bonomo is a very well respected member of the community now, he is no longer a cheat and has helped the online world become aware to the possible ways that people will try to cheat the system.

[freak2304 0]

I think Daniel's blog about Bonomo deserving credit because he apologized and is "genuinely sorry" is a lot of baloney. Bonomo cheated & Gavin cheated. That's makes them both cheated and they deserve to be treated the same. What does it really matter if he apologized and is sorry, it still means that he shouldn't be trusted in my book. Once a cheater almost always a cheater, IMO. I think it would be just like Negreanu to be softball with Bonomo, seeing as he met him on one of his trips recently, Daniel isn't the kind of guy that would get confrontational with a cheater right in his face. If Daniel's quibbling over whether to judge a guy based on if he seems sorry or not, then that is just naive. If Bonomo was really sorry he would admit to the other times he cheated and reimbursed people for all the other times he's cheated and won at poker. He ain't sorry, not really anyway, and not sorry enough to do anything real about it but apologize like some lameass. Daniel's just as guilty as Pokerroad for being softball in the exact same way IMO.

Is there not a forgiving bone in your body? Do you not think that if someone admits fault and changes their ways, they should be forgiven? He's not condoning his actions at all, but he's also not following your moniker of "once a cheater, always a cheater"....that's just narrow minded and dumb.

[Ouch-8s 4]

Bonomo is a very well respected member of the community now

Let's not fellate him just yet. He's attempting showing himself to be a better than JJ. Big deal. He's earning some trust back. He's not done yet. I've seen a few mentions to how ZJ has been helping sites to understand cheaters and their methods - where is this info coming from? What has he done?

[Otodat 0]

daniel actually did call men the master out in person at a tourney a few years ago...so thats 1 hole in your theory. the prob i have with dn is not about bonomo, its about his opinion that gavin isnt guilty of cheating. gavin admits to taking over accounts ...bonomo cheated and was caught and has apologized..he says he no longer cheats...shurg...jj isnt sorry and gavin backed him saying it wasnt a big deal..if you cant see the diffrence between bonomo and jj then i guess i give up...

I really don't see much of a difference honestly. Its not that I don't see the theoretical difference between one person being honestly sorry about their actions and one person being openly indifferent about the actions. It's more that I don't really see why it matters that one person is sorry and another person isn't. They both cheated, for the same reasons. One way of looking at it is if two people are convicted child molesters and one of them appears genuinely sorry about his actions and another person is coldblooded and remorseless, who are you going to choose to trust with your kids. If you choose the one that appears genuinely sorry, then you're dumb to me because in my opinion you shouldn't trust either one. This is the same thing as this case, obviously not to the same level of seriousness, but in my opinion they both shouldn't be trusted despite Bonomo's apologies, and singling out this kid Gavin because he's remorseless is just selective judgement based on opinion rather than the hard and true fact that they both cheated.

[Otodat 0]

Is there not a forgiving bone in your body? Do you not think that if someone admits fault and changes their ways, they should be forgiven? He's not condoning his actions at all, but he's also not following your moniker of "once a cheater, always a cheater"....that's just narrow minded and dumb.

The sentiment "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a bit aggressive, but at least it isn't naive and weak. I admit that i am less forgiving than most, but that's because most people are willing to swallow s### and accept a lot of this kind of nonsense. I mean when you really think about it what value does an apology have. Not much in my opinion. Maybe if Bonomo donated like a quarter of his earnings to sponsor a freeroll tournament in his name or something truly difficult would his apology mean something, otherwise it's just words. I also think that while he should be forgiven in principle, I don't think that there's any real reason for him to be trusted just because he apologized. If you're in the business of trusting people again because they've apologized for their actions and promise never to do it again, then you won't be in business long in my book. Poker is a game that needs way more certainty that things are legit than most money making activities because of the amount of money that is involved and when a person is dishonest even once, they shouldn't be forgiven for a very long time.

[freak2304 0]

The sentiment "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a bit aggressive, but at least it isn't naive and weak. I admit that i am less forgiving than most, but that's because most people are willing to swallow s### and accept a lot of this kind of nonsense. I mean when you really think about it what value does an apology have. Not much in my opinion. Maybe if Bonomo donated like a quarter of his earnings to sponsor a freeroll tournament in his name or something truly difficult would his apology mean something, otherwise it's just words. I also think that while he should be forgiven in principle, I don't think that there's any real reason for him to be trusted just because he apologized. If you're in the business of trusting people again because they've apologized for their actions and promise never to do it again, then you won't be in business long in my book. Poker is a game that needs way more certainty that things are legit than most money making activities because of the amount of money that is involved and when a person is dishonest even once, they shouldn't be forgiven for a very long time.

Good god, you must have no friends. How could you with an attitude like that.

[Otodat 0]

Good god, you must have no friends. How could you with an attitude like that.

Just because I have this attitude about the appropriate attitude that should be shown to a cheater doesn't mean that I feel the same way about judging people for other things. For example I don't really share the same kinds of thoughts about steroid use in sports, and I also don't particularly think that it is inherently wrong for a cheater to cheat. You should exploit your edges in life as much as you deem necessary in my opinion. I don't really see much wrong with a person trying to exploit an edge, but I do believe that when that person is caught f@@@ing up, they should be treated aggressively and not with kid gloves. Hey you chose to do the crime right? Then you aught to pay the consequences. And actually if you've noticed I haven't even really covered the JJProdigy kid (the one that Daniel was blogging about), because my main contention isn't with him. He's already paying the price for his actions. My main contention is with Daniel being soft with Bonomo because he apologized and appears sorry. I understand that people are forgiving when a person apologizes, but I think that's because most people are gullible, kinda like you .

[freak2304 0]

Just because I have this attitude about the appropriate attitude that should be shown to a cheater doesn't mean that I feel the same way about judging people for other things. For example I don't really share the same kinds of thoughts about steroid use in sports, and I also don't particularly think that it is inherently wrong for a cheater to cheat. You should exploit your edges in life as much as you deem necessary in my opinion. I don't really see much wrong with a person trying to exploit an edge, but I do believe that when that person is caught f@@@ing up, they should be treated aggressively and not with kid gloves. Hey you chose to do the crime right? Then you aught to pay the consequences. And actually if you've noticed I haven't even really covered the JJProdigy kid (the one that Daniel was blogging about), because my main contention isn't with him. He's already paying the price for his actions. My main contention is with Daniel being soft with Bonomo because he apologized and appears sorry. I understand that people are forgiving when a person apologizes, but I think that's because most people are gullible, kinda like you .

Gullible, why? Because I have a heart? I'm not saying that because the kid appologized everyone should just say, "Ok. That works for me. No harm done." That's asanine....but not being able to see the distinction between Bonomo and JJProdigy, in their attitude, is laughable.

[PrtyPSux 0]

The sentiment "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a bit aggressive, but at least it isn't naive and weak. I admit that i am less forgiving than most, but that's because most people are willing to swallow s### and accept a lot of this kind of nonsense. I mean when you really think about it what value does an apology have. Not much in my opinion. Maybe if Bonomo donated like a quarter of his earnings to sponsor a freeroll tournament in his name or something truly difficult would his apology mean something, otherwise it's just words. I also think that while he should be forgiven in principle, I don't think that there's any real reason for him to be trusted just because he apologized. If you're in the business of trusting people again because they've apologized for their actions and promise never to do it again, then you won't be in business long in my book. Poker is a game that needs way more certainty that things are legit than most money making activities because of the amount of money that is involved and when a person is dishonest even once, they shouldn't be forgiven for a very long time.

You've never talked to the kid in your life, how can you say there's no reason for him to be trusted again? He apologized 3 years ago online, a very weak apology imo, but since then everyone that knows and has talked to the guy has sensed at one point or another the shit he's gone through for making one mistake, and how genuinely remorseful he is. One spot in particular comes to mind, I was doing a televised tourney and everyone that was playing there was affiliated with the same poker site for one reason or another, Justin and I didn't get approached with a deal to wear a logo, we didn't think much of it. A few minutes passed and they approached me to wear the logo and offered me the same deal as the rest of the guys, Justin was the only one not getting approached and he knew why, we all did, you can see the disappointment and regret in his face. After a while the poker site ended up coming around and giving him the deal but you could tell they had to really think about it and he felt that. That's the type of stuff Justin (who hasn't been cheating since he got caught) has to go through, not to mention having to put up with a bunch of retards making the same "multiaccounting live event" jokes for over a year. I was one of the biggest "haters" on Justin when he got caught, and up until the point I started hanging out with him, since then I've seen the kid go through a lot of shit in a lot of different areas just because he made that one mistake. He's paid for it and most live pros that have talked to him know he's a smart kid who just ****ed up once and realizes this, most already forgave, it's just the idiots that have no clue who keep hating on the dude. Also, you have to keep in mind that when Justin did it there were still a lot of grey areas in online poker, a lot more grey areas than there are now...I know that when I was 19 if I was playing tourneys and all the good tourney players started telling me that you can click on the party logo super fast over and over and open more tables to make more money, I might have been gullible enough to try it without thinking much of it. I can't say for a fact that that's what happened with justin but I can say that back then a lot more people were doing it which might have made it seem okay to some, a friend of mine used a good example and called ZJ the Barry Bonds of poker, everyone wa s doing it not thinking that it was flat out cheating but Justin was the most famous one and the one who got all the shit for it. I'm not condoning what he did or justifying it, I'm just saying that he already got what he had coming to him and he paid for it. JJ hasn't gotten absolutely anything other than the PCA ban, the kid kept cheating which is flat a scum move. Everyone I know that is friends with him says he's a really cool kid, super good at poker, I think it's retarded that if he's that good he'd tarnish his name like that. A guy who keeps multi accounting like that after he got caught is really hard for me to believe that he never did it in a cash game or a big sit n go where his edge becomes insanely larger than in an MTT, we'll never know.I do think there is a problem in poker with being too forgiving in other cases...honestly the fact that Men is still allowed to play tourneys is beyond me, the dud has been caught and confronted and other than catching a little bit of a bad rep his face is still on ESPN every year as "the master"....Just like him there are a lot of other people who are rumored or have been caught cheating and nothing was done. I remember playing the "Legends of Poker" WPT at the bike and noticing that they were using the same chips in the 10k as they did in the Prelims, I pointed it out and said how shocked I was and Dan Harrington said "Are these really the same chips? This is unbelievable, how can they do this? Especially when there are so many guys in this room that I would cheat in a heartbeat". I think there should definitely be one governing body for all poker, which in theory sounds great but would be extremely hard to accomplish, however this would legitimize the game a lot. People that get caught cheating online, live cash and live tourneys small as they may be, should be penalized according to their actions, this would not only discourage cheating but encourage new players to play and feel comfortable about it. imo.

[mcpickl 0]

You've never talked to the kid in your life, how can you say there's no reason for him to be trusted again? He apologized 3 years ago online, a very weak apology imo, but since then everyone that knows and has talked to the guy has sensed at one point or another the shit he's gone through for making one mistake, and how genuinely remorseful he is. One spot in particular comes to mind, I was doing a televised tourney and everyone that was playing there was affiliated with the same poker site for one reason or another, Justin and I didn't get approached with a deal to wear a logo, we didn't think much of it. A few minutes passed and they approached me to wear the logo and offered me the same deal as the rest of the guys, Justin was the only one not getting approached and he knew why, we all did, you can see the disappointment and regret in his face. After a while the poker site ended up coming around and giving him the deal but you could tell they had to really think about it and he felt that. That's the type of stuff Justin (who hasn't been cheating since he got caught) has to go through, not to mention having to put up with a bunch of retards making the same "multiaccounting live event" jokes for over a year. I was one of the biggest "haters" on Justin when he got caught, and up until the point I started hanging out with him, since then I've seen the kid go through a lot of shit in a lot of different areas just because he made that one mistake. He's paid for it and most live pros that have talked to him know he's a smart kid who just ****ed up once and realizes this, most already forgave, it's just the idiots that have no clue who keep hating on the dude. Also, you have to keep in mind that when Justin did it there were still a lot of grey areas in online poker, a lot more grey areas than there are now...I know that when I was 19 if I was playing tourneys and all the good tourney players started telling me that you can click on the party logo super fast over and over and open more tables to make more money, I might have been gullible enough to try it without thinking much of it. I can't say for a fact that that's what happened with justin but I can say that back then a lot more people were doing it which might have made it seem okay to some, a friend of mine used a good example and called ZJ the Barry Bonds of poker, everyone wa s doing it not thinking that it was flat out cheating but Justin was the most famous one and the one who got all the shit for it. I'm not condoning what he did or justifying it, I'm just saying that he already got what he had coming to him and he paid for it. JJ hasn't gotten absolutely anything other than the PCA ban, the kid kept cheating which is flat a scum move. Everyone I know that is friends with him says he's a really cool kid, super good at poker, I think it's retarded that if he's that good he'd tarnish his name like that. A guy who keeps multi accounting like that after he got caught is really hard for me to believe that he never did it in a cash game or a big sit n go where his edge becomes insanely larger than in an MTT, we'll never know.I do think there is a problem in poker with being too forgiving in other cases...honestly the fact that Men is still allowed to play tourneys is beyond me, the dud has been caught and confronted and other than catching a little bit of a bad rep his face is still on ESPN every year as "the master"....Just like him there are a lot of other people who are rumored or have been caught cheating and nothing was done. I remember playing the "Legends of Poker" WPT at the bike and noticing that they were using the same chips in the 10k as they did in the Prelims, I pointed it out and said how shocked I was and Dan Harrington said "Are these really the same chips? This is unbelievable, how can they do this? Especially when there are so many guys in this room that I would cheat in a heartbeat" I think there should definitely be one governing body for all poker, which in theory sounds great but would be extremely hard to accomplish, however this would legitimize the game a lot. People that get caught cheating online, live cash and live tourneys small as they may be, should be penalized according to their actions, this would not only discourage cheating but encourage new players to play and feel comfortable about it. imo.

I'm guessing the "I" in the bolded sentence is a misprint. Changes the meaning drastically.

[Oziumrules 0]

1. Bill Belichick2. JJProdigy3. Barry Bonds4. Marion Jones5. Bill ClintonSee....ZJ doesnt even make the Top 5 cheaters? Relax...

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I'm guessing the "I" in the bolded sentence is a misprint. Changes the meaning drastically.

I think you need to add the word "know" after "I" and then it makes sense.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Answer the following situation: You HAVE TO choose to allow one of two people to watch your children. Person 1: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown no remorse whatsoever and essentially says he'll likely do it again.Person 2: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown genuine remorse, has attended rehab sessions, counsels other pedophiles, has children of his own that he hasn't molested. In this case, would you leave your kids with person 1, person 2, or would your answer still be, "It doesn't matter, they are both equally guilty."

[SoCooLBob 0]

Gee .. Great Thread (Opinion)Whole lot of "conversation"People writing long ... People thinking ...Conversation involves pretty important topic ..Is there cheating in poker? online poker? what is it? what does it look like?{just coming in out of the blind I really don't know what happened in any of these incidents .. but I'm definitely interested.writing with a link would help .. maybe .. not your responsibilities however}How do I play to deal with cheating in poker if I'm going to?I, particularly, LOVE, the "moral" question.I, particularly, LOVE, the notion that dn among others will include in their thinking .. what God says in his word.Main thing I'm taking away from this conversation is a certain happiness knowing that human beings are trying their best to do the right thing ... "knowing" that the "right thing" is "probably" choosing the "best way to think" ... rather than the way you already think or feel.What's the best way for the Poker Community to deal with the certainty of Poker Cheating?What's the bet way for YOU to deal with the certainty of Poker Cheating?How am I going to deal with it?Praying For All Winners !!http://www.winamillionplayingpoker.com

[Figger 0]

I'm guessing the "I" in the bolded sentence is a misprint. Changes the meaning drastically.

You did notice that this sentence was in quotes attributed to what Dan Harrington said? Not what JC said.

[PrtyPSux 0]

You did notice that this sentence was in quotes attributed to what Dan Harrington said? Not what JC said.

yes I apologize, I meant Harrington said he knew some people in that tourney that would cheat in a heartbeat.

Answer the following situation: You HAVE TO choose to allow one of two people to watch your children. Person 1: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown no remorse whatsoever and essentially says he'll likely do it again.Person 2: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown genuine remorse, has attended rehab sessions, counsels other pedophiles, has children of his own that he hasn't molested. In this case, would you leave your kids with person 1, person 2, or would your answer still be, "It doesn't matter, they are both equally guilty."

I get the intentions of the comparison but it's kinda off imo.... In this case I'd say both are equally guilty and I wouldn't let my kids near either of them. There are not too many grey area in child molesting either your a sick pervert or you're not... I think this is more like Person 1: is 18 years old and has sex with his 15 year old girlfriend, then gets charged for child molestation and is now denied jobs and is in the neighborhood watch list as a child molester. He said he knew it was kinda illegal but didn't think it was a bad thing because they were going out a year before he turned 18. He never does it again.Person 2: is in the same situation, but then goes and does it with several 12 year olds. The first guy crossed the line, the second guy is sick mentally.....ZJ crossed the line once then went back over it and never crossed it again he was punished for it and dealt with everything well, JJ crossed the line and drew a couple new ones then crossed those he hasn't been punished and seems to think he doesn't deserve to be.....Live cheats are on a whole other level though and literally get 0% of the neg-press that Sorel does cause he buys an account.I'd like to know what DN thinks on putting together some sort of universal poker disciplinary commission and how feasible it is? I would think it would be extremely hard to govern something like this but at some point it might be necessary mainly for cheating but could also come in handy for other things. I don't know I just cant stand sitting at the table with a known scumbag cheat and see them smiling with their huge stack, regardless of wether they still do it or not I just think it could hurt poker a lot in the future.

[Fleur 0]

Hi everyone, I'm new here so please, don't beat me up for asking a silly question but: what did this guy actually do that was cheating? When I play online poker, I usually play two tables at the same time too. With the same account. I don't see how that's cheating.And if you have multiple accounts, and you pay for them, why wouldn't you be allowed to play multiple tables either?I must have misunderstood the main point here because simply playing multiple tables can't really be cheating in my view

[irishguy 14]

Hi everyone, I'm new here so please, don't beat me up for asking a silly question but: what did this guy actually do that was cheating? When I play online poker, I usually play two tables at the same time too. With the same account. I don't see how that's cheating.And if you have multiple accounts, and you pay for them, why wouldn't you be allowed to play multiple tables either?I must have misunderstood the main point here because simply playing multiple tables can't really be cheating in my view

He had multiple accounts and entered them in the same tournament.

[Fleur 0]

Ah, then I get it. Didn't know it was a tournament. Sorry about that

[El Guapo 8]

Answer the following situation: You HAVE TO choose to allow one of two people to watch your children. Person 1: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown no remorse whatsoever and essentially says he'll likely do it again.Person 2: Child molester. Has been caught molesting children, has shown genuine remorse, has attended rehab sessions, counsels other pedophiles, has children of his own that he hasn't molested. In this case, would you leave your kids with person 1, person 2, or would your answer still be, "It doesn't matter, they are both equally guilty."

Not that I disagree with what you said in your blog, but OMG this is a terrible analogy.Would you like to be raped with a nightstick or a baseball bat? Um, how bout neither.I understand you capitalized HAVE TO, but it would never ever ever happen.

[blakheart 3]

OP- Are there any mistakes you made when you where 16 that you regret today. Should you still be held accountable for those mistakes? I know in my life I did lots of things wrong when I was a child, and I would like to think I have grown up since then. I think people should be given a chance to grow up and grow past their childhood mistakes.Justin (not Gavin, BTW) made mistakes as a minor and has worked hard to make ammends ever since. JJprodigy has worked hard to find new and different ways to cheat. There is a clear difference.

[Fleur 0]

I have to agree with El Guapo, the analogy is quite a bit out of proportion compared to the real situation. Cheating is no good, especially in a game like poker, but to compare it to childmolestation is a whole different thing.

[kodkid 0]

I think Daniel's blog about Bonomo deserving credit because he apologized and is "genuinely sorry" is a lot of baloney. Bonomo cheated & Gavin cheated. That's makes them both cheated and they deserve to be treated the same. What does it really matter if he apologized and is sorry, it still means that he shouldn't be trusted in my book. Once a cheater almost always a cheater, IMO. I think it would be just like Negreanu to be softball with Bonomo, seeing as he met him on one of his trips recently, Daniel isn't the kind of guy that would get confrontational with a cheater right in his face. If Daniel's quibbling over whether to judge a guy based on if he seems sorry or not, then that is just naive. If Bonomo was really sorry he would admit to the other times he cheated and reimbursed people for all the other times he's cheated and won at poker. He ain't sorry, not really anyway, and not sorry enough to do anything real about it but apologize like some lameass. Daniel's just as guilty as Pokerroad for being softball in the exact same way IMO.

I'm having trouble finding the interview... what was the dated of the show and how far into it?