Lost & Confused

[simo_8ball 0]

Hi, I'm neutral. I have no education of Religion or Science. I have no racial bias, I have no prejudice. I am innocent.I'm looking for a 'world view', to help make sense of this existence I appear to have control over.There just seems to be so many options to choose from. Can you please help me?Most of the posters here are Christian, agnostic or atheist, but this is more a general theory type question. I'm basically asking, "why should someone choose your faith/religion/world view". I'm hoping to avoid reponses of the type "choose us or go to Hell", or "look, either you're an atheist or you believe in a fluffy cloud monster that demands you worship him."

[jmkiser 0]

Hi, I'm neutral. I have no education of Religion or Science. I have no racial bias, I have no prejudice. I am innocent.I'm looking for a 'world view', to help make sense of this existence I appear to have control over.There just seems to be so many options to choose from. Can you please help me?Most of the posters here are Christian, agnostic or atheist, but this is more a general theory type question. I'm basically asking, "why should someone choose your faith/religion/world view". I'm hoping to avoid reponses of the type "choose us or go to Hell", or "look, either you're an atheist or you believe in a fluffy cloud monster that demands you worship him."

My advice? Take some personal time and reflect on yourself. Once you're comfortable with who you are, things like religion tend to fall in place better. If that isn't necessary, then good luck in your search.As far as why I'm an atheist, I am one because I have a lack of belief in the religions of the world. I can also take it one step further and say that "So far in my life, I have seen no evidence or even a reason for a god to exist". The reality is that I don't know and I don't think that any one can know. That is why the word faith exists. I just don't have any faith in any religions. Are there certainly mysteries in the world that are unexplainable? Of course, there always have been and as humans we always do what we can to explain them. Is it easier to say "god did it"? Sure, but it's intellectually lazy and harmful to our own progression as a society to not put our resources into discovering the indiscoverable.I know I kind of went off track there, but it was for the purpose of defining my view on what religion should be. It shouldn't be an all-enveloping practice that takes over lives, it should be a hobby that is enjoyed on the side. And as society, we should stop giving the religious a free pass just because that they have faith.Hopefully, that explains my world view a little bit and maybe it makes a little sense to ya In the end, do what you wish. We're free men here! SPARTA! lol

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I'm a Big Bangist who believes that the best thing that people can do philosophically is to treat others as they would want to be treated in return. Sources:"The First Three Minutes," by Steven Weinberg"Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals," by Immanuel KantAlmost certainly, any god that people in this world propose must fit in the limits of the world outlined by the above. I will say no more on the issue of a God since it is entirely irrefutable.(Also, as to your comment about appearing to have control, there is a chance that free will may simply be an illusion in the form of an extremely complicated macro state of emergentent behavior brought about by simple molecular interactions. But don't worry about that at all. If it is all an illusion, but you at least really believe that you can feel happy and laugh, then by all means be happy and laugh. It won't hurt anyone).

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Okay, to make a slightly less snobby answer:There are three aspects that make up what we could consider to be a "world view" in the sense to which you are referring. They are Science, Philosophy, and God. These are the three categories that one can use to classify religious beliefs. The Science aspect deals with the view of the world, it's creation, miracles, life, the universe, etc. Philosophy deals with how people should treat one another, what people should believe, and what should motivate us, and how we should seek to be happy. God deals with whether or not there is a god and the form that such a god could have.Here's how I see the world:Science: This is the objective one. Any valid world view must conform very closely to accepted science. This, of course, for obvious reasons. By "very close," I mean that it must not contradict anything that is scientifically accepted as "true," but could, I guess, venture into theoretical and untested science if for some reason it chose to do so.Philosophy: This is the hard one. One one can really argue well what a good "philosophy" should contain. Above, I argued for the one outlined by Kant, but this is out of personal preference (okay, it's more than simply a preference. I believe deeply based on simple symmetry arguments that Kant's philosophy of the Categorical Imperative is a good one). But certainly there is room for argument.God: This is the impossible one. We can never fully know. We most likely will never know until possibly after we die (but certainly we could easily die and forever never know). For these reasons, I believe it is usually silly to argue the point. Having a religion that conforms to all of science and has a decent philosophy will find the question of god somewhat moot. It shouldn't matter at all if your beliefs and actions are based on rock solid principles. So, I usually choose to avoid the question entirely. God is something to think about when you're drunk on red wine or stoned and trying to have a fun conversation.

[simo_8ball 0]

My advice? Take some personal time and reflect on yourself. Once you're comfortable with who you are, things like religion tend to fall in place better. If that isn't necessary, then good luck in your search.

To clarify, I'm an atheist. Pretty much 100% set on that. My question here is a theoretical one and the "I" of which I speak is a theoretical being. You're a real sweetie though.I want to hear what various religions have to say on why someone should choose one path over another. Someone wanders out of the jungle with an apparent perfect English vocablulary but no knowledge of the outer world (and to make things simpler) no memory of the past, their upbringing, anything. He has no opinions, and no beliefs. He wants to know what to believe and why."Judaism is the one true path" - why? If I'm Islamic I get a load of virgins when I die - that's pretty cool. But according to most religions, if I choose wrongly I go to Hell (or equivalent).Basically, I've never heard an argument for a Religion that wasn't a derivative of "God said ours is the true faith so follow us".

[herokid7 0]

Hi, I'm neutral. I have no education of Religion or Science. I have no racial bias, I have no prejudice. I am innocent.I'm looking for a 'world view', to help make sense of this existence I appear to have control over.There just seems to be so many options to choose from. Can you please help me?Most of the posters here are Christian, agnostic or atheist, but this is more a general theory type question. I'm basically asking, "why should someone choose your faith/religion/world view". I'm hoping to avoid reponses of the type "choose us or go to Hell", or "look, either you're an atheist or you believe in a fluffy cloud monster that demands you worship him."

I would suggest you read "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. In it he pretty much talks about why Christians should believe in Jesus, and how some Christians get it wrong. There is one line he says that "I believe that the way of Jesus is the best possible way to live." In other words, Jesus set an example on the way we should live, how we should treat other people, and what is really important in the world. The point of Christianity, imo, is not to avoid Hell and get into Heaven, it's about trying my best to get Heaven here, metaphorically speaking. How do we get Heaven here? By following the way of Jesus. Another book you might want to check out is "Mere Chrisitianity" by C.S. Lewis. He pretty much addresses all the core beliefs of Christianity and explains why he believes they are true.

[crowTrobot 2]

Philosophy deals with how people should treat one another, what people should believe, and what should motivate us, and how we should seek to be happy.

based on the track record of both there's no reason to think science can't objectively address the specifics of all of those questions much more usefully than philosophy can.

God deals with whether or not there is a god and the form that such a god could have.

this is absolutely a scientific question.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Hi, I'm neutral. I have no education of Religion or Science. I have no racial bias, I have no prejudice. I am innocent.I'm looking for a 'world view', to help make sense of this existence I appear to have control over.There just seems to be so many options to choose from. Can you please help me?Most of the posters here are Christian, agnostic or atheist, but this is more a general theory type question. I'm basically asking, "why should someone choose your faith/religion/world view". I'm hoping to avoid reponses of the type "choose us or go to Hell", or "look, either you're an atheist or you believe in a fluffy cloud monster that demands you worship him."

What a genuine question! Man...that was refreshing...seriously.As a Christian once put it to me... Imagine Christ like a $20 bill. If I hand you a $20 bill and you inspect it thoroughly and decide that it is in fact a $20 bill and it is in fact legal tender and you are 100% sure that it's value is exactly $20 but you don't put it in your wallet.....then you don't have $20. Christ is like that. If you research Christ and accept that He is the true saviour and the true messiah and the word of the Bible is trully the word of the one and only true God....but you don't accept Jesus in your heart as your personal saviour... then you still don't have Christ.Now...how does one come to this realization? I don't know how each and every person does. I would recommend one of mine and Daniels favorite books "A Case for Christ" and just read it. Know that it was written by an athiest...or fomer athiest I should say. A guy who had the very questions you have. If you decide to learn more about Christianity...I would then recommend you get a study Bible that has NWT (New Word Translation) and get in a study group. Perhaps seek out a non-denominational church that has good adult bible study. I think it's important to get with people who can help you understand the Bible..rather than just trying to read it ...cuz it aint an easy read..LOL.This should help you answer one of your questions: "Why some people chose this faith over that faith".This is only my opnion and I do not mean any disrespect to any follower of any sect of Christianity or believer in any other religion. Just trying to offer some suggestions.

[crowTrobot 2]

I would suggest you read "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. In it he pretty much talks about why Christians should believe in Jesus, and how some Christians get it wrong. There is one line he says that "I believe that the way of Jesus is the best possible way to live." In other words, Jesus set an example on the way we should live, how we should treat other people, and what is really important in the world. The point of Christianity, imo, is not to avoid Hell and get into Heaven, it's about trying my best to get Heaven here, metaphorically speaking. How do we get Heaven here? By following the way of Jesus.

this is a decidedly unbiblical approach to christianity. maybe something lois and i will agree on lol.

[SuperJon 175]

I would just pick which ever religion came first.The rest are all copycats.

[herokid7 0]

this is a decidedly unbiblical approach to christianity. maybe something lois and i will agree on lol.

Actually, it is very biblical. Jesus himself prayed, "Let Your will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven." So, if God's Will that is done in Heaven, and Jesus prayed that God's Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, then it is very possible to bring Heaven to earth. Everytime a follower of Christ does God's Will. Heaven has been brought to earth, figuratively speaking. There is another verse that says "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven." Showing that to the believer, Heaven and Earth are not really exclusive to each other.

[jmkiser 0]

What a genuine question! Man...that was refreshing...seriously.As a Christian once put it to me... Imagine Christ like a $20 bill. If I hand you a $20 bill and you inspect it thoroughly and decide that it is in fact a $20 bill and it is in fact legal tender and you are 100% sure that it's value is exactly $20 but you don't put it in your wallet.....then you don't have $20. Christ is like that. If you research Christ and accept that He is the true saviour and the true messiah and the word of the Bible is trully the word of the one and only true God....but you don't accept Jesus in your heart as your personal saviour... then you still don't have Christ.Now...how does one come to this realization? I don't know how each and every person does. I would recommend one of mine and Daniels favorite books "A Case for Christ" and just read it. Know that it was written by an athiest...or fomer athiest I should say. A guy who had the very questions you have. If you decide to learn more about Christianity...I would then recommend you get a study Bible that has NWT (New Word Translation) and get in a study group. Perhaps seek out a non-denominational church that has good adult bible study. I think it's important to get with people who can help you understand the Bible..rather than just trying to read it ...cuz it aint an easy read..LOL.This should help you answer one of your questions: "Why some people chose this faith over that faith".This is only my opnion and I do not mean any disrespect to any follower of any sect of Christianity or believer in any other religion. Just trying to offer some suggestions.

To the bolded part: /sigh :: shakes head in disappointment ::To the italicized part: You didn't say anything at all that addressed Christianity > other religions.All you merely stated was that there was $20 and if you didn't take it, then you don't have it. So pretty much nothing really. You did nothing to prove why your $20 was better then any other country's money. You didn't show that your $20 actually had any intrinsic value other then the paper it was written on.I also have to point out one of the number one things that gets to me. Why does every relation to Christianity have to be by analogy? It's not something against just Hollywood, but it is something that has bothered me consistently. I mean, I use analogies a lot to clarify some things that aren't easy to understand, but Christianity isn't one of those things. Someone asks me about Christianity, I say "Hey, here's a Bible". If you want, you can even give a summary of some of the main points to understand from the Bible. But the majority of the time, it's "You know, it's kind of like when staring at the layers of a tasty cheeseburger..." agh!Sorry if that came off as aggressive and jerky. Nothing against you, personally, Hollywood.

[jmkiser 0]

Actually, it is very biblical. Jesus himself prayed, "Let Your will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven." So, if God's Will that is done in Heaven, and Jesus prayed that God's Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, then it is very possible to bring Heaven to earth. Everytime a follower of Christ does God's Will. Heaven has been brought to earth, figuratively speaking. There is another verse that says "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven." Showing that to the believer, Heaven and Earth are not really exclusive to each other.

Or it just means that god is IN heaven and that Jesus is just praying that his will is done on earth. Maybe he wasn't praying for us to try and copy paste heaven on earth

[herokid7 0]

To the bolded part: /sigh :: shakes head in disappointment ::To the italicized part: You didn't say anything at all that addressed Christianity > other religions.All you merely stated was that there was $20 and if you didn't take it, then you don't have it. So pretty much nothing really. You did nothing to prove why your $20 was better then any other country's money. You didn't show that your $20 actually had any intrinsic value other then the paper it was written on.I also have to point out one of the number one things that gets to me. Why does every relation to Christianity have to be by analogy? It's not something against just Hollywood, but it is something that has bothered me consistently. I mean, I use analogies a lot to clarify some things that aren't easy to understand, but Christianity isn't one of those things. Someone asks me about Christianity, I say "Hey, here's a Bible". If you want, you can even give a summary of some of the main points to understand from the Bible. But the majority of the time, it's "You know, it's kind of like when staring at the layers of a tasty cheeseburger..." agh!Sorry if that came off as aggressive and jerky. Nothing against you, personally, Hollywood.

Well, usually when people use analogies they are trying to explain something. Some people will understand an analogy better than a "summary of some of the main points to understand from the Bible."

[jmkiser 0]

Well, usually when people use analogies they are trying to explain something. Some people will understand an analogy better than a "summary of some of the main points to understand from the Bible."

People use analogies to make things that might be confusing more easy to explain. Talking about a $20 bill as an analogy makes things a shit ton more confusing. Especially when your analogy says "if you don't actually take the $20, then you don't have $20". My Bible class in Sunday school (pretty much the best Bible summary around) when I was a kid taught me more about Christianity then half of the analogies that I hear Christians giving to non-Christians.I think that it's even less about the analogy that gets to me. As a youth growing in the church, the modern way of "spreading the word of god" was to try to relate to others to bring them closer to god. Pretty much fancy words for "go use marketing ploys to bring people to the religion". The $20 bill is a great example. Make it sound like my religion HAS value and that all you have to do is take it, but you don't have it if you don't take it (believe in Jesus Christ)... Notice that there is absolutely zero substance about the religion itself in the analogy.Doesn't sound as appetizing if I say "Christianity is like this penny that you find on the ground. You don't really have the penny until you actually scoop down to pick it up and put it in your pocket.", does it? It's more like "f uck the penny, I'm not bending over for that shit"

[simo_8ball 0]

All you merely stated was that there was $20 and if you didn't take it, then you don't have it. So pretty much nothing really. You did nothing to prove why your $20 was better then any other country's money. You didn't show that your $20 actually had any intrinsic value other then the paper it was written on.

Exactly.If Jesus is a $20 note, why should I choose dollars? If I choose Roubles I get Buddha. If I choose Yen I get endless life in the form of reincarnation. Atheism is no different. Atheism is a currency in this extended analogy. Why should he believe atheists that nothing is there, and vice versa?How can someone innocent (in the true meaning of the word) choose a path? And why should they choose your path? According to many religions, God will show the way. Is he supposed to guess and hope he's right (and that God pointed him in the right direction)? Will he in fact be swayed in the right direction?(This is all one question btw)

[crowTrobot 2]

Atheism is no different. Atheism is a currency in this extended analogy. Why should he believe atheists that nothing is there, and vice versa?

for the record atheists think it's *most likely* there is no afterlife because that's what the current evidence indicates, but they don't "believe" there isn't in anything resembling the religious sense. it's a false stereotype that atheists necessarily have pretentious certainties. on the contrary atheism is defined by the LACK of pretentious certainties.

[crowTrobot 2]

Actually, it is very biblical. Jesus himself prayed, "Let Your will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven." So, if God's Will that is done in Heaven, and Jesus prayed that God's Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, then it is very possible to bring Heaven to earth. Everytime a follower of Christ does God's Will. Heaven has been brought to earth, figuratively speaking. There is another verse that says "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven." Showing that to the believer, Heaven and Earth are not really exclusive to each other.

biblical christianity is primarily about embracing god and accepting jesus as your savior (works alone yada yada). following jesus' moral example while we're here on earth is just part of the obedience required to accomplish that. it is certainly not the primary focus of biblical christianity. overall the bible de-emphesizes this life.

[jmkiser 0]

Exactly.If Jesus is a $20 note, why should I choose dollars? If I choose Roubles I get Buddha. If I choose Yen I get endless life in the form of reincarnation. Atheism is no different. Atheism is a currency in this extended analogy. Why should he believe atheists that nothing is there, and vice versa?How can someone innocent (in the true meaning of the word) choose a path? And why should they choose your path? According to many religions, God will show the way. Is he supposed to guess and hope he's right (and that God pointed him in the right direction)? Will he in fact be swayed in the right direction?(This is all one question btw)

Atheism believes that nothing is there? That's not too reasonable. Atheism is about not having preconceived certainties. I don't think that I'm just going to die and shrivel up in the ground. It sounds like the most likely scenario, but the correct answer is "I have no idea" "I don't know what is outside" is the reality of the atheist, not "I know there is nothing there". That's the common misconception of the atheist and a huge part of the bad PR. Anyone who says that they KNOW there isn't anything out there is a religious nutjob.So what's with all of our fighting against all of the religions of the world? Because they're flippin' crazy That's why.Edit: Reality is that no religion has one up on the other. Do this... make a dartboard with a few common religions. Judaism, Christianity (put up a few sects to cover the floor), Islam, Hinduism, etc. Throw a dart and see which religion it lands on. Go to that person's place of worship and ask them why there religion is better then the others.The real essence of this question is that you're infusing logic into a discussion in which logic has no use. Religion is about faith - or really - feelings. People feel that they're right - I'm sorry - I mean have faith in their god.

[crowTrobot 2]

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[jmkiser 0]

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I've always thought areas of philosophy and science to be separate. I'm pretty clueless, though. I'm also a little ignorant on our detailed knowledge of things like altruism. Do you have any simple suggested reading for someone as myself to catch up on what the scientific community has discovered about these topics?

[herokid7 0]

biblical christianity is primarily about embracing god and accepting jesus as your savior (works alone yada yada). following jesus' moral example while we're here on earth is just part of the obedience required to accomplish that. it is certainly not the primary focus of biblical christianity. overall the bible de-emphesizes this life.

Actually, you are very wrong. Jesus talks more about this life than the afterlife by a long shot. Do you realize that Jesus spoke more about money management than anything? Why? Because that's what the peoples concerns were most on. There is no currency in Heaven, so he was obviously speaking about this life. The entire book of Psalms is pretty much praises anc concerns prayed to God that He might do something on earth. The book of Proverbs is totally about how to gain wisdom, while on earth. Following Jesus' moral example has nothing to do with accepting him as your savior. Once you accept Jesus, he washes your sins away and sets a place for you in Heaven. But, how you live your life after that it totally up to you. Jesus' moral example was an example for us to follow as the best way to live life here. As he said, "I have come to give you life, and life more abundantly." Following the example that Jesus set is how we get life more abundantly. Because the way of Jesus is the best possible way to live. If anything the Bible emphasizes this life and de-emphasizes the after life. Why else do you think that John the Baptist and Jesus always said the "The Kingdom of God is coming" and not "We will get to the Kingdom of God one day."

[herokid7 0]

biblical christianity is primarily about embracing god and accepting jesus as your savior (works alone yada yada). following jesus' moral example while we're here on earth is just part of the obedience required to accomplish that. it is certainly not the primary focus of biblical christianity. overall the bible de-emphesizes this life.

Actually, you are very wrong. Jesus talks more about this life than the afterlife by a long shot. Do you realize that Jesus spoke more about money management than anything? Why? Because that's what the peoples concerns were most on. There is no currency in Heaven, so he was obviously speaking about this life. The entire book of Psalms is pretty much praises anc concerns prayed to God that He might do something on earth. The book of Proverbs is totally about how to gain wisdom, while on earth. Following Jesus' moral example has nothing to do with accepting him as your savior. Once you accept Jesus, he washes your sins away and sets a place for you in Heaven. But, how you live your life after that it totally up to you. Jesus' moral example was an example for us to follow as the best way to live life here. As he said, "I have come to give you life, and life more abundantly." Following the example that Jesus set is how we get life more abundantly. Because the way of Jesus is the best possible way to live. If anything the Bible emphasizes this life and de-emphasizes the after life. Why else do you think that John the Baptist and Jesus always said the "The Kingdom of God is coming" and not "We will get to the Kingdom of God one day."

[jmkiser 0]

Actually, you are very wrong. Jesus talks more about this life than the afterlife by a long shot.

So you mean to tell me that this life is more important then after-life?

[herokid7 0]

So you mean to tell me that this life is more important then after-life?

Very much so. What you do in this life determines where you will spend the afterlife. So, therefore, this life is the test, the afterlife is just the grade, pass or fail.