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Levels Of Thinking


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Sorry if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find anything by searching on this subject.So the topic is levels of thinking, and bare with me as I want to be sure I ask this correctly.To start off there is level 1-"What do I think he has" Level 2-"What does he think I have?" and then level 3-"What does he think, I think he has?"now is level three the same as "What does he WANT me to think he has"? and to piggyback that question, does anyone have lots of experience using this level and paying attention to the outcome, ie...he wants me to think he has X, but he ended up having Y, or would you say most of the time he actually had X? Or there is no real way to quantify it? Obviously this type of hand analysis does not apply on every hand, some hands play out obviously, some you have no choice but to fold so your thought process ends early. Also, I would add that I am asking about general poker players, I am not talking about playing against someone like Farha.So to recap the main point of this thread....Is level 3 the same as "What does he WANT me to think he has?"TIA

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awesome, thanks for showing me your earlier post....still didnt answer my orig question though....is level 3 (your level 4) the same as what does he WANT me to think he has? Or if I am trying to think on that level should I just ask both questions and go from there?

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lol, simo's just showing off now.imo, What he WANTS you to think he has is the same as what he THINKS you think he has, effectively.The only variance being how well he reads his ability to steer you towards his WANTSTheres times I want people to think I have a weak hand and some players may read me as such based on the betting patterns I've shown, while others could have another read on me. And maybe I forget who would be which ones.
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This is an extra-ordinary bluff by Simo.See.. by posting this, he is getting us to think that he is an amazing poker player. If we're one level above him, then we have to think that he thinks we're shallow enough to believe that he is able to think about poker on this level.If Simo is actually that good, though, he's already thinking that we're going to think he's bluffing by posting this. That's how we fall into his trap... just wait for FWP to challenge Simo heads up for rolls.You'll see.You'll all see.
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I don't know if i can answer you question very well with a hold'em example, but I can pull one up from seven card stud hi/lo.I know a player who is pretty good at the game and he knows that i know my way around. A pot comes up where I have (A-4)-7-J-8 and he has (x-x)-6-A-2. He checked fifth street and so did I. On 6th street, he caught an 6 and i caught a 5. Now I have made my low here and given that he checked on fifth street and bet when i caught a repeat 6, most players would think that their low is good and they are up against a high hand like three sixes. But I actually figured that by fifth street, he had a low and probably a 6 low or 7 low. Accordingly, he checked to represent that he didn't have a low and gave me a free card, knowing full well that if i made my low, his would be better. When I finally caught my low, he WANTED me to think that he has a high hand (perhaps trips or aces up). However, I was fairly sure that if he had aces up, he'd bet fifth street. Similarly, if he had a hand like (4-6)-6-A-2, he still would have bet. So what I'm supposed to do here is think that he has a high only. But I suppose I applied this 3rd (or fourth) level of psychology to the situation and threw away my hand. I suppose that this would arise in hold'em if your opponent flopped a flush draw on a flop like : Ks-Kh-9s. In this situation, he probably will bet in the hope that I will think that he has a king. That's what he WANTS me to think that he has. If I come out raising, he probably will think that, either I have a king myself, or alternatively, he thinks that I think he has nothing by a flush draw.Accordingly, I'd say they are seperate and distinct. But then again, it's more important to recognise situations where you need to apply levels of psychology rather than looking for situations to apply them. Those who get tricky with these areas often end up broke, but telling everyone how well they understood the situation. These are the sorts of players who put their opponent on top pair, top kicker (Correctly) and then try to move their opponent off their hand.

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I don't "think" it's about levels of thinking, it's more about level of feeling. You naturally aquire information, some people more naturally than others, but as we learn what to watch the aquisition of that info comes easier and easier. You get a feel by the way a person bets, the ammount he bets, the ammount of time he take to bet, information from each street, from each hand you've seen that player play, or possibly even people you've seen play with a similar style, that helps you come to a conclusion, is he bluffing, would he fold to a reraise, is he weak but would still call a reraise because he has put me on a hand, or will he play back at me becasue he definatley has me on a different hand, is he on a draw and should i just call here to push him out on the next card, should i continue to let him try to bluff me as i sit with the nuts because as soon as i raise he's out.... You get a feel for the correct questions and answers the more you play, the more you watch, and the more you focus on learning how to store those little jewels of information (hand histories) away in your mind... And the answer comes to you... daniel had wrote a tip on going with your gut... Poker players have natural instincts, it's important to take the time to assess your thoughts, but many times we can think ourselves out of the correct play...

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