I'm Not Sure....

[jmbreslin 0]

....but I think this game may be silly.I've been playing a fair bit of micro stakes PLO8 lately and it just seems pointless. I focus on playing hands that have a decent chance of winning a high and low hand, so 80% of the time I'm either throwing away hands preflop or (more often) seeing a flop with a good/decent starting hand and having to throw it away postflop when it turns into garbage. Of the remaining 20%, about 18% is spent either losing pots, splitting good pots for tiny profits, or winning small pots. So it seems like playing this game is basically a whole lot of waiting for the rare situation when you actually get to scoop a pot or quarter someone. Most of the time I end my session about even or maybe a bit up or down. Pointless.Maybe the issue is that this game requires more patience than other poker games and I don't have enough time to devote to each session to make it worthwhile. Or maybe the game is just silly.Thoughts?

[craiger 0]

Hi-lo games are in general very technically demanding and way more complicated then straight hi games. The important thing to remember about PLO8 is that a hand like AKQJ double suited is only HALF a hand. I'm not saying throw this away, but be prepared to split a pot with someone going crazy with A-2 xx (as someone ALWAYS does). This is why you have to play very aggressively in this game; pushing people off mediocre or even decent low draws is very important. The main thing to remember is that when you get a good hi + lo hand like AK2K or AA2Q, you really need to push it hard so you can extract the most value out of that rare situation. You are correct when you say this game takes more patience than other games. I play PLO8 tourneys all the time, and on average they take about 30% to 50% longer to finish, because there are so many f*cking split pots. I stay with Omaha hi for cash games.

[ahosang 0]

Interesting that you post this just when I've been researching and thinking more about PLO8 recently.Probably the most profitable conditions online are on PLO8 tables. The pots may be split, but you are winning more and losing less from bad players. Its incredibly important to remember that the 'big hands' you were talking about are just a part of the game. The value in the game comes from betting 4-card hands and bluffing/bluff catching. You are playing too tight...

[jmbreslin 0]

The important thing to remember about PLO8 is that a hand like AKQJ double suited is only HALF a hand. I'm not saying throw this away, but be prepared to split a pot with someone going crazy with A-2 xx (as someone ALWAYS does).

Which is a big part of what is so annoying about it. If you loosen up your starting hands a bit to include high-only or low-only hands, you basically just increase the number of split pots. Loosen up too much and you risk getting quartered or hitting a good hand and losing to the nuts.Oh, and in my original post I forgot to include the additional annoying scenario of hitting the nut low and then having it counterfeited. You start with something like AsTs2hKc, the flop comes 5c7d9d (so much for your high potential), the turn is an 8 (yay, hit the nut low!), and then a 2 falls on the river (congrats, your hand is now junk).

[jmbreslin 0]

Interesting that you post this just when I've been researching and thinking more about PLO8 recently.Probably the most profitable conditions online are on PLO8 tables. The pots may be split, but you are winning more and losing less from bad players. Its incredibly important to remember that the 'big hands' you were talking about are just a part of the game. The value in the game comes from betting 4-card hands and bluffing/bluff catching. You are playing too tight...

I've read the same thing about PLO8, that it's potentially more profitable than NLHE because low stakes players have no knowledge of hand selection and so with smart hand selection yourself you can count on being able to scoop pots. The problem is, those scoopable hands seem so few and far between, irrespective of what the donks are playing.I don't think I'm playing too tight, but I may be playing too passively. Perhaps I'm not taking advantage of semi-bluff opportunities enough.

[ahosang 0]

I've read the same thing about PLO8, that it's potentially more profitable than NLHE because low stakes players have no knowledge of hand selection and so with smart hand selection yourself you can count on being able to scoop pots. The problem is, those scoopable hands seem so few and far between, irrespective of what the donks are playing.I don't think I'm playing too tight, but I may be playing too passively. Perhaps I'm not taking advantage of semi-bluff opportunities enough.

nut-nut is actually quite hard to achieve. Look at raising most playable hands pre-flop, especially when in position. Look at winning pots with non-nut hands. Consider that the ace is the most powerful card in hi-lo...

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I think I show most of my profit by pushing people off of draws with made lo or high hands, or by betting enough to give them incorect pot odds and when they chase and miss it. Having the made lo and freerolling for the high or taking it down with something as small as a pair sometimes. Overall I'd say in a bad session I lose/win little, but in good sessions I win big. I've built almost my entire roll in this game fwiw

[litlebullet 0]

5k hands of 2/4 and I'm down -.4bb/100, easily mitigated by rakeback. I gotta keep going. I'm on the verge of some kind of breakthru. I still suck at the game though

[Rocketwadster 0]

If you think PLO8 is a waiting game, try playing Stud 8...now THAT takes patience...

[checkymcfold 0]

asohang is hinting at the good stuff here.if you guys are feeling like you're just folding your way to glory in PLO8, try to open up a bit with hands that make broadway or overboats, otherwise known as the high only hands. if you play them aggressively, and flop, say, top set, the low can't be made yet and you can make a low draw make a mistake by calling huge bets for half the pot. in limit o8 you have to be a bit more wary of high only hands, since it's tougher to price low draws out, but in NL/PLO8, hands with big pairs and connectors are where i make most of my money.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Look at winning pots with non-nut hands.

The problem here is that many times when you have non-nut hands, the nut hand is out there against you, especially multi-way. For example, I lost three $100 buy-ins in 3 laps with second-nut flush with nut low (quartered as nut flush was there with nut low - 2 players), nut straight with second-nut flush re-draw and second nut-low (lost it all when nut low and nut flush got there 2-players), and second nut flush with second nut low (lost to nut flush and nut low - 2 players). My hands would be considered huge, and while I haven't checked the math to see what my percentages could have been, they had to be good against the ranges of my opponents. lost of money to be made at this game, I agree, but the fluctuations can be huge.