How Bad Is Men The Master, According To Daniel?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

..and if this whole thing is about race, why was John Juanda(a man of Asian descent*) one of Men's biggest detractors when the cheating scandal all shook down? *allegedly

[seemorenuts 0]

..and if this whole thing is about race, why was John Juanda(a man of Asian descent*) one of Men's biggest detractors when the cheating scandal all shook down? *allegedly

Hey, great question, did I say I knew anything whatsoever about whether Men cheated? No.Did the points raised in my post hinge on whether he cheated or not? No.I believe you introduced the concept of 'whole' rather disingenuously....UPDATE: THIS POY SHAM SHOULD EMBARRASS ALL POKER PLAYERS EXCEPT THE LIKES OF DN WHO HAD THE GUTS TO TELL MEN TO HIS FACE WHAT HE THOUGHT.I THINK MEN SHOULD BE BANNED PERMANENTLY WITH ALL THE OTHER CHEATERS. NOTWITHSTANDING LACK OF DUE PROCESS, HA HA ... Edited January 15, 2008 by seemorenuts

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Hey, great question, did I say I knew anything whatsoever about whether Men cheated? No.Did the points raised in my post hinge on whether he cheated or not? No.So you answer this--could any of the current confessed cheaters ever win POY, ever?Simple question, worthwhile question, and for the 3rd time, ignore race, because you get confused.

Uhh..I'd ignore race if you didn't bring it up in every rant. Could Justin Bonomo(Zee Justin, FYI) win POY, ever? Yes. And he'd crush it if he played the schedule Men does.

[psujohn 0]

Wait was seemore always a raving lunatic/troll or is this a new thing?

[seemorenuts 0]

Simple question, please provide a simple answer.men cheated, i see now, never mind!

[seemorenuts 0]

[seemorenuts 0]

Uhh..I'd ignore race if you didn't bring it up in every rant. Could Justin Bonomo(Zee Justin, FYI) win POY, ever? Yes. And he'd crush it if he played the schedule Men does.

If you are correct about the eligibility being intact, then that's one less incentive not to cheat.Show me the rant, where's the rant? I think you are wrong, do you know what rant means?

[kkot 0]

How many POYs will be labeled bad players in the next 20 years?Simple question, please provide a simple answer.

Probably not very many. How many POYs will be labeled cheaters in the next 20 years?Simple question, please provide a simple answer.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

How many POYs will be labeled bad players in the next 20 years?Simple question, please provide a simple answer.

It took you 19 lines to get to the question..yikes.. 2007 - David Pham2006 - Michael Mizrachi2005 - Men Nguyen2004 - Daniel Negreanu I'm positive you can find threads on this forum calling all of those players bad except for maybe David Pham. I think people universally respect David Pham.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

If you are correct about the eligibility being intact, then that's one less incentive not to cheat.Show me the rant, where's the rant? I think you are wrong, do you know what rant means?

You truly are delusional, aren't you?

[seemorenuts 0]

[thebottomline 0]

How many POYs will be labeled bad players in the next 20 years?Simple question, please provide a simple answer.

How is that a simple question? It's an unanswerable question. First of all, you're asking us to predict the future, compounding that, there are so many things that have changed in the poker world in the last 5-10 years alone that predicting 20 years ahead is impossible.

[TB17 0]

so who's racist towards asians here?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

A few minutes into the show, Bob?

Is this an actual question?

So how well do you have to play to get props as an Asian male?

I dunno for sure..Ask the Full Tilt endorsed John Juanda, Johnny Freakin' Chan, YOUR TWO TIME CARD PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!! Men Nguyen, Kenny Tran(The best live NLHE player around right now), last year's CardPlayer POTY David Pham..they could probably tell you..or maybe Kido Pham--err..not such a good example.

Let's see, be at the top of the points race in tournaments, or win the WSOP ME twice in a row?

Those things sure are prestigious.

How weak is Men the Master anyhow?

Never played him.

should I take lessons from Men?

That's not really my call, but I wouldn't want to be associated with him. There. Better?

[I_fold08 1]

did anyone else use to get men Ngyeun and minh Ngyeun mixed up?

[seemorenuts 0]

It was Daniel who had the insight (and for this I am truly amazed and impressed) and courage to state that Asian men and women get less respect than others in poker.If you question this claim, direct your skepticism at him, not me. My experiences and observations merely confirm what he has stated.Getting back to the issues:1. How bad is Men at poker?2. If he can't be as good as others because he played a very full schedule, what should be the metric be instead? Should smaller buyin tournaments be reduced in value? Was the math flawed or was the model designed to maximize tournament revenue? 3. Known instances of badly played hands of Men (examples please)... are they put into context of long-term goals (table image, etc.)?4. Did FCP ever get closure on this $5k match, did it need any?5. Do other minorities here dare to report biases, or will the flaming in this forum prevent them from wanting to report real examples? Does the absence of reports imply absence in the real world?6. New issue: do you think the ethnic jokes during the heads up portion of the 2007 WSOP Main Event at this forum was classy, typical or emblematic of cultural norms? Would you be proud of that thread if for instance another ethnic minority was insulted? The two remaining players were Asian (for those of you who are not into poker ).

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Too far, Bob? Really?

[Dratj 0]

Hmmm. I don't know where to start.

[Bearw8 0]

Take a look at the questions in the OP. Take your time answering them, I'll wait for a year.

For the sake of making people laugh, someone please remember to do this.

[TB17 0]

In my experience, I get respected less because I'm asian, or maybe it's because I'm young, I dunno. I'm not talking about being respected as a person, just as a poker player.Or maybe because Ima donkey, I dunno. It really works out for me when they call me down with mid pair tho.

[socalpoker_j 1]

In my experience, I get respected less because I'm asian, or maybe it's because I'm young, I dunno. I'm not talking about being respected as a person, just as a poker player.Or maybe because Ima donkey, I dunno. It really works out for me when they call me down with mid pair tho.

The live NL games that I play in have a relatively small pool of players, and most of the players are familiar with each others games. However, it seems that they always suspect I "Don't have it this time" and I get looked up light and 3 bet really light based on the merits above in spots that would be a clear fold against other players (obviously I'm thankful for this image). It seems that they diminish their standard of play based on the notion that I'm some gamboooling, young Asian who never has a hand. It works spectacularly to my advantage in that I can play off this image and make sicko v-bets and know I'm getting paid by inferior hands.

[grocery_mony 8]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gamblin...958ed981e71d142

OP should really read through all of this and see why there is contempt for Men. When you get done there go over to 2+2 and search the numerous threads about players expiriences with Men in regards to angle shooting, repeatidly trying to short pots he has lost, aiming to purposley muck other players card when discarding his etc,etc.

[seemorenuts 0]

I know in the past he was accused many times of having his horses dump chips to him in tournies. And he plays all the $500, etc. events against nobody's also that most of the other pros don't play to get all those points.

I only know that when I was at one week-long event where Men appeared, playing with nobodies (there's no apostrophe) several other pros played in the small tournaments too: McEvoy and Johnston were at my table in either a $100 or $200 buy in tournament when I got a Royal Flush. If McEvoy was player of the year, it would be due to a heavy schedule, probably ditto for Ferguson and many others, but I don't think you'll hear them being put down for playing so many tournaments.I don't know if the other big names there played in the smaller tournaments, but Estfandiari, Unibomber, Flack were there...I seem to recall that the rumor was that Men deliberately would go all in early and bust out of a tournament or two, being criticized for something rather opposite of playing to WIN smaller tournaments... that he'd just show up to earn an appearance check and do the minimum required... of course, I have no proof, but it's funny how he can be criticized for opposite alleged behaviors. I hope confirmed cheaters in the poker world experience more tolerance and forgiveness. Poor bonomo, there there...

[seemorenuts 0]

OP should really read through all of this and see why there is contempt for Men. When you get done there go over to 2+2 and search the numerous threads about players expiriences with Men in regards to angle shooting, repeatidly trying to short pots he has lost, aiming to purposley muck other players card when discarding his etc,etc.

I'm not totally oblivious to the matter of contempt for Men.It doesn't change anything about my questions.Do you see why? Look at the original post again, please.update, thread rendered moot. Men has not proven to me that he has the ability to be a legit POY.

[irishguy 14]

I only know that when I was at one week-long event where Men appeared, playing with nobodies (there's no apostrophe) several other pros played in the small tournaments too: McEvoy and Johnston were at my table in either a $100 or $200 buy in tournament when I got a Royal Flush. If McEvoy was player of the year, it would be due to a heavy schedule, probably ditto for Ferguson and many others, but I don't think you'll hear them being put down for playing so many tournaments.I don't know if the other big names there played in the smaller tournaments, but Estfandiari, Unibomber, Flack were there...I seem to recall that the rumor was that Men deliberately would go all in early and bust out of a tournament or two, being criticized for something rather opposite of playing to WIN smaller tournaments... that he'd just show up to earn an appearance check and do the minimum required... of course, I have no proof, but it's funny how he can be criticized for opposite alleged behaviors. I hope confirmed cheaters in the poker world experience more tolerance and forgiveness. Poor bonomo, there there...

Do you honestly believe that because Bonomo cheated online as an uderager he should be ineligible for live tournament awards which are based off of point standings? I really hope you can see the difference here. There are many well respected Asain poker pro's and I assure you the problem many have with Men has zero to do with ethnicity.