Can't Sleep Over This...

[Cappy37 0]

We're past the money bubble and if we win this hand, we're the chip leader. My hand range for shoving is pretty tight here; QQ-AA/AK is my range. I'd lay down AQ/JJ and on down to his shove if we had reraised after the original shortie shoved.As played, I would think hard about widening our range to JJ/AQs with a shortie all-in and a call behind, we're inviting an aggressive player to reraise with a wider range and isolate against the shortie with our dead money in the pot.

Cappy, I think you're missing that the allin and call is only for 3.5bb. That's small. Put yourself in the bigstack's seat, and analyse what range you would, could and should isolate with.

You know I <3 and respect both of you, your accomplishments in the game, and your contributions to the forum. I'm not a "tourney expert" by any stretch of the imagination.The whole "I'm never folding AK" mantra originated in regards to $4.40s, and it should stay there. It's sound advice at that level. It's not here.I don't *care* about putting myself in the big blind's shoes at this point. He's not isolating with King-Jack or Ace-Five here. I'm not shoving almost 50 BBs because "He might have AQ". That's *insane*.Put ourselves in *our* shoes. Raise your hand if you shove 50 BBs over the shorty shove with 3 left of act behind you. Yeah, not a lot of hands in the air, is there? Why is that? "Teacher, what if someone wakes up with strength behind us?".... "Good point, Timmy!"..So...................................Why in Gods name do we shove AFTER someone behind us has shown strength and a willingness to pot-commit himself against the only guy at the table who can significantly dent his stack?.................... He might have AQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No.Just... no...Please, God... no....Given our read on villain, the range of hands we are actually ahead of is slim to none. The range of hands we are taking the fuzz end of the coinflip lollipop on are.. significant.We need to ask the OP if his AK was soooted, because the "edges" we pretend we are "exploiting" her are almost as minimal as the edges we get if he's soooted with the AK.You guys are better than this, really. I *know* you are. If you are on the leaderboard of a major tournament with a green zone M and 50 big blinds, there is no way in gods green earth you should be pleading to lee jones for an Ace for your tournament life the next hand.That's plain silly. If villain got that stack through aggrodonking with JTs and pocket fives, then yes, let's expand the range and salivate at this spot. But we have seen how solid villain is first hand.If I'm too nitty for your taste, I can accept that. I'll stick to my re-steals when I have a more favorable villain, who isn't getting 2 and a quarter to 1 to look me up to put himself in a monstrous chiplead.

[Marc-O 0]

I now feel retarded, and should stick to 5 card draw

[Cappy37 0]

I now feel retarded, and should stick to 5 card draw

lol hey now. Don't quit now. We still haven't figured out who's right. :)You've posted an *excellent* question and a very difficult spot to be in.You had ~90 seconds to go with your gut/head. We've had 2 days.We're still bickering. What does that tell you about how difficult this decision is? Be proud. Who knows, you may even have made the proper play.

[onlyme386 0]

First of all, I agree with most everyone that your best play here is to raise rather than call the initial all in to isolate. This gives you information so that you can figure out exactly where you are in the hand. Something around 20-24k will do the job.Next, you say you are in the cutoff, which leaves 3 people left to act behind you. What were the stack sizes of the other 2 (we know the big stack in BB, but what about button and SB?). This is relevant because they may find a hand that can also call preflop of 1 shover which puts you in a strange spot post flop with a small main pot and dry side pot, maybe out of position. This is just one more argument for raising the shover.Once you've raised, and the BB shoves on you, you can be SURE that you are beat or at best flipping a coin. Do you really want to take a coin flip against the only player at your table who can eliminate you? You'd be getting pretty good odds (1k sb, 7.5k short stack, 20k raise from you, 95k from BB and 75k for you to call, so about 1.5:1) This is not an insta-call at this point, you need to have 40% equity against his range for this to be a good call.Using pokerstove, giving you AK suited (you didn't specify, will give benefit of the doubt) and putting the CL on JJ+ and AK, you have 42% equity, making it a slightly above break even play. But when we add in a random hand (short stack is probably shoving just about any 2 cards) your equity drops to 33.7% which results in this math.Main pot Equity (main pot = 1k sb + 7500 short stackx3 = 23500):Hero 33.7% or 7919 chipsChip Leader 44.7% or 10504 chipsShort Stack 21.6% or 5076 chipsSide pot Equity (side pot = 87500x2 = 175000):Hero 42% or 73500Chip leader 58% or 101500Therefore, combining your equity for the side and main pots, you're at 81419. If you fold your going to be at 75k (this all assumes you raised to 20k), so you would be correct to call the shove by the chip leader at this point. This is the "best" way to play the hand from a CHIP VALUE perspective. However, and this is what Cappy was getting at, it doesn't work very well from a $ VALUE perspective. You said we are top 10 in chips with 375 left, so we have a GREAT stack at this point and have a TON of $value based on that. The tournament had 4257 players, and started with 3000 chip stacks, so with 375 players left the average stack was about 34k. You have nearly triple that. Checking the tournament payouts, 373rd paid $350. If you get all in and lose to the big stack now, you're taking $350 and going home disappointed. If you live to see another day, let's say you bust when your current stack is the average stack (your expected value is to go deeper than this as you should be able to chip up and take some gambles with smaller stacks to increase, but we'll be conservative) there will be 135 players remaining which would pay $681, about twice what you make if you bust now. So looking at it this way, you're getting about 2:1 on your $ VALUE. Obviously nothing is absolute in poker so this is certainly flawed, and we are playing to WIN the tournament not make small cashes. However, cappy's point is valid for a lot of satellite players who are in the tournament for $26 and the difference from $350 to $700 is quite a lot. Overall, the expected value would be a tossup depending on if the smaller cash values are significant to you. Personally, I raise the original shover and call the all in shove by the CL with a positive expected chip value, because I believe in always playing to WIN not to move up a few levels on the payout scale.If you, or anyone else, have any questions about the equity equations I used above, please PM me as I might not read this thread again and I will be glad to explain what I did or correct anything I may have done wrong.

[bigcoled 1]

I think it's pretty simple... I'm safe in saying you are too willing to committ too many of your chips preflop... Real poker is played after the flop... If you really want to get deep in these donkaments, looks for spots to get yourself ahead after the flop and leave the preflop allins, and preflop over analysis to the railbirds...

[gobears 0]

I looked at the hand again to see if I missed something and to me, the position of the players is the key. The shortie in the hijack open shoves. Basically, his range is ATC here. Now what is our range for a call or a raise? Whether we call or raise from the CO, the players behind us have to think that we could be making a move to pick up the shorties' dead money in the pot. By just calling, our hand really looks weak; either that or we hold a monster like AA/KK and we're trapping.I'm pretty sure that the big stack when he raises from the BB has a very wide range on my hand and this would be an excellent play to isolate against the shortie (it's what I would do seeing this action in front of me). Since we have position, we have to at least call here and see the flop. We get to act after the villain and if an ace or kings flops, then obviously we go to the mat. There's no way we fold AK to a raise from the BB after a shortie shove and overcall by us in position. The way the hand was played, my range on villain is much wider as he hasn't seen any strength in front of him - he could have two overcards that we dominate like AQ/KQ/KJ/AJ besides the PP's that are a slight favorite to our hand. We have FE if we shove over his raise if he has one of the weaker hands.As played, we either shove or call based on the range above. I still like the shove but I can see calling here in position and seeing a flop if we want to be conservative.Now if we had raised and the big stack shoves over us - I still think that the big stack's range is looser than JJ+, AK+ which based on onlyme's pokerstove stats, we are basically at break even. Tourney life vs having the chip lead. We can't underestimate the value of having the chip lead either if we win the hand, this is huge. Loosen up his range just a tad to Tens, AQ+ and it becomes much more ev+ which I know is different from tev. Now Phil Hellmuth might fold here but many of the math players who play longball wouldn't. That being said, my calling range of a shove in this scenario which didn't happen would be AA-QQ/AK while Cappy's was AA-QQ. That's pretty close if you think about it.Finally, I was 50bbs deep in the past WCOOP #1 and in the money so similar to this spot. I had snapped off another player twice and when he raised pre from the hijack, I raised back with JJ from the BB and he shoved and had me covered. I loosened my range of that player since I felt that he was probably getting frustrated and called and watched him turn over 88. Be very careful in how you set ranges for opponents especially if they have you covered - they know that you don't want to go home.

[onlyme386 0]

I think it's pretty simple... I'm safe in saying you are too willing to committ too many of your chips preflop... Real poker is played after the flop... If you really want to get deep in these donkaments, looks for spots to get yourself ahead after the flop and leave the preflop allins, and preflop over analysis to the railbirds...

This is not helpful in the least bit as it doesn't do a damn thing to help the analysis of the hand that is going on. Yeah, it's great to wait till post flop but at what point in the hand does that seem like a good option? You must be one of those people who limps PF constantly?

[TravisG 0]

You know I <3 and respect both of you, your accomplishments in the game, and your contributions to the forum. I'm not a "tourney expert" by any stretch of the imagination.The whole "I'm never folding AK" mantra originated in regards to $4.40s, and it should stay there. It's sound advice at that level. It's not here.I don't *care* about putting myself in the big blind's shoes at this point. He's not isolating with King-Jack or Ace-Five here. I'm not shoving almost 50 BBs because "He might have AQ". That's *insane*.Put ourselves in *our* shoes. Raise your hand if you shove 50 BBs over the shorty shove with 3 left of act behind you. Yeah, not a lot of hands in the air, is there? Why is that? "Teacher, what if someone wakes up with strength behind us?".... "Good point, Timmy!"..So...................................Why in Gods name do we shove AFTER someone behind us has shown strength and a willingness to pot-commit himself against the only guy at the table who can significantly dent his stack?.................... He might have AQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No.Just... no...Please, God... no....Given our read on villain, the range of hands we are actually ahead of is slim to none. The range of hands we are taking the fuzz end of the coinflip lollipop on are.. significant.We need to ask the OP if his AK was soooted, because the "edges" we pretend we are "exploiting" her are almost as minimal as the edges we get if he's soooted with the AK.You guys are better than this, really. I *know* you are. If you are on the leaderboard of a major tournament with a green zone M and 50 big blinds, there is no way in gods green earth you should be pleading to lee jones for an Ace for your tournament life the next hand.That's plain silly. If villain got that stack through aggrodonking with JTs and pocket fives, then yes, let's expand the range and salivate at this spot. But we have seen how solid villain is first hand.If I'm too nitty for your taste, I can accept that. I'll stick to my re-steals when I have a more favorable villain, who isn't getting 2 and a quarter to 1 to look me up to put himself in a monstrous chiplead.

10/10.simply think about it. you will pick so many $$$$ up by just sticking to the small-midstacks. don't mess with the big bro.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

Cappy, his range is too big. If he's a solid player, he's always raising AQ, AJ in this spot. I know I am. There is absolutely no reason to suppose Marc_O has a big hand. A small all-in and a call. He should put Marc_O's range at A9+, 66+ at the smallest. Therefore Marc_O's AK becomes a huge hand compared to the big stack's range. Pushing is by far the best play.

[Cappy37 0]

I think Onlyme his the nail on the head with the idea that many of us simply have different "goals" and "value" of money/tourney position.The public has spoken: re-raising PF is the proper play. I like min-raising, because it's the only raise that doesn't commit us to the hand that shows strength. We eliminate the riff-raff and let anyone else know there will be a sidepot to play for.It's still waay too early to believe the big stack is willing to go deep into a pot with AJ/AQ multiway. I'm sorry, but you'll never budge me on this. He's solid, and I'm not flipping a coin for 50 BBs this early against a range that narrow. He doesn't show up with AQ here enough to go tourney life.And yes, min-popping the shorty all-in makes this all a much, much easier decision. If he's making a move, yay him and we'll have that information for the next time he does it. Our stack is already triple the tourney average, there is plenty of free FIV and bullying money to be had to make this our last stand.This isnt the only opporunity we will have to increase our chips stack.Show me someone who trusts in the math more than themself, and I'll show you a 9% ITM rate and someone who's on their eighth keyboard for the year already.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

Cappy you don't have to budge, but it's a leak. AQ is always always always in his range unless he is playing way too tight. I agree that +ev is not the only thing to look at in tournament decisions, but this is such a profitable situation it's bad to fold. Basically, everything gobears said is right. His latest post is the class of the thread and outlines exactly why you can't fold in this spot.

[Cappy37 0]

Cappy, his range is too big. If he's a solid player, he's always raising AQ, AJ in this spot. I know I am. There is absolutely no reason to suppose Marc_O has a big hand. A small all-in and a call. He should put Marc_O's range at A9+, 66+ at the smallest. Therefore Marc_O's AK becomes a huge hand compared to the big stack's range. Pushing is by far the best play.

Yup, if you are into that "maximum risk, minimum reward" approach to MTTs. The "Payoff" is the big stack willing to toss half his stack in the middle with an unmade hand worse than your unmade hand, after you've fired 50 big blinds into the middle. That's still a huge assumption. Since we have to give him credit for being able to laydown AQ/AJ after we raise, we're risking 90 to win 25-30. If you're cool with that, start firing 5-6x BB raises PF, too. You'll eiliminate most hands that aren't crushing you PF. It's fool proof.

[Cappy37 0]

Cappy you don't have to budge, but it's a leak. AQ is always always always in his range unless he is playing way too tight. I agree that +ev is not the only thing to look at in tournament decisions, but this is such a profitable situation it's bad to fold. Basically, everything gobears said is right. His latest post is the class of the thread and outlines exactly why you can't fold in this spot.

His latest post outlines exactly why you can put your tourney life on the line with JJ much easier than AK. You're looking at at *least* 5-6 pairs lower than yours that make this move, which you have crushed. I agree with that logic 100%. Not raising PF makes this a much tougher spot to be in if it should. We have extremely limited information. If he's willing to make a move in a clear side-pot situation with the 2nd biggest stack at the table, and you're willing to stack off on the idea he's got AJ/AQ, then best of luck to you. There's always another 180 man ready to fire up.

[Sheiky 0]

I agree with Cappy entirely.I think the CL's range is far tighter than what a lot of people think it is due to the fact the only active person in the hand can take away half of his stack. You also both have a lot of chips so he's under no pressure to get all the OPs money in the pot, you two could very easily play a normal pot here regardless of the hijack's shove. If he sees the button as weak, then he can flat call with AQ 99 etc and play aggresively after the flop. Flat calling here and betting the flop pretty much regardless of it's texture acomplishes much the same as re-raising pre does but for cheaper because the button has to be scared that he can go bust in the hand. The BB is also betting into a dry side pot which generaly makes opponenets give up easier if they don't have anything.

[Marc-O 0]

I think it's pretty simple... I'm safe in saying you are too willing to committ too many of your chips preflop... Real poker is played after the flop... If you really want to get deep in these donkaments, looks for spots to get yourself ahead after the flop and leave the preflop allins, and preflop over analysis to the railbirds...

Maybe I did not clairfy that my first instinct was that he was making a move on me? and i felt his range was a small pair or weaker ace which is def a coin flip.... but since he was so solid, and I figured he had the same image on me, that he would see that my Re-Pop all in would mean that I am super strong....( AA, KK, QQ ) even though i was holding AK..... i wanted him to put me on AA, KK, QQ.... therefore fold and I would pick up a nice pot off of his raise preflop........as far as the comment "real poker is played after the flop".........i could argue this a number of points in this specific hand... but what i just stated in my opinion is "real poker" and quite a thought process

[Marc-O 0]

I looked at the hand again to see if I missed something and to me, the position of the players is the key. The shortie in the hijack open shoves. Basically, his range is ATC here. Now what is our range for a call or a raise? Whether we call or raise from the CO, the players behind us have to think that we could be making a move to pick up the shorties' dead money in the pot. By just calling, our hand really looks weak; either that or we hold a monster like AA/KK and we're trapping.I'm pretty sure that the big stack when he raises from the BB has a very wide range on my hand and this would be an excellent play to isolate against the shortie (it's what I would do seeing this action in front of me). Since we have position, we have to at least call here and see the flop. We get to act after the villain and if an ace or kings flops, then obviously we go to the mat. There's no way we fold AK to a raise from the BB after a shortie shove and overcall by us in position. The way the hand was played, my range on villain is much wider as he hasn't seen any strength in front of him - he could have two overcards that we dominate like AQ/KQ/KJ/AJ besides the PP's that are a slight favorite to our hand. We have FE if we shove over his raise if he has one of the weaker hands.As played, we either shove or call based on the range above. I still like the shove but I can see calling here in position and seeing a flop if we want to be conservative.Now if we had raised and the big stack shoves over us - I still think that the big stack's range is looser than JJ+, AK+ which based on onlyme's pokerstove stats, we are basically at break even. Tourney life vs having the chip lead. We can't underestimate the value of having the chip lead either if we win the hand, this is huge. Loosen up his range just a tad to Tens, AQ+ and it becomes much more ev+ which I know is different from tev. Now Phil Hellmuth might fold here but many of the math players who play longball wouldn't. That being said, my calling range of a shove in this scenario which didn't happen would be AA-QQ/AK while Cappy's was AA-QQ. That's pretty close if you think about it.Finally, I was 50bbs deep in the past WCOOP #1 and in the money so similar to this spot. I had snapped off another player twice and when he raised pre from the hijack, I raised back with JJ from the BB and he shoved and had me covered. I loosened my range of that player since I felt that he was probably getting frustrated and called and watched him turn over 88. Be very careful in how you set ranges for opponents especially if they have you covered - they know that you don't want to go home.

This is almost the MAIN reason I re-popped all in........ To Say "Look I have an absolute Monster, BACK OFF"...... becasue my re-shove of 75 000 more cripples him, and my intention is he would recognize this and fold......therefore I pick up approx 20,000 more + 7500 of the shortie......who by the way shoved A 7

[Marc-O 0]

Cappy, his range is too big. If he's a solid player, he's always raising AQ, AJ in this spot. I know I am. There is absolutely no reason to suppose Marc_O has a big hand. A small all-in and a call. He should put Marc_O's range at A9+, 66+ at the smallest. Therefore Marc_O's AK becomes a huge hand compared to the big stack's range. Pushing is by far the best play.

Hijacked.......... you pretty much summed up why I made the play right there........Cappy...... you make excelllllent points overall and to be honest, and not results biased..........If i could, i would go back and call the raise.......fold the flop......and probably won 159k ughhh still 2 days of work gone by and all ive thought about lol.Thanks for all the analysis guys....

[TravisG 0]

This is almost the MAIN reason I re-popped all in........ To Say "Look I have an absolute Monster, BACK OFF"...... becasue my re-shove of 75 000 more cripples him, and my intention is he would recognize this and fold......therefore I pick up approx 20,000 more + 7500 of the shortie......who by the way shoved A 7

it doesn't really cripple him if he looses. he still has a very playable stack in case his jacks don't hold up. also he showed you that he's willing to commit himself to the pot if you shove.

[simo_8ball 0]

Marc-O, of all the responses here, they are all saying either shove or fold.Flat calling is worse than either of them. It's not a middle ground option.

[Marc-O 0]

it doesn't really cripple him if he looses. he still has a very playable stack in case his jacks don't hold up. also he showed you that he's willing to commit himself to the pot if you shove.

The first point is true. I take that back.The 2nd point however Im not sure? He invested just over 10% of his stack with his raise..... pot commiting? tight

[gobears 0]

it doesn't really cripple him if he looses. he still has a very playable stack in case his jacks don't hold up. also he showed you that he's willing to commit himself to the pot if you shove.

He put in 30K of a 175K stack and it's another 65K to call a shove. Villain is not committed to this pot as if he folds preflop, he's still got a monster stack.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

Yup, if you are into that "maximum risk, minimum reward" approach to MTTs. The "Payoff" is the big stack willing to toss half his stack in the middle with an unmade hand worse than your unmade hand, after you've fired 50 big blinds into the middle. That's still a huge assumption. Since we have to give him credit for being able to laydown AQ/AJ after we raise, we're risking 90 to win 25-30. If you're cool with that, start firing 5-6x BB raises PF, too. You'll eiliminate most hands that aren't crushing you PF. It's fool proof.

Keep it up with your sarcastic rhetoric and meaningless buzz words like "unmade hand". It's all you got at this point. You assume a lot about my posts that I never stated. I'm not saying play AK like it's AA, I'm saying you are crushing his range in this hand with AK and it is a good situation for you. The mantra of "don't overplay AK" seems to have been beaten into your head but you don't seem to have any idea of when to play AK strongly. This is definitely one of the times to play AK strongly.

[onlyme386 0]

Maybe I did not clairfy that my first instinct was that he was making a move on me? and i felt his range was a small pair or weaker ace which is def a coin flip.... but since he was so solid, and I figured he had the same image on me, that he would see that my Re-Pop all in would mean that I am super strong....( AA, KK, QQ ) even though i was holding AK..... i wanted him to put me on AA, KK, QQ.... therefore fold and I would pick up a nice pot off of his raise preflop........as far as the comment "real poker is played after the flop".........i could argue this a number of points in this specific hand... but what i just stated in my opinion is "real poker" and quite a thought process

Let me run through the math on this for you, as I don't think you've looked at it fully. Main pot = 23.5kSide pot after you go all in = 22.5 k from him, 87.5k from you = 110k. If he calls, side pot = 175k and his remaining stack would be 80k.Total pot = 133.5kIf he folds at this point, his stack will be 155k.Going to look at it from his side of the hand, with JJ. At this point, we'll assign your range as AA, KK, QQ, AK and the first all in as any 2 cards. equity Hand 0: 31.121% { JcJd } This equates to 7.3k main potHand 1: 53.683% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }Hand 2: 15.196% { random } equity Hand 0: 36.190% { JcJd } This equates to 63.3kHand 1: 63.810% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }His total pot equity therefore is 70.6k, adding to his remaining stack of 80k after calling you gives him an expected stack of 150.6k, slightly less than his stack if he folds (a difference of less than 3bb). Overall a SLIGHTLY -ev call given your exact range, but if he puts you on anything less than that exact range it's a +ev call. For example throw AQ into your range and his side pot equity shoots to 42% (73.5k) and makes it a +ev call. Basically what I'm saying is that you don't have a lot of fold equity here.

Keep it up with your sarcastic rhetoric and meaningless buzz words like "unmade hand". It's all you got at this point. You assume a lot about my posts that I never stated. I'm not saying play AK like it's AA, I'm saying you are crushing his range in this hand with AK and it is a good situation for you. The mantra of "don't overplay AK" seems to have been beaten into your head but you don't seem to have any idea of when to play AK strongly. This is definitely one of the times to play AK strongly.

Don't be a prick. Cappy is right.

[throwemaway 0]

FWIW, I talked to Copernicus tonight via AIM about this hand..Here is the conversationCopernicus (11:26:42 PM): without seeing the responses, i think not raising the short stack shove with the big stack in the blinds is a big mistakeIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:47 PM): yes it def wasIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:50 PM): huge mistakeCopernicus 11:27:02 PM): it lets him see a cheap flop and you can get in huge trouble if he hitsIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:58 PM): everyone pretty much agreed on thatCopernicus (11:27:07 PM): and he needs a hand to playCopernicus (11:27:21 PM): so if he calls you know youre up against a pair or AKCopernicus (11:28:16 PM): with the call and a reraise he has a pretty wide rangeCopernicus (11:28:31 PM): could be a resteal or a real handCopernicus (11:28:46 PM): repopping him is riskyCopernicus (11:28:58 PM): because you only get called when youre behindIhaveNolife24182 (11:30:20 PM): yeah calling was a huge mistakeCopernicus (11:30:57 PM): so as played id call his reraise and fold if i dont hit the flop and he leads

[copernicus 0]

FWIW, I talked to Copernicus tonight via AIM about this hand..Here is the conversationCopernicus (11:26:42 PM): without seeing the responses, i think not raising the short stack shove with the big stack in the blinds is a big mistakeIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:47 PM): yes it def wasIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:50 PM): huge mistakeCopernicus 11:27:02 PM): it lets him see a cheap flop and you can get in huge trouble if he hitsIhaveNolife24182 (11:26:58 PM): everyone pretty much agreed on thatCopernicus (11:27:07 PM): and he needs a hand to playCopernicus (11:27:21 PM): so if he calls you know youre up against a pair or AKCopernicus (11:28:16 PM): with the call and a reraise he has a pretty wide rangeCopernicus (11:28:31 PM): could be a resteal or a real handCopernicus (11:28:46 PM): repopping him is riskyCopernicus (11:28:58 PM): because you only get called when youre behindIhaveNolife24182 (11:30:20 PM): yeah calling was a huge mistakeCopernicus (11:30:57 PM): so as played id call his reraise and fold if i dont hit the flop and he leads

Hey all. After reading the rest of the thread, I still think raise/fold to a reraise is the best line. He has to put you on a pretty tight range because he know youre willing to play against him, and if he reraises back into you he's either got balls of steel or a very big hand. Repopping his reraise in that situation may be right in a very big buy in tourney, because those guys are capable of reraising on a much wider range then Id expect here.As played the consensus seems to be push or fold to his raise. Hes got a huge range now that youve only called, and I cant see folding. Is pushing right? You fold out some hands that youd be racing against, but not many. I think hes got a very clear read on your hand at this point, and knows he's almost certainly racing from ahead against AK.what else flats with 2 or 3 player behind, but can consider pushing? So if you push youre getting called by TT+, AK at the loosest, and youre folding out maybe 88, 99, AQ. If you flat his raise you are committed if an A or K flop, but have a decent stack if you have to fold to a blank, but youve give up that FE.Chip wise its probably pretty close, i dont have time to stove all the possibilities right now. My gut reaction is that I dont want to repop because Im racing at best and could be getting crushed by AA, KK.Interesting hand.