Rocketwadster 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Took a quick break from Omaha 8 last night to sit in to a 6-handed $0.50/$1.00 NLHE table. Only one I could sit at had an average pot size of $32 according to the table list screen. Sat down and waited for my BB to come around. The average pot screen wasn't far off form what I had seen, as two opponents in particular were super aggressive every hand, with the other 3 occasionally seeing a flop then folding. Action went like this the first 3 hands I watched before playing:Villain #1 ($200+ stack)- would raise pre-flop every single hand, regardless of whether it was limped or raised to him, 3-4X the BB, unless it was already raised, in which case he went 3x the raise.Villain #2 ($100+ stack)- would call pre-flop, regardless of it being limped/raised to him.Villain #1 took down two pots uncontested, Villain #2 took down the other (all-in with J9 on a flop of J 10 8, against Villain #1 with 10 4 suited).From what I have seen, I probably wouldn't be here very long - double up or bust. Sat down with only $50.Didn't get a playable hand the first orbit. In that first orbit, Villain #2 busted twice against villain #1. Must be steaming I think (I would be).Second orbit, in my BB ($47.50 left in stack), got ace queen offsuit. Folded to villain #1, who raised to $4. Villain #2 calls in CO. I elect to just call.Flop is A 8 4 rainbow. I check (planning on check-raising). Villain #1 bets $9. Villain #2 raises to $20. Hero thinks for ten seconds, then pushes. Villain #1 insta-folds. Villain #2 insta-calls.Comments please. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 3-bet preflop. flop c/r is bad. i don't think AJ calls you. i 3-bet pre, fold to a 4-bet. if my preflop 3-bet is called, i bet the flop and play it from there. Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 3-bet preflop. flop c/r is bad. i don't think AJ calls you. i 3-bet pre, fold to a 4-bet. if my preflop 3-bet is called, i bet the flop and play it from there.You advise actions based more like Limit, whereas this is NL. As well, my stack isn't "deep", so a 3-bet would almost commit me. Link to post Share on other sites
blazerp0410 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 There is no doubt that guy is calling with AJ. My comment is, pray he didn't wake up with AK or get lucky with two pair or a set. Like you said you were looking to double, probably and this seems like as good a spot as any. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You advise actions based more like Limit, whereas this is NL.incorrect.As well, my stack isn't "deep"correct, i didn't notice that.a 3-bet would almost commit me.you'd rather wait until it's a bet and a raise to you on this SUPER dry flop?don't raise to an amount that commits you to the hand. this is just good NL. if a raise is close to committing you to a hand, it's better to make the bet a size which doesn't commit you, both bluffs and strong hands, so then if you're shoved upon you have the final decision. Link to post Share on other sites
blazerp0410 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 don't raise to an amount that commits you to the hand. this is just good NL. if a raise is close to committing you to a hand, it's better to make the bet a size which doesn't commit you, both bluffs and strong hands, so then if you're shoved upon you have the final decision.thing is he says i'm looking to bust or double. so why committ another 4-8 with a 3 bet pre-flop, knowing he can get it all in if he flops the A? If he doesn't he saves himself $$$. With deeper stacks I agree, but that's not what we have here. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 thing is he says i'm looking to bust or double. so why committ another 4-8 with a 3 bet pre-flop, knowing he can get it all in if he flops the A? If he doesn't he saves himself $$$. With deeper stacks I agree, but that's not what we have here.i don't know what to say. i gave my opinion on the most +EV play. i don't think it's close. i can show how it is +EV if need be, but then i'll ask you to show me how playing the hand as played is more +EV. Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 i don't know what to say. i gave my opinion on the most +EV play. i don't think it's close. i can show how it is +EV if need be, but then i'll ask you to show me how playing the hand as played is more +EV.I have very little experience in NLHE cash games compared to you, especially short handed, especially against such aggression. Nor do I have the bankroll to sit and reload and reload multiple times on this type of table (i'll reload on PLO or PLO8 tables anytime though).Like I said in the beginning, I was looking to scratch my itch for a bit (until I could play some PLO8 or PLO), either by doubling up or busting. I don't mind losing a buy-in, provided I got in there with what I would assume to be the best hand when the money went in.However, im not convinced that the line you suggested is +EV against these guys, especially villain 1. From the (limited) hands I have seen, they didn't need much to be raising and re-raising each other, so I could easily see at least one of them pushing me off of my premium (for a shorthanded table) hand here pre-flop taking that line. Also, with Villain 2 having taken some hits right before this, wouldn't you think that if he had a hand that could beat Ace Queen pre-flop, he would have raised villain 1? Ability to not tilt at these limits is rare/non-existant in my opinion. I would like to hear some others thoughts on this... Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Took a quick break from Omaha 8 last night to sit in to a 6-handed $0.50/$1.00 NLHE table. Only one I could sit at had an average pot size of $32 according to the table list screen. Sat down and waited for my BB to come around. The average pot screen wasn't far off form what I had seen, as two opponents in particular were super aggressive every hand, with the other 3 occasionally seeing a flop then folding. Action went like this the first 3 hands I watched before playing:Villain #1 ($200+ stack)- would raise pre-flop every single hand, regardless of whether it was limped or raised to him, 3-4X the BB, unless it was already raised, in which case he went 3x the raise.Villain #2 ($100+ stack)- would call pre-flop, regardless of it being limped/raised to him.Villain #1 took down two pots uncontested, Villain #2 took down the other (all-in with J9 on a flop of J 10 8, against Villain #1 with 10 4 suited).From what I have seen, I probably wouldn't be here very long - double up or bust. Sat down with only $50.Didn't get a playable hand the first orbit. In that first orbit, Villain #2 busted twice against villain #1. Must be steaming I think (I would be).Second orbit, in my BB ($47.50 left in stack), got ace queen offsuit. Folded to villain #1, who raised to $4. Villain #2 calls in CO. I elect to just call.Flop is A 8 4 rainbow. I check (planning on check-raising). Villain #1 bets $9. Villain #2 raises to $20. Hero thinks for ten seconds, then pushes. Villain #1 insta-folds. Villain #2 insta-calls.Comments please.Collusion? Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 play with a full stack and lead the flop. as played, standard Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Collusion?It's always possible, but I would think it highly unlikely here. With all that aggression, they were mainly butting heads with each other, fighting for the blinds and occassional pre-flop raise. Take the rake out of THAT, and there isn't much for them to be gaining IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
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