interesting hand for a nl newbie

[Kayyen 0]

Hi Folks,I've been playing 4/8 limit for 6 months now - but, my local casino just started spreading a 1/2 NL game $100 Max Buy-in (which is really a lot of fun). Anyhow, this hand came up last night I and was hoping for some feedback/thoughts.Playing 10-handed with me in Seat 9 in the BB with close to the full $100. I find 4 ,5 . PF we have 3 calls, button (seat 7) raises to 4. I figure my hand is good enough to call a min raise with to see the flop (mistake ???). 5 see the flop of 3,4,10 (with the 3 and 10 of ). SB and I check and Seat 2 (regular 4/8 player) bets 10, folds to Button who calls, SB folds and I call with flush draw and middle pair.Turn is a 7 of hearts - giving me the gutshot straight draw as well. I check... Seat 2 bets $35 (Pot size = $50ish), button folds. I decided to check-raise all in with what I figured to be a lot of outs (and possibly representing the completed straight draw). Seat 2 calls almost as fast as I can announce all in. (I get scared I'm up against a set she called so fast). I can post results if you'd like, but, I'd be interested in feedback of how I played this.Cheers

[custom36 5]

You played it poorly. Fold preflop, bet out on the flop, DO NOT go all in on a draw.Small suited connectors are fine cards to see a cheap flop with, but if someone bets into you, it's usually best to fold. The reason you bet out on the flop is because most will assume you hit top pair and they'll play it as if you did. If the third club hits, you're in pretty good shape. And it appears that if another low card hits (4, 5, 6), you'll also be in pretty good shape.The aggressor kept betting at it. He likely had a hand. Even if he had a pair of 4's, I can guarantee his kicker is higher. I would have either called or folded here, minus a read that he's really weak.But, seriously, fold preflop.

[tskillz187 0]

Hi Folks,I've been playing 4/8 limit for 6 months now - but, my local casino just started spreading a 1/2 NL game $100 Max Buy-in (which is really a lot of fun).  Anyhow, this hand came up last night I and was hoping for some feedback/thoughts.Playing 10-handed with me in Seat 9 in the BB with close to the full $100. I find 4 ,5 .  PF we have 3 calls, button (seat 7) raises to 4.  I figure my hand is good enough to call a min raise with to see the flop (mistake ???).  5 see the flop of 3,4,10 (with the 3 and 10 of   ).  SB and I check and Seat 2 (regular 4/8 player) bets 10, folds to Button who calls, SB folds and I call with flush draw and middle pair.Turn is a 7 of hearts - giving me the gutshot straight draw as well.  I check... Seat 2 bets $35 (Pot size = $50ish), button folds.  I decided to check-raise all in with what I figured to be a lot of outs (and possibly representing the completed straight draw).  Seat 2 calls almost as fast as I can announce all in.  (I get scared I'm up against a set she called so fast).  I can post results if you'd like, but, I'd be interested in feedback of how I played this.Cheers

Do not fold that preflop as previous poster thinks. you are getting 7:1 to make the call preflop (before any of the other 4 limpers even call), suited connectors make for great cards in NL call little raises with them and i would say 2% of your stack is quite minimal. There are so many different ways to play this flop, I would either bet 16ish out on the flop and try to take it down right there, or check raise the bettor from 10 to 30 and make a read on the situation after he has to invest another 20 bucks. Im not a fan of flat calling out of position and if you do take this route I think you can only check raise the turn if a 4, 5, or club hits the turn. I dont like the checkraise all in when drawing so slimly, best case scenario you are drawing to 17 outs which is a lot, buttttt there is 120 in the pot then you will be raising approx $51he is getting 2.2:1 to call you so you dont have much chance of him laying down a hand which means if hes a solid player, he is going to call you, and you will have to improve to win. With 17 outs (possibly less) and 47 possible cards you arent winning this hand enough to make this play profitable

[gobears 0]

He got raised into; so a fold is proper pre-flop as there are bunch of players yet to act behind him.

[tskillz187 0]

no way. they all showed weakness if they reraise after he has invested 2 more dollars and gotten valuable information with a limp reraise almost always indicating strength. How can he possibly fold to for 2 more dollars with 14 in the pot, it doesnt make sense even with the slim chance of a limp reraise

[allinbluff35 0]

You played it poorly. Fold preflop, bet out on the flop, DO NOT go all in on a draw.it's called semi-bluffing learn to use itSmall suited connectors are fine cards to see a cheap flop with, but if someone bets into you, it's usually best to fold. play opponents that have a clue and you'll see people raising with Q6s The reason you bet out on the flop is because most will assume you hit top pair and they'll play it as if you did. that's the most retarded thing you've ever said If the third club hits, you're in pretty good shape. And it appears that if another low card hits (4, 5, 6), you'll also be in pretty good shape.good job einsteinThe aggressor kept betting at it. He likely had a hand. Even if he had a pair of 4's, I can guarantee his kicker is higher. I would have either called or folded here, minus a read that he's really weak.or he's betting overcardsBut, seriously, fold preflop.get a clue on how play NLHE cash games and quit nut peddling

[custom36 5]

Alright genius, what's your advice?

[tskillz187 0]

dont go all in over the top of a bet with a semi bluff when the original better is getting better than 2:1 to call, this is a horrible time to semi-bluff as allinbluff was stating.

[allinbluff35 0]

dont go all in over the top of a bet with a semi bluff when the original better is getting better than 2:1 to call, this is a horrible time to semi-bluff as allinbluff was stating.

i never said to go allin on this hand, i was explaining the thick skulled wisconsin boy that he nut peddles to much in NLHE cash games

[tskillz187 0]

dont go all in over the top of a bet with a semi bluff when the original better is getting better than 2:1 to call, this is a horrible time to semi-bluff as allinbluff was stating.

i never said to go allin on this hand, i was explaining the thick skulled wisconsin boy that he nut peddles to much in NLHE cash games

hahha, very well then. Well to the OP dont go all in on this hand on the turn, play it as i said to in my first post

[custom36 5]

dont go all in over the top of a bet with a semi bluff when the original better is getting better than 2:1 to call, this is a horrible time to semi-bluff as allinbluff was stating.

i never said to go allin on this hand, i was explaining the thick skulled wisconsin boy that he nut peddles to much in NLHE cash games

This thick skulled wisconsin boy is still waiting for your "strategy" - that is, assuming you have one. I know it's hard for a guy from minnesota to figure out this quandry.

[Kayyen 0]

I appreciate the advice so far.... I guess I hadn't thought of the odds that my opponent was getting for the call. She had enough invested that I guess I would've needed a lot more to force her out.Would a flat call have been appropriate in this spot then?

[tskillz187 0]

blah. I guess a turn flat call is okay, but only bet that river if you improve, bluffing there is the exact same as the turn bluff, i just would bet out that flop or c/r the flop and proceed from there, makes the game a lot easier than trying to evauluate after every street what is the best thing to do.

[allinbluff35 0]

I think c/r the flop with a pot sized bet is the best line of action here

[Scott3705 0]

1. Definately don't fold this hand preflop. Small suited connectors are definately worth a flop when no one has shown aggression behind you.2. I don't really think you should bet out on the flop. A lot of times it will be interpretted as a feeler bet and the original raiser may re raise you, which you cannot call with this hand (Depending on the type of player he is). However, I think check raising the flop with a pot sized bet looks very strong and would push out anyone who was just trying to take a stab at the pot. (only reason I would be hesitant about this is because of the small bet on the flop in relationship to the pot. It's kind of asking for a call, or showing really extreme weakness while trying to seem strong. I would need to know what this player generally raised with and what kind of hand you had put her on.)Taken that you just call the flop, I think folding the turn is a good move. You had the odds to call the flop bet and probably got a little too fancy here. The pot is "virtually" unraised preflop since it only stood a min raise. So players can have any two cards here. You can't win every hand you play. The thing that I feel like your post is missing is your assessment of how strong the raiser was. Did you feel like she was weak? If some one has trips, its harder to pull them off of that hand representing a str8 than a player with TPTK even though both hands would be beat by a str8.

[Kayyen 0]

My read was that she didn't have all that much strength - I made the semi-bluff on the assumption that she wouldn't be able to call the c/r. The PF raise had clearly been a position raise - although a dumb one [i dislike the min. raise] (button and min. raise didn't scream strength to me). Seat 2 (who led out on the flop) was truly ABC player, which led me to believe she had caught top pair and was looking for information from the PF raiser.

[Jordan 1]

so the outcome...- Jordan

[Kayyen 0]

Sure... Seat 2 flipped over A,10 for TPTK, which.. put me in decent shape, but, all of my draws missed and she ended up taking down the pot.I thought it was somewhat humorous that she called so quickly, so, I said something like... wow - "quick call, eh?". Her response was "I had top pair, I had to call". Man, I was just hoping to catch a strong hand against her - sadly, never happened.

[princeof56k 0]

Small suited connectors are fine cards to see a cheap flop with, but if someone bets into you, it's usually best to fold.  

I'm going to have to disagree with you here because the raise is a min raise of only $2. Since he was in the BB it was only $2 to call. I feel this is cheap enough for him to call considering the value of the pot and the likelyhood other people will call the small raise. The raise was also made by the person on the button. Probably to build the pot rather than push people out.Now if the guy on the button was smart and wanted to push other people out, wouldnt he have raised about the size of the pot or close to it? In that case he should fold his 45 suited.Also note, by calling the small raise he does run the risk of someone re-raising by a large amount, and in that situation I would recommend him to fold as well.

[custom36 5]

Small suited connectors are fine cards to see a cheap flop with, but if someone bets into you, it's usually best to fold.  

I'm going to have to disagree with you here because the raise is a min raise of only $2. Since he was in the BB it was only $2 to call.

Unless I read something wrong, he raised it $6 - making it $6 for him to call. That's 4xBB. That's a time to fold.

[tskillz187 0]

you read something wrongthe OP says he raised to 4 total dollars and he is the BB and has a 2 dollar forced bet in, therefore its 2 dollars to him, EASY CALL

[custom36 5]

you read something wrongthe OP says he raised to 4 total dollars and he is the BB and has a 2 dollar forced bet in, therefore its 2 dollars to him, EASY CALL

Wow, I really screwed that one up. Yeah, easy call.

[akishore 0]

wow, maybe i'm way off, but i feel like there is a lot of HORRIBLE advice on this thread.1. pre-flop, the call is fine. this isn't phil hellmuth's top-10-poker... 5-4 suited is a great little hand to see a cheap flop with, and when it hits hard (as it did), it has a lot of power. do you think NLHE is about playing AA-QQ and maybe AK?? it's a minimum raise, are you really folding this? that was horrid advice. OP's call was fine.2. flop, he played it fine. when it came back to him, he was getting 4:1. ignoring implied odds (a key concept in NLHE), he's still getting perfect pot odds for just his flush draw and trip 4 draw (the two pair draw might not be clean). how do you not call here???3. turn, the check-raise semi-bluff was excellent. do you really expect him to fold with a flush draw + gutshot draw + mid pair draw?? a checkraise is great because he can afford to get called, but it might also make his opponent fold--we are fine with either play. the OP played the turn fine as well.to the OP, you played this perfectly. i'm guessing you might have run into A-7 of clubs or something (so your flush draw is dead and you're behind with middle pair) or maybe top two pair or maybe a set. don't worry if you lost the hand, you played it excellently.aseemedit: i just read the rest of the responses. i see that some advice was mistaken, and i see the results.

[Kayyen 0]

Hey Akishore,Thanks for posting yours. My own analysis had led me to analyze it much the way you did, however, hearing the preliminary feedback was making me rethink my whole approach to NL. One of the earlier posters did provide a good point about whether I still had enough fold equity when I pushed - and that's probably the lesson I'll take from this hand.Cheers

[posoo 0]

The best play, then, is to go all in on the turn, when the aggressor will not have such an easy pot-odds based call. If you're going to do a semibluff, do it when it has some hope of working