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DanielNegreanu

$100-$200 Limit Hold'em Hand

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I called the flop and bet the river because I had my opponent on exactly king high, or possibly worse.
If that is the case, shouldn't you check the river hoping to induce a bluff? He sounds passive and would most likely check behind with an ace or better king.
The biggest mistake these guys all make is that they pay off way too much
When the 8 hit the turn, though, I figured I had to bet in case he has king high or decides to fold ace high there
Which one is it? If he pays off too much, he isn't folding A high for sure, and will call many if any king highs. I think that your weak K high is best as a bluff catcher, based on what you've told us of the villain so far. A read on the villain in the original post is always nice :club:
...(it's actually the right play vs. me for sure)
Just because YOU know it's the right play, doesn't mean that that thought ever even crossed his mind ;)PS- Don't flame me guys, I know it's DN and all, but people regularly get ripped on much worse for posting hands without reads and such. When posting hands in strat it shouldn't matter who you are, there should be constructive criticism given.

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PS- Don't flame me guys, I know it's DN and all, but people regularly get ripped on much worse for posting hands without reads and such. When posting hands in strat it shouldn't matter who you are, there should be constructive criticism given.
Agree, imo.

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If you put him on exactly king high, why didn't you raise teh floop?What are you trying to make him think you have? I don't think you would play a Q/J this way at all, he would most likely expect you to 3-bet PF with 55+, i don't think he's gonna put you on a pair of two's either when you call PF and on the flop.Maybe calling with what he did is -EV long term, but i don't think you can blame him when i don't think he puts you on a strong hand here ever.

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He doesn't have him on K high on the flop.If he does, it's a mistake.His range is essentially 100% of whatever his button raising range is.I'm really unfamiliar with 4-handed dynamics, so I don't know what that is, 50%, 60%?Either way, he's c-betting 100% of his range on this flop.

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I would have folded that hand on the flop, dont see much hands im ahead. When I play that hand i raise on the flop and bet the turn and check/fold the river.My Villians range to call the river would be 22+ Ax.

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I need a read on villain before I am prepared to do anything, but I will say that most of the time this is a defensive check and you are getting valuetowned on the river so I would certainly need more than K high to call. No one with a brain tries to bluff the river after checking behind on the turn in a blind steal situation.

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I'm very late into this but I would most likely call with all A-highs or better (depending on my image I may fold some of my worst A-highs) and instamuck all K-highs. I actually think this hand is pretty straightforward.

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Man, this forum is so sweeet!My first ever post, I have always followed Daniel on this site as I think he is the most down to earth, coolest guy at the tables. He speaks his mind which is very rare. Daniel all the best for 2008.I finally managed to sign up.Woooo

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imo...Ax+ is instacalling the river bet. My question is was a c/r on the flop considered? That board almost never hits the villain and gets him to fold probably kx type hands.

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c/r bluffs are sooooooooo standard on those flops, no one folds to them. People try to bluff paired boards waaaaay too much, imo. The only way he folds is if he has a worse hand than our K3, fwiw.

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c/r bluffs are sooooooooo standard on those flops, no one folds to them. People try to bluff paired boards waaaaay too much, imo. The only way he folds is if he has a worse hand than our K3, fwiw.
I definately agree but we are generally ahead of his range (assuming like 45-50% of hands) and we definately dont want to go to showdown with the hand as is.

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Yeah, but we open ourselves up to be rebluffed.
Agreed, but it also works to randomize our play and can buy us some freecards later with king high/ ace high hands later b/c he has to at least respect our c/r option

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In villain's shoes, I can picture a crying call with KT since he can still tie "your" KT or beat your K9.I think that Daniel needs to bet this river to attempt to get A-high and K-high to fold. I doubt villain drops A-high very often, but if villain has K9-K3, we should hopefully be able to drive him off. Didn't work in this case, but given pot odds, it was probably worth a shot.

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I'm not real crazy about the river bet. If I'm villain I expect hero to fire 90% of the time on the river when I raise preflop, c-bet the flop and check behind on the turn. So I'm calling with a pretty wide range, about the only hands I'm folding are the ones Daniel can already beat.

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I really enjoy this forum, glad I found it... The breakdowns and analysis is great to read.My only additional thought on this hand is that history has to come into play. DN has played this guy before - as he says he usually tears him apart. Has this guy felt he had been bluffed off some recent hands, is he on tilt, had he seen that betting pattern. If he calls in that spot all the time then he is going to lose a lot of money - but feel really good about himself when he does catch DN. Like bad beats you generally remember catching a bluff longer then calling with a losing hand. So even though I play in lower limits, I would not be upset with this outcome at all. It just has to increase my odds of getting paid off in the future. And once you get paid off a couple times, the stab at the river might work again.

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i think villian has exactly acehigh and a mediocere kicker. he checked the turn cause he didnt want to be checkraised and to induce a bluff on the river

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BBFIDTS? :club:
Technically not a bad beat because:1. DN didn't lose the pot2. DN never had the best hand at any point here.But yeah, K6 should fold here. I think the call with A high is marginal, but ok.

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K6? hm he is beating close to nothing what pealed that Flop. I think K6 should fold the river cause daniels play looks really like a witheled checkraise on the turn and that the pot consists just 4.25 BigBets.

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(First post for me.......woohoo........probably not exciting for anyone else, but still.) I'm replying w/o reading other responses, yet.I'm not sure there is a hand I call with. If I had a Jack, I probably would have kept betting, at the turn. I wouldn't worry about kicker problems until I was 3-bet. If I had AA or KK, I would have bet the turn (I'd have a decision it make if I were raised there). If I had pocket queens, I would have raised the river. If I had something like KQ or QT, I probably would have bet the turn with that, too. There is absolutely no way I could call with Ace-high, unless I put DN on precisely K-high. Which would be pretty tough to do, considering that it was played like DN had a jack.Generally, I would only call when I thought I was fifty-fifty to win the pot. But, there are no such hands here. Either I'm winning with a hand I'm comfortable enought to bet/raise with, or I've completely missed the board, which warrants a fold.So, considering how it was played up to the river, I don't think there is any hand worth calling with.EDIT: Ok, so I've read thru the posts. And, I'm standing with what I previously said, there aren't any hands to call with. Frankly, I'm amazed with how many cats are willing to call with Ace-high. Maybe the knowing Daniel had K3 makes it easier. If I don't know his hand, I can't call. Ace-high works in other places, not this one. Finding out that I (the villian) had K6, makes the fold automatic. For the sake of the actual villian, I hope he learns to fold there, too. Because DN noted that he tears the guy up, the villian should stop calling speculative hands at the river. Doesn't he notice that he's losing money?? He was lucky to get the chop.

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i've never played 100/200, but ace high is an INSTACALL online for the villain, and king high should be an instamuck in most spots. from what i've seen of high stakes live, though (that is, not on the tv), daniel's thinking is more spot-on.

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