Kk - Flops Overpair Faces Stiff Resistance

[psujohn 0]

Villain has been tight aggressive 20/17/3 or so. Had most of his big stack when I arrived at the table so hadn't seen him in any big pots to this point.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($82.80)SB ($104.40)Preflop: Hero is Button with K , K . 3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold.Flop: ($4.50) 3 , 6 , 2 (2 players)SB bets $3.5, Hero raises to $9.5, SB raises to $26, Hero calls $16.50.Turn: ($56.50) J (2 players)SB bets $76.4 (All-In), Hero ???Is the flop play OK? When villain leads flop his range is pretty wide in my mind - 77+, AKdd, 66, 33, 22. When he re-raises I fear the set and flat call. I really doubt villain 3-bets a flush draw here. No idea if he 3-bets JJ or QQ here. On the turn I'm getting 2:1 on my call.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

I don't see anyway realistically that you have the best hand in this spot.Most likely a set or 5-4, IMO.I fold for sure.

[Bubba83 0]

I don't think you should call the 3-bet on the flop if you're going to fold to a likely shove on the turn, which is coming like 95% of the time.If for some reason you think you're ahead on the flop, shove the flop, don't call the 3-bet. But I don't think you're ahead so I fold to the 3-bet.

[rainbowbrite 0]

fold on the flop to his 3 betI agree with bubba on the shove comingand i think 45 suited is def in his range i fold on his 3 bet here

[Craigdog 0]

yeah this looks like a set. Best case scenario is a flush draw, I fold here on the 3 bet.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Villain has been tight aggressive 20/17/3 SB bets $76.4 (All-In), Hero ???Is the flop play OK? When villain leads flop his range is pretty wide in my mind - 77+, AKdd, 66, 33, 22. When he re-raises I fear the set and flat call. I really doubt villain 3-bets a flush draw here. No idea if he 3-bets JJ or QQ here. On the turn I'm getting 2:1 on my call.

Look at the preflop action. This is AA v KK or JJJ v KKCould be QQ 30% of the time.Call if you're not deep But you're pretty likely to be beat.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Fold or shove the flop. When he takes a bet/3bet line here, he's got a big draw or a hand better than yours like 95% of the time. I cannot remember ever seeing a player play JJ or QQ like this.Fold to the flop reraise without a read.

[psujohn 0]

Look at the preflop action. This is AA v KK or JJJ v KKCould be QQ 30% of the time.Call if you're not deep But you're pretty likely to be beat.

This villain NEVER shows up with AA here. Probably should have put that in the OP. He's straightforward TAG. He'd 3-bet AA 100% of the time. Effective stacks are 160 BB which is pretty deep in my mind.I over thought things a bit on the flop. My thought was that he wouldn't 3-bet a set here because my hand is pretty transparent and he only needs to fade 2 outs. I call hoping that he either has a monster draw or a hand like QQ or JJ and will check a blank turn to me. This is a bad plan btw. I do this far too often "I can call and hope that villain co-operates with me on the hand". On the turn villain doesn't co-operate and one of the wishful thinking hands just got there. I stack off here with nothing but an overpair like a complete tard.I post this hand just so that I can confirm what I already know - fold to the flop 3-bet. I know it at the time but can't gat away from my KK like some kind of newb. Hopefully this public embarrassment will help me remember to never play the hand this way again.

[sactownjoey 0]

This villain NEVER shows up with AA here. Probably should have put that in the OP. He's straightforward TAG. He'd 3-bet AA 100% of the time. Effective stacks are 160 BB which is pretty deep in my mind.I over thought things a bit on the flop. My thought was that he wouldn't 3-bet a set here because my hand is pretty transparent and he only needs to fade 2 outs. I call hoping that he either has a monster draw or a hand like QQ or JJ and will check a blank turn to me. This is a bad plan btw. I do this far too often "I can call and hope that villain co-operates with me on the hand". On the turn villain doesn't co-operate and one of the wishful thinking hands just got there. I stack off here with nothing but an overpair like a complete tard.I post this hand just so that I can confirm what I already know - fold to the flop 3-bet. I know it at the time but can't gat away from my KK like some kind of newb. Hopefully this public embarrassment will help me remember to never play the hand this way again.

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...I KNOW he has 99, I just KNOW it. Been there, done that.

[mtdesmoines 3]

This villain NEVER shows up with AA here. Probably should have put that in the OP. He's straightforward TAG. He'd 3-bet AA 100% of the time. Effective stacks are 160 BB which is pretty deep in my mind.I over thought things a bit on the flop. My thought was that he wouldn't 3-bet a set here because my hand is pretty transparent and he only needs to fade 2 outs. I call hoping that he either has a monster draw or a hand like QQ or JJ and will check a blank turn to me. This is a bad plan btw. I do this far too often "I can call and hope that villain co-operates with me on the hand". On the turn villain doesn't co-operate and one of the wishful thinking hands just got there. I stack off here with nothing but an overpair like a complete tard.I post this hand just so that I can confirm what I already know - fold to the flop 3-bet. I know it at the time but can't gat away from my KK like some kind of newb. Hopefully this public embarrassment will help me remember to never play the hand this way again.

OK, then the key question is, "What does he smooth call the raise with PF and go nuts with on the flop?" Flop: ($4.50) 3 , 6 , 2 (2 players)SB bets $3.5, Hero raises to $9.5, SB raises to $26This is the part that says AA to me.Do you mean to say that villain hit a set of jacks?

[mtdesmoines 3]

I over thought things a bit on the flop. My thought was that he wouldn't 3-bet a set here because my hand is pretty transparent and he only needs to fade 2 outs.

Anyway, if he has a monster, he wants to start the flow of chips into the pot. You're not setting the agenda here, the villain is. Whenever that happens, I start to wonder why.

[Syntonic 0]

Villain almost never has AA in this spot.This is almost always 66, in my opinion. You flat call his three bet on the flop, why would he just spew all in with QQ? Or better yet, why would he three bet QQ?You have to think about what he's thinking. He knows you're strong. He knows you have an overpair. A tight aggressive player has a set like 85% of the time here, and 4-5 sooted 10%.Fold.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Fold or shove the flop. When he takes a bet/3bet line here, he's got a big draw or a hand better than yours like 95% of the time. I cannot remember ever seeing a player play JJ or QQ like this.Fold to the flop reraise without a read.

I'm not saying this is an easy call as I'm actually someone who will fold AA on a random flop like that, however to say that you can't remember seeing a player play jj or qq like that obviously means you don't play 200 NL or lower because I see this play with kk all the way down through 66 or a random 4 more than one would ever believe, thats why at the low limits its hard to fold over pairs because you have to remember the retard factor, something that can't be ignored. You wouldn't think someone would shove all in for 100 bb's over a 3X raise with 89 offsuit, but I've seen it many times, and in the example given by the OP this is qq-10s quite often.

[Acid_Knight 2]

that obviously means you don't play 200 NL or lower

I've played about 25,000 hands of 1/2 6 max and 13,000 hands of .5/1 6 max on FT and PS in the last 3 months.

[mikeysong 0]

I've played about 25,000 hands of 1/2 6 max and 13,000 hands of .5/1 6 max on FT and PS in the last 3 months.

and despite what his blog says, he's damn good at the game.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I've played about 25,000 hands of 1/2 6 max and 13,000 hands of .5/1 6 max on FT and PS in the last 3 months.

If thats the case go through your PT stats when you have AA-QQ and if you don't have many hands where the villian has absolutely nothing or something like a pair of 9's then I'm just will have to quit poker because I must simply be playing with chimps or something because the people I play with are retarded.

[Zach6668 513]

If thats the case go through your PT stats when you have AA-QQ and if you don't have many hands where the villian has absolutely nothing or something like a pair of 9's then I'm just will have to quit poker because I must simply be playing with chimps or something because the people I play with are retarded.

I don't think the point has anything to do with the villains having nothing, I'm certain Acid was saying that the bet/3-bet line is never air.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I've played about 25,000 hands of 1/2 6 max and 13,000 hands of .5/1 6 max on FT and PS in the last 3 months.

That hand you talked about in your blow where the guy made the nuts on the river with j9....if you think its retarded that he had j9 and called the turn at 2-5 for 500 bucks, why is hard to believe someone douchebag couldn't have qq at 100 NL?I'm not trying to be an ass or something as I'd be pissed that he had j9 too, but you and I play the same limits on the same sites and I can't begin to describe how bad most players are at 6max lowish limits.I read that hand you posted a couple blogs ago about the PLO guy who's the biggest luckbox ever, he was in for 42 pre and called all in for 150 with a gutshot on a rainbow board with no redraw, and yet there's no way someone could have qq in the original discussion??Its all retard factor my friend, something which apparently you and I have trouble beating.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I don't think the point has anything to do with the villains having nothing, I'm certain Acid was saying that the bet/3-bet line is never air.

He said he cant' remember ever seeing someone play qq or jj like this when it happens dozens of times everyday at this limit.

[Zach6668 513]

He said he cant' remember ever seeing someone play qq or jj like this when it happens dozens of times everyday at this limit.

Right, he's saying he never sees QQ/JJ play the bet/3-bet line.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Right, he's saying he never sees QQ/JJ play the bet/3-bet line.

Yeah, what I said was really straightforward.Taking a line like that on a board like that is essentially turning into a bluff. I see people lead with QQ or JJ there. I see them CRAI or just c/r with it, but I have never seen someone take a hand with so much showdown value and overplay it by b/3betting in a situation like this.My point is that this is almost always a monster draw or a set (or of you're playing vs me, I could have just total air here ). I said that I have never seen a hand worse than ours doing it for value.

[mtdesmoines 3]

but I have never seen someone take a hand with so much showdown value and overplay it by b/3betting in a situation like this

overplaying can be so sexy

[jack24bauer24 0]

Right, he's saying he never sees QQ/JJ play the bet/3-bet line.

Well I see it daily, and again I'm not saying that I'm always or often going to call here as this does scream of a set, but it happens soooooooo many times against the retards out there that think "I have qq on a 6 high flop, i have the nuts, lets bet this shit out of this for 1223323 raises all in".

[jack24bauer24 0]

Just some retard example for you, I know this isn't the situation that we are talking about, but a great example of why you have to factor in the R factor.POKERSTARS GAME #13767187141: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/12/10 - 05:17:11 (ET)Table 'Hercules II' 6-max Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: psycha ($109.05 in chips) Seat 2: shnizzel ($121.85 in chips) Seat 3: Cirols ($170.40 in chips) Seat 4: ItsMarioJr ($156.05 in chips) Seat 5: likestowhine ($94.65 in chips) Seat 6: LisetheMach ($113.25 in chips) ItsMarioJr: posts small blind $0.50likestowhine: posts big blind $1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to likestowhine [Kh Ks]LisetheMach: folds psycha: folds shnizzel: folds Cirols: calls $1ItsMarioJr: folds likestowhine: raises $3 to $4Cirols: raises $3 to $7likestowhine: raises $14 to $21Cirols: calls $14*** FLOP *** [6c 2s 2h]likestowhine: bets $22Cirols: calls $22*** TURN *** [6c 2s 2h] [Ts]likestowhine: bets $51.65 and is all-inCirols: calls $51.65*** RIVER *** [6c 2s 2h Ts] [Qh]*** SHOW DOWN ***likestowhine: shows [Kh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)Cirols: mucks hand likestowhine collected $186.80 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $189.80 | Rake $3 Board [6c 2s 2h Ts Qh]Seat 1: psycha folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: shnizzel folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Cirols (button) mucked [7d Ad]Seat 4: ItsMarioJr (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: likestowhine (big blind) showed [Kh Ks] and won ($186.80) with two pair, Kings and DeucesSeat 6: LisetheMach folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Acid_Knight 2]

That example you posted is just someone doing something stupid that has literally no relation to how this hand plays out.I'd be really interested to see some HHs from you where someone calls a PFR and then b/3bs with an overpair on a board like this one. Since you say it happens daily, you should have plenty of examples.