66 - Curious How I Should Best Proceed

[Bubba83 0]

I was recently in Vegas and played a decent amount of 1/2 NL at The Mirage, pretty awesome action there too... As a lot of you know, it's max buy-in $200.Stack Sizes:Hero has $278MP2 has $325ishButton has $400ishPreflop: Hero is dealt 6 6 in Hi-Jack, MP2 raises to $15, Hero calls, CO folds, Button re-raises to $30 total, MP2 calls, Hero calls.Flop: K T 6 ($94 in pot)MP2 checks, Hero loves this flop - but would like to know how you all would proceed...Reads: MP2 is loose aggressive and I'm trying to stack him. Button puts a bit too much money in preflop with good but not great hands, but is otherwise TAG. Button also has c-bet everytime he has had the lead preflop regardless of how many players see the flop, or flop texture. I've been playing fairly TAG and have been at the table for about 1.5 hours.Comments on preflop will also be considered.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I was recently in Vegas and played a decent amount of 1/2 NL at The Mirage, pretty awesome action there too... As a lot of you know, it's max buy-in $200.Stack Sizes:Hero has $278MP2 has $325ishButton has $400ishPreflop: Hero is dealt 6c 6s in Hi-Jack, LAG player on my right open-raises from MP2 to $15, Hero calls, CO folds, Button re-raises to $30 total, MP2 calls, Hero calls.Flop: K T 6 ($94 in pot)MP2 checks, Hero loves this flop - but would like to know how you all would proceed...

What did the LAG do?I bet around $80 if LAG checks with the intent to call anything on this flop.

[Bubba83 0]

Lag did check.

[mtdesmoines 3]

The LAG is MP2, he checked the flop. I don't have $808, but I'll assume you mean $80?

OK. Yah, I bet $80.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I lead this flop a lot. The button should have AA/AK/KK a lot with that raise and will raise you regardless. If he's got QQ or JJ, you put him in a tough spot. You really don't wanna let a free card roll off there though.I'd bet like $60 or $75.Preflop is also very marginal. You should be deeper to call that 1st raise if you're set mining. If you're gonna win the hand with position against the lag, I guess it's more acceptable.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Check/raise the flop.I often lead into the raiser with a set, but a check/raise gets us all-in since the pot is already large.

[Sheiky 0]

Bet/3bet and hope they both hit a king or the min-raiser has aces.I suppose going for the c/r might get more money from the guy on the right though, mmmm.I think you're deep enough to call PF aswell.

[NoBBiR 0]

I was recently in Vegas and played a decent amount of 1/2 NL at The Mirage, pretty awesome action there too... As a lot of you know, it's max buy-in $200.Stack Sizes:Hero has $278MP2 has $325ishButton has $400ishPreflop: Hero is dealt 6c 6s in Hi-Jack, MP2 raises to $15, Hero calls, CO folds, Button re-raises to $30 total, MP2 calls, Hero calls.Flop: K T 6 ($94 in pot)MP2 checks, Hero loves this flop - but would like to know how you all would proceed...Reads: MP2 is loose aggressive and I'm trying to stack him. Button puts a bit too much money in preflop with good but not great hands, but is otherwise TAG. Button also has c-bet everytime he has had the lead preflop regardless of how many players see the flop, or flop texture. I've been playing fairly TAG and have been at the table for about 1.5 hours.Comments on preflop will also be considered.

Whenever I flop a set in these situations I ALWAYS donk into the PFR if I'm oop. Your main objective on this flop now that you flopped a set is you need to make a bet that will get raised by the PFR if they have any of the hands you hope they have (basically AK or AA). I would bet $55-60. At this point you need to PRAY that the TAG on the button raises you behind with Aces or AK. Donking into PFR when you flop sets is how you get them committed when they feel they need to reraise the flop. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.Then again, whenever I flop a set in these situations, I always wind up running into set over set. Good luck

[Bubba83 0]

This particular min-raisers range isn't as narrow as AA KK QQ JJ AK necessarily with the read I have on him from the other small re-raises he has made preflop, and generally large open raises he has made with good but not great hands. It seems like there is some discussion of whether it is better to donk bet or check/raise here, which is what I was hoping for.The benefit of donk-betting would be to ensure it doesn't get checked through. I don't think this opponent would check after leading preflop very often at all, but I haven't had that much time playing with him either. The donk-bet can also make him commited if he raises it with AK, KQ, or AA, which is nice. There are two downsides I can see. If he just calls, then MP2 gets great odds if he's drawing to a flush or even has something like QJ. That's not too big of a problem though because he's only seeing one card before I jam the turn if that happens. The other downside to donk-betting is that if Button raises, it's going to for sure knock out MP2 if he has a hand like QQ, JJ, AT, KQ, KJ, or perhaps he may even fold AK here with a bet and a raise in front.The benefits of check raising can help create a larger pot if the Button bets, and MP2 calls before we jam. Ahhh I have to go in the middle of this post but please continue the discussion!

[mtdesmoines 3]

Then again, whenever I flop a set in these situations, I always wind up running into set over set. Good luck

my most recent set: Me: 4c 4hVillain: As6sFlop: Ac 8h 4sWe get it in (???)turn: Ts river 5sYay.

[Acid_Knight 2]

my most recent set: Me: 4c 4hVillain: As6sFlop: Ac 8h 4sWe get it in (???)turn: Ts river 5sYay.

You play bad

[Dratj 0]

Bet pot. Protect against the flush draw. You are hoping to get raised, in which case you'd have to shove.

[NoBBiR 0]

Bet pot. Protect against the flush draw. You are hoping to get raised, in which case you'd have to shove.

I think betting pot is a little too big of a bet if you're hoping to get raised. You can also protect against draws by just pricing them out, instead of blowing them off of their hands.

[krup24 0]

I bet this flop pretty much everytime here. There is always a chance that button will check behind and that is one of the things we don't want to happen. I bet around $65-70.

[d0c 0]

There's two bets remaining compared to your stack. CRAI or bet/3bet (or after flat call turn shove).Based on reads (MP2 LAG and button always c-bets) i would choose CRAI

[Bubba83 0]

For those of you that want to lead the flop for about 2/3 - 3/4 the pot here, consider the following theoretical situation:Preflop: Hero is dealt 6 6 in Hi-Jack, MP2 raises to $15, Hero calls, CO folds, Button re-raises to $30 total, MP2 calls, Hero calls.Flop: K T 6 ($94 in pot)MP2 checks, Hero bets $65, Button calls, MP2 folds.Turn: 3 ($224 in pot)Hero...We have $183 left in our stack, and button has us covered. What hand ranges do we put Button on? What is our line?

[Moneyball16 0]

Im not really scared of button having a flush on the turn. I would have expected him to put more action in on the flop with 2 broadway diamonds since he would either have top pair and a fd or a straight draw and a fd. So I would just push and hope he wasnt slowplaying KK, TT, AK diamonds on the flop.

[Bubba83 0]

What hands could he have though when he calls on the flop? What would we be called by that we can beat on the turn?

[Zach6668 513]

AA, AK, to name a couple.

[Bubba83 0]

I'd also be willing to include Kc Qc, Kh Qh that we can beat, but I don't know if he's calling. He may not even call with AK, AA unless he has Ad or Kd in the case of AK.Let's list some hands he can have that beat me: Ad Kd, Ad Qd, Ad Jd, KK, TT and maybe Ad Td (like i said he likes his hands preflop a little too much)

[Zach6668 513]

I'd also be willing to include Kc Qc, Kh Qh that we can beat, but I don't know if he's calling. He may not even call with AK, AA unless he has Ad or Kd in the case of AK.Let's list some hands he can have that beat me: Ad Kd, Ad Qd, Ad Jd, KK, TT and maybe Ad Td (like i said he likes his hands preflop a little too much)

Isn't this 1/2 live NL?

[Bubba83 0]

Yes, but as I said the guy played TAG postflop. I am putting a lot of pressure on him if I shovel the turn, and there's 3 diamonds on the board. Is it that unreasonable to believe he'd fold the turn with KQ, AK, and maybe AA?

[Zach6668 513]

Yes, but as I said the guy played TAG postflop. I am putting a lot of pressure on him if I shovel the turn, and there's 3 diamonds on the board. Is it that unreasonable to believe he'd fold the turn with KQ, AK, and maybe AA?

No, that's fine.What do you suggest as an alternative line?I mean, we're never folding our set, right?If we check, we risk him taking a free one off with a lone diamond. If we bet, we get to protect our hand from those one card draws, and give him a chance to make a mistake.Do you have any other ideas?(I dunno how this is coming off, but it's not meant to be hostile in any way. I've been in a pissy mood all day tho, so it may come through in my posting.)

[Royal_Tour 0]

What did the LAG do?I bet around $80 if LAG checks with the intent to call anything on this flop.

I bet this flop pretty much everytime here. There is always a chance that button will check behind and that is one of the things we don't want to happen. I bet around $65-70.

God.. bet 80?? even 70 is pushing it.bring this down to 60. sometimes even 50. easily. a little over half is about right.

[Bubba83 0]

No, that's fine.What do you suggest as an alternative line?I mean, we're never folding our set, right?If we check, we risk him taking a free one off with a lone diamond. If we bet, we get to protect our hand from those one card draws, and give him a chance to make a mistake.Do you have any other ideas?(I dunno how this is coming off, but it's not meant to be hostile in any way. I've been in a pissy mood all day tho, so it may come through in my posting.)

You're not coming off hostile to me, I am always afraid I come off hostile when I get so involved in these strat hands as well, but I personally feed on the arguments and they make me think in many different ways... Unless someone makes something personal it's all just strategy as far as I am concerned.I'm not really suggesting an alternate way to play the turn, I am just saying it can be problematic if we donk-bet the flop and then a situation like that happens where we pretty much have to shove into a possible flush which kinda sucks.I guess it's the main reason why I like a check/raise all in line on the flop as opposed to donk-bet. My read was he wouldn't check behind even if his hand completely missed, so I checked in the actual play of this hand. Button bet $30 (tiny I know) MP2 calls (awesome, our check trapped him in there!) and I raised all-in. Button thinks for a minute and folds, MP2 thinks for like 2 minutes and finally says he can't lay it down and calls with A K . Turn 10 , River 4 :diamond:I rake the large pot, button later claims he folded A Q :diamond:Obviously this situation turned out favorably for me, which is why I posted the hand because I wanted to see if I was off-base with my check-raise all in line. Here's my case for the check/raise all in line:Let's say we have a read on our villain that he will only check behind here like 20% of the time, which quite honestly I think is high for this particular villain. If there is a flush draw out, our villain with the flush draw can't hit the K so he has 8 outs on the turn out of a possible 47 cards giving him a 17% chance to pull ahead. That's a parlay of two things that need to happen for us to be behind after the turn, and that parlay will only happen 3.4% of the time. In addition to that, we don't even know if anyone has the flush draw in the first place!Suppose the button surprises me by checking the flop. If a non diamond turn comes, our line is going to be pretty obvious from here on out, so let's suppose the 17% chance diamond that isn't the K comes. We've kept the pot a lot smaller now than if we had donked the flop, and can quite possibly A ) Get away from the hand or B ) Limit our losses if a guy hit a flush and bets small or C ) Catch an opponent bluffing on perceived weakness.Have I made a strong enough case for a check/raise all-in line on the flop? If you don't think so, please tell me why and make sure to counter the points I have just presented.