Collusion Or Total Paranoia?

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Situation: Two guys wearing Poker After Dark hats and shirts (they said they both worked on set) were sitting next to each other. In this hand in question, one was in the SB (stack size $122), one was in the BB ($~400). A few times prior they had gone bet, min-raise and one of those 2 had won the pot each time.Anyways, I had AT on the button ($280 in my stack), it folded to me, so I put out a typical table raise to $10. Both SB and BB called. Flop T-4-2 it goes check check, so i fire $30. Both call. THEN it gets interesting. Turn is a 6 (T-4-2-6 rainbow). SB checks, BB looks at me, then at the SBs stack and fires $40 now, I debate for awhile and just call. Then the SB raises 42 all in for 82 total, obviously now the BB goes all in over top. I now have no choice but to fold. SB flips over JT, BB flips over.....5-8These two were both apparently competent players. They had made nice calls, bets etcetc to prove (to me) that they were NOT bad players. Heres some added details, before the river came out, the SB flipped his JT and the BB says "nice hand im drawing...double gutshot"After the hand I was quite upset, I had never really experienced this before and was having a bad week already and was not about to let this go, so i asked if they knew each other, and why the BB would make a pointless raise there, and he says "oh i misread my cards, thought i had something else" even though he clearly said he was drawing before the river.Any other questions I asked, they just ignored. 5 minutes later the MGM power went out (it is funny to see the chaos that ensues when a whole casino goes PITCH BLACK) and when it came back on I just picked my chips up and left.So the question I ask, is -whether it looks like collusion to you or not? -Would it be considered proper etiquette to call the floor in that situation? or just shut up and leave? (the two players to my right both agreed it looked veryvery suspicious.)thanks for the input

[king_tanner 84]

Wow that is a tough situation, its hard to prove anything though. I would ask the dealer what he thought about it, then call the floor based on what the dealer says. If your reallllly upset about it just call the floor without anyones input, but I dont think it will resolve anything.I would just ask for a table change or leave if dealer or floor didnt address it.

[Ko8e34 0]

Suspicious, yes. Able to prove collusion no. Two legitimate hands (althought i call bull**** on the guy that said he didnt know what he had when he stated he was drawing before the river. They were either competitive buddies or doing whatever it took to get your strong hand out of the pot, he bet just the right amount so that he could reshove over the top all in instead of betting, say 45 which the BB would have shoved and u both called. Therefore it does look like a set up. Good move leaving that table because even if it wasn't collusion, it is -EV to play at the same table ESPECIALLY in the same pot as 2 obvious friends.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

i should also add the fact that he called $30 on a flop of 10-4-2 with 5-8

[CodyDean 0]

you were duped for sure

[david_keena 0]

Situation: Two guys wearing Poker After Dark hats and shirts (they said they both worked on set) were sitting next to each other. In this hand in question, one was in the SB (stack size $122), one was in the BB ($~400). A few times prior they had gone bet, min-raise and one of those 2 had won the pot each time.Anyways, I had AT on the button ($280 in my stack), it folded to me, so I put out a typical table raise to $10. Both SB and BB called. Flop T-4-2 it goes check check, so i fire $30. Both call. THEN it gets interesting. Turn is a 6 (T-4-2-6 rainbow). SB checks, BB looks at me, then at the SBs stack and fires $40 now, I debate for awhile and just call. Then the SB raises 42 all in for 82 total, obviously now the BB goes all in over top. I now have no choice but to fold. SB flips over JT, BB flips over.....5-8These two were both apparently competent players. They had made nice calls, bets etcetc to prove (to me) that they were NOT bad players. Heres some added details, before the river came out, the SB flipped his JT and the BB says "nice hand im drawing...double gutshot"After the hand I was quite upset, I had never really experienced this before and was having a bad week already and was not about to let this go, so i asked if they knew each other, and why the BB would make a pointless raise there, and he says "oh i misread my cards, thought i had something else" even though he clearly said he was drawing before the river.Any other questions I asked, they just ignored. 5 minutes later the MGM power went out (it is funny to see the chaos that ensues when a whole casino goes PITCH BLACK) and when it came back on I just picked my chips up and left.So the question I ask, is -whether it looks like collusion to you or not? -Would it be considered proper etiquette to call the floor in that situation? or just shut up and leave? (the two players to my right both agreed it looked veryvery suspicious.)thanks for the input

ya something deffinetly seems fishy, like u said he called $30 on floop with 8-5. preflop i see both calling. i would ask the dealer, but like others said there isn't much u can prove about themplaying as a team. the whole thing about them min raising is dirty too, no one min rasies unless they r building the pot for teh freind. i woud prob just change tables or leave.

[BigLebowski 0]

If I knew I was leaving I absolutely would have made a scene. Who even cares about the money involved? Sure, you can't prove anything without a doubt, but you sure can make it uncomfortable for them to continue what they were doing at that particular table.

[GWCGWC 83]

First of all, you shouldn't be playing in a 1/2NL game where the standard pf raise is $10. There's too many games in that room alone where the standard pf raise is 20. Table change sir.Second, call the floor immediately. Don't let the dealer muck any cards, just tell the dealer to STOP and call the floor. Recreate the action for the floor and don't let ANYONE interrupt. The floor will simply make a mental note and you will basically be telling both players that you think they are scumbag cheaters. Table change sir. Third, easy call. j/k

[Willing 2 Die 0]

collusion for sure.

[Holmes Monaco 0]

total paranoia

[pele_br 0]

Seems fishy... Can't prove for certain that it's collusion, but it is definitely not paranoia.

[arerad 0]

I've heard rumors that sometimes when gambling with cash is involved, there are people that will cheat. In some locations you beat the hell out of them, at the MGM you need to get a table change.

[Mercury69 3]

What a pair of fags. I would have asked them who's turn is it to get teabagged, thrown a low denom chip at the other and found another table. Can't prove the collusion, but it's clearly an angle shot at your expense. What a pair of scumbags, though.

[iveyfan30 0]

First of all, you shouldn't be playing in a 1/2NL game where the standard pf raise is $10. There's too many games in that room alone where the standard pf raise is 20. Table change sir.Second, call the floor immediately. Don't let the dealer muck any cards, just tell the dealer to STOP and call the floor. Recreate the action for the floor and don't let ANYONE interrupt. The floor will simply make a mental note and you will basically be telling both players that you think they are scumbag cheaters. Table change sir. Third, easy call. j/k

qft

[fitzinabox 0]

they were both wearing PAD gear? They way u described it made it sound like definite collusion to me.

[BeaverStyle 1]

1. Follow them to parking lot.2. ????2.5. Evade police.3. Profit.Edited for El Guapo.

[El Guapo 8]

1. Follow them to parking lot.2. ????3. Evade police.

Wait step three is profit, this makes no sense.

[CodyHartman 0]

total paranoia

says the DS who cuts up jackets and ducts tapes them together.

[BeaverStyle 1]

says the DS who cuts up jackets and ducts tapes them together.

Nice run in the $100k last night.soooo drunk was me.

[CodyHartman 0]

Nice run in the $100k last night.soooo drunk was me.

yeah so drunk that you got me confused with someone else.btw OP did you notice this happen during any other hands.

[mtdesmoines 3]

...5 minutes later the MGM power went out (it is funny to see the chaos that ensues when a whole casino goes PITCH BLACK) and when it came back on I just picked my their chips up and left.

FYL (fixed your life)

So the question I ask, is -whether it looks like collusion to you or not? -Would it be considered proper etiquette to call the floor in that situation? or just shut up and leave? (the two players to my right both agreed it looked veryvery suspicious.)thanks for the input

Yes. Yes. Yes. You can also punch them in the face.

[IWANTTOBERICHDAMMIT 0]

Situation: Two guys wearing Poker After Dark hats and shirts (they said they both worked on set) were sitting next to each other. In this hand in question, one was in the SB (stack size $122), one was in the BB ($~400). A few times prior they had gone bet, min-raise and one of those 2 had won the pot each time.Anyways, I had AT on the button ($280 in my stack), it folded to me, so I put out a typical table raise to $10. Both SB and BB called. Flop T-4-2 it goes check check, so i fire $30. Both call. THEN it gets interesting. Turn is a 6 (T-4-2-6 rainbow). SB checks, BB looks at me, then at the SBs stack and fires $40 now, I debate for awhile and just call. Then the SB raises 42 all in for 82 total, obviously now the BB goes all in over top. I now have no choice but to fold. SB flips over JT, BB flips over.....5-8These two were both apparently competent players. They had made nice calls, bets etcetc to prove (to me) that they were NOT bad players. Heres some added details, before the river came out, the SB flipped his JT and the BB says "nice hand im drawing...double gutshot"After the hand I was quite upset, I had never really experienced this before and was having a bad week already and was not about to let this go, so i asked if they knew each other, and why the BB would make a pointless raise there, and he says "oh i misread my cards, thought i had something else" even though he clearly said he was drawing before the river.Any other questions I asked, they just ignored. 5 minutes later the MGM power went out (it is funny to see the chaos that ensues when a whole casino goes PITCH BLACK) and when it came back on I just picked my chips up and left.So the question I ask, is -whether it looks like collusion to you or not? -Would it be considered proper etiquette to call the floor in that situation? or just shut up and leave? (the two players to my right both agreed it looked veryvery suspicious.)thanks for the input

I'm confused.

[a__thekevlar__2 0]

call and take their monies

[Ex_Matt 0]

My advice??Dont be sucha friggin nit folding tp/tk at sucha small game.

[El Guapo 8]

My advice??Dont be sucha friggin nit folding tp/tk at sucha small game.

Serioulsy against a raise, re-raise and re-raise?This smells as bad as my crotch after working out. They weren't even sly. If you play there regularly I would have said something. If you were on vacation and just having fun, I would have left and found another game.