2007 Five Diamond World Poker Classic Day 5 (18 Players Remaining)

[showstopper24 0]

Damn, Chip leader one minute, out the next.That KK hand was the back breaker.GG Daniel.

Nothing you can do in that spot.

[nutzbuster 7]

GG Daniel!

[MemBirdman 0]

GG Daniel!

[defy 0]

good try dan...KK vs AA..what can u do..

[xmykro 0]

I'm not that disappointed though. The KK hand was a cold deck.And the hand he was eliminated on was good spot to gamble. Blinds were getting high, and he was in it to win it.He was 31% to win and 13% to tie on the flop. The guy made a good call with the flush out there.

[govikes 0]

good try dan...KK vs AA..what can u do..

lay it down

[sholden 0]

Nothing you can do in that spot.

Phil Hellmuth would fold, he can dodge bullets...

[silkyjonson 1]

I'm not that disappointed though. The KK hand was a cold deck.And the hand he was eliminated on was good spot to gamble. Blinds were getting high, and he was in it to win it.He was 31% to win and 13% to tie on the flop. The guy made a good call with the flush out there.

Not really a good spot to gamble at all really. And if your in DN's shoes not sure if you looking to gamble just yet.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Not really a good spot to gamble at all really. And if your in DN's shoes not sure if you looking to gamble just yet.

Not sure you understand the situation or you couldn't possibly beleive that. An aggressive player makes it 90k on the button and I have A-4 in the bb. I could move in here, but take a flop instead. Ont he flop I have aces AND a flush draw. It's extremely unlikely that I'm dead here as if he has a higher heart he'd have to have two hearts or an ace with it. I check to him and he will bet a VERY wide range of hands here. He could have absolutely anything and my hand rates to do very well against that range. I moved in and he almost folded! I needed a J to tie or a heart to win but that's only because he was lucky enough to flop two pair. It's a cooler no matter how you look at it. It's different from the KK vs AA cooler, but it's a cooler nonetheless...

[justinsampson 0]

GG Daniel!!Have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year. Don't let this finish ruin your holiday Season! Enjoy the next couple weeks with your family and friends. You played an awesome tournament and just ran in to the big hand at the wrong time.Have a Great Christmas and God Bless!Justin Sampson

[psujohn 0]

This is why poker is part skill/part luck. Two hands played perfectly by everyone involved and you go from chip leader to the rail. Still an excellent run. GG DN.

[BlkJakShelak 0]

Congratulations Daniel,

[FHgrad99 0]

Tough day today but I'm sure that there are over 600 other players who were wishing that they were playing today. Here's to a great 2008.

[ObeyTheDog 0]

DN's A-4 hand is standard shove. All reads and table image aside, it takes a minimum 2-pair to call that hand or A-K with Kh. And his raising range on the button of even an average tourney player will demonstrate that he would c-bet almost any hand in this spot to pick it up. Having both an ace and a low flush draw indicates that unless the guy was fortunate to flop a flush, DN will be live at drawing or have the slight best of it against a hand like Kh-Kd, which will likely NOT call this shove anyway. There are so many hands he'll have to fold in this spot for such a sizeable raise that it sounds like he even considered folding A-8 here which I think is at the very bottom of his calling range.IMHO, DN was more unlucky in that hand than he was in the KK < AA hand. Only a poker player can figure that puzzle out how one is unluckier there. gg dn. Your success at the bellagio continues to impress.....take down the 25k championship instead.

[NickZepp 0]

I guess Dan has to be disappointed going from chip lead to out 4th or 5th today. But it's tough when you get cold decked. I would like to be unlucky and win 100k.

[StarfishAnts 0]

Tough one Daniel, GG though!

[ObeyTheDog 0]

Not sure you understand the situation or you couldn't possibly beleive that. An aggressive player makes it 90k on the button and I have A-4 in the bb. I could move in here, but take a flop instead. Ont he flop I have aces AND a flush draw. It's extremely unlikely that I'm dead here as if he has a higher heart he'd have to have two hearts or an ace with it. I check to him and he will bet a VERY wide range of hands here. He could have absolutely anything and my hand rates to do very well against that range. I moved in and he almost folded! I needed a J to tie or a heart to win but that's only because he was lucky enough to flop two pair. It's a cooler no matter how you look at it. It's different from the KK vs AA cooler, but it's a cooler nonetheless...

ugh. reminds me to read the whole thread first.Damn you got home fast....I'd hate to be your steering wheel on the way home. <BAM> <BAM> F*CKING <BAM> <HONK> <HONK> KING <BAM> F*CKING <BAM> KING <BAM> AGAINST <BAM> ACES <BAM> <HONK> F*CKING <BAM> COOLER <BAM> <HONK> <BAM>

[TB17 0]

Obey are you saying he's folding A-Qh? maybe Kh-J?

[zengame 0]

Good run, no way can you get away from the KK/AA hand.GG sir.

[silkyjonson 1]

Not sure you understand the situation or you couldn't possibly beleive that. An aggressive player makes it 90k on the button and I have A-4 in the bb. I could move in here, but take a flop instead. Ont he flop I have aces AND a flush draw. It's extremely unlikely that I'm dead here as if he has a higher heart he'd have to have two hearts or an ace with it. I check to him and he will bet a VERY wide range of hands here. He could have absolutely anything and my hand rates to do very well against that range. I moved in and he almost folded! I needed a J to tie or a heart to win but that's only because he was lucky enough to flop two pair. It's a cooler no matter how you look at it. It's different from the KK vs AA cooler, but it's a cooler nonetheless...

I agree once you see the flop that CRAI is probably the best play, but with your stack size would RRing pre flop or folding not be a better option? I think this hand is a very difficult one to play and Im not sure there is one clear cut way to play it from start to finish, tough luck on both hands though.

[IWANTTOBERICHDAMMIT 0]

Not sure you understand the situation or you couldn't possibly beleive that. An aggressive player makes it 90k on the button and I have A-4 in the bb. I could move in here, but take a flop instead. Ont he flop I have aces AND a flush draw. It's extremely unlikely that I'm dead here as if he has a higher heart he'd have to have two hearts or an ace with it. I check to him and he will bet a VERY wide range of hands here. He could have absolutely anything and my hand rates to do very well against that range. I moved in and he almost folded! I needed a J to tie or a heart to win but that's only because he was lucky enough to flop two pair. It's a cooler no matter how you look at it. It's different from the KK vs AA cooler, but it's a cooler nonetheless...

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed in you. I expect better, Canada expects better..indonesia probably expects better.lol jk budahhhh.. i love poker

[ObeyTheDog 0]

Obey are you saying he's folding A-Qh? maybe Kh-J?

A-Qh is definitely near the bottom end of his range to call. Kh-Jx.....this isn't the Sunday Million. You don't exactly call off 800k more (what amounted to 75% of his chip stack) with the nut flush draw (EDIT: I see pair and a flush draw, but DN is still a slight favorite to beat Kh-J, but I agree, he's callinga fair amount with this hand)....unless of course you're Kido Pham. But I didn't include Kh-Jx because that is one of the hands DN is ahead of slightly (albeit a coin toss). His options are really to fold or shove. If he's calling the preflop raise with A-4 and check folding on a flop like this, there is no reason to be calling preflop to begin with. Villain's range is so huge here, and villain can still only call with probably half a dozen hands, and DN is only less than 25% against a made flush, AxKh, AxQh. Based on this shove, DN wins this pot on the flop CR at least 70% of the time, and when he gets called the other 30%, he's winning about 25% of those pots. If that's not a good spot, I don't know what is. He has tremendous fold and pot equity with this play.It's pokerspeak for unlucky really.

[ObeyTheDog 0]

I agree once you see the flop that CRAI is probably the best play, but with your stack size would RRing pre flop or folding not be a better option? I think this hand is a very difficult one to play and Im not sure there is one clear cut way to play it from start to finish, tough luck on both hands though.

This isn't how small ball players think. i'd estimate that DN reraises preflop less than 10% of the hands he plays, and either opens or flat calls raises in position or from the blinds. Math players may hate this approach who are born of the school to "raise or fold, never call" but this style involves seeing a lot of flops and getting money in spots/situations instead of swinging for the fences.Imagine if he did reraise being so deep. Making it 260k to go with about 700k behind? If villain rereraises, he is folding now, investing 25% of his chips, turning his hand essentially into 7-2. If villain calls, the "right" play from that point from a mathematical standpoint will be shoving OOP a wide range of boards to pick up the heavy amount invested preflop, a much weaker postflop play. Instead, investing less preflop allows for more interesting and profitable tournament situations to develop, such as flopping the best hand, the best draw, or the best board to bluff. It allows to keep the pot smaller when he's way behind, to draw out when he's way behind, and to use his chips more effectively to accomplish the same goal (to win the pot). From my limited experience, this is the superior approach to deep stack major tournaments. Keeping in mind my limited scope, in the wsop me, I reraised preflop on day 2 and day 3 exactly 4 hands total I believe. A-A, K-K, x-x (dark), and A-K on a squeeze. Keeping pots smaller and opening or flat caling in position earned far more chips than by reraising and put me at less risk. Admittedly, I probably spewed a lot of chips defending my blinds, but I'm learning.

[TB17 0]

A-Qh is definitely near the bottom end of his range to call. Kh-Jx.....this isn't the Sunday Million. You don't exactly call off 800k more (what amounted to 75% of his chip stack) with the nut flush draw (EDIT: I see pair and a flush draw, but DN is still a slight favorite to beat Kh-J, but I agree, he's callinga fair amount with this hand)....unless of course you're Kido Pham. But I didn't include Kh-Jx because that is one of the hands DN is ahead of slightly (albeit a coin toss). His options are really to fold or shove. If he's calling the preflop raise with A-4 and check folding on a flop like this, there is no reason to be calling preflop to begin with. Villain's range is so huge here, and villain can still only call with probably half a dozen hands, and DN is only less than 25% against a made flush, AxKh, AxQh. Based on this shove, DN wins this pot on the flop CR at least 70% of the time, and when he gets called the other 30%, he's winning about 25% of those pots. If that's not a good spot, I don't know what is. He has tremendous fold and pot equity with this play.It's pokerspeak for unlucky really.

I definitely don't mind the shove I just thought your range was a little tight and agree with what you said here.

[silkyjonson 1]

This isn't how small ball players think. i'd estimate that DN reraises preflop less than 10% of the hands he plays, and either opens or flat calls raises in position or from the blinds. Math players may hate this approach who are born of the school to "raise or fold, never call" but this style involves seeing a lot of flops and getting money in spots/situations instead of swinging for the fences.Imagine if he did reraise being so deep. Making it 260k to go with about 700k behind? If villain rereraises, he is folding now, investing 25% of his chips, turning his hand essentially into 7-2. If villain calls, the "right" play from that point from a mathematical standpoint will be shoving OOP a wide range of boards to pick up the heavy amount invested preflop, a much weaker postflop play. Instead, investing less preflop allows for more interesting and profitable tournament situations to develop, such as flopping the best hand, the best draw, or the best board to bluff. It allows to keep the pot smaller when he's way behind, to draw out when he's way behind, and to use his chips more effectively to accomplish the same goal (to win the pot). From my limited experience, this is the superior approach to deep stack major tournaments. Keeping in mind my limited scope, in the wsop me, I reraised preflop on day 2 and day 3 exactly 4 hands total I believe. A-A, K-K, x-x (dark), and A-K on a squeeze. Keeping pots smaller and opening or flat caling in position earned far more chips than by reraising and put me at less risk. Admittedly, I probably spewed a lot of chips defending my blinds, but I'm learning.

I understand the small ball approach and I do think its the best way to approach deep stacked tourneys, in this case though A-4 is not going to flop well most of the time and OOP just calling with this hand is going to be difficult with the stacks. Assuming DN was a little deeper then he has a little more room to get cute with this hand but in this case a lot of the time he can be dominated and if he misses he will have to commit a large % of his stack in order to take down the hand which is the opposite of small ball play. Obviously this is a great flop for his hand, but this exemplifies why playing A4 os OO is dangerous.