Qq Post Flop Play

[Ricer98 0]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (6 handed) Ultimate-Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)CO ($29.35)Hero ($179.60)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . UTG raises to $1.75, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO calls $6.25.Flop: ($18.25) , , (2 players)Hero checks, CO checks.Turn: ($18.25) (2 players)Hero checks, CO (thinks for 5-10 sec) bets $6, Hero calls $6.River: ($30.25) (2 players)Hero checks, CO (insta) bets $15.35 (All-In), Hero ???No stats on villian, table in general was playing fairly weak tight, I had been playing loose and aggressive.

[throwemaway 0]

Just bet 14 on the flop and commit yourself to his stack..He only has 21 behind so its going all in regardless

[Metternich 0]

only things I can see this being are a worse PP, a busted FD, or a huge monster like KK. I call the river.

[nomad_monad 0]

if you're even thinking about folding a non A river, just fold the turnif you're not going to fold the turn or river, c/r the turni'd c/r the turn

[Zach6668 513]

Bet the flop.

[2pair05 0]

yeah , you really gotta bet the flop here. if you do , hands over but sense you didnt you have to call the river. Your 2 to 1 pot odds

[craiger 0]

It feels like he either has KK or AA to me. His turn bet of 1/3 the pot screams "CALL ME". But then again, you checked every street so he could have anything.

[NoBBiR 0]

It feels like he either has KK or AA to me. His turn bet of 1/3 the pot screams "CALL ME". But then again, you checked every street so he could have anything.

He flat called two raises preflop with KK or AA? I doubt that. I think this is a hand like AK or KQ, given the weak-tight read, or air. Just bet the flop and it's easier.

[craiger 0]

He flat called two raises preflop with KK or AA? I doubt that. I think this is a hand like AK or KQ, given the weak-tight read, or air. Just bet the flop and it's easier.

People flat call raises with aces and kings all the time. Okay maybe he could have AK, but he would have to be REALLY bad to flat call 2 raises pre-flop with KQ. But it doesn't matter. Because even if you are right, both AK and KQ still have us dominated on the flop, just like AA or KK did. So his bet still screams "CALL ME".

[Snamuh 0]

Based on the size of the pot on the flop and the amount in his stack, I think you absolutely have to get all-in. I'm really only checking this flop vs deeper stacked opponents for deception/pot control purposes. Turn check/call is pretty bad (you called yourself LAG?).

[mtdesmoines 3]

No stats on villian, table in general was playing fairly weak tight, I had been playing loose and aggressive.

I think I bet the flop and check this down if I get called. Calling your PF action and checking that flop means AA KK or AK JJ (or the unlikely QQ). You are behind almost his entire range, especially when he dumps chips into the pot on the river.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Bet the flop and the hand plays itself.

[Ricer98 0]

I actually had no questions at all about this hands, just wanted to see what responses would be. I was curious because of a previous thread about what to do with KK after 4 betting preflop and an A hittin the flop. As expected, the majority said lead out then the hand isn't hard to play. I actually don't think there is any hard decision about this hand even with not betting the flop. River is an easy easy snap call against the villians range. Just looking at how I played the hand I look extremely weak passive, OMG a K hit and I have QQ I check. In fact that seemed to be the general response to what I posted in the other thread. When you put the thought process with it though things are extremely different. Villians range based on preflop action:After calling the first raise the villians range is pretty wide, when he just calls the second I think it slims it down substantially. I can see AA or KK just flat calling the initial raise, but I'd expect either of these to spring the trap after my raise the vast majority of the time. Its possible the villian just called twice but not likely enough that I am worried about either. AJs+ and AKo play this way, maybe even AQo, alot of weaker players will not raise with strong aces but often don't fold them preflop when reraised. 88-JJ definetly make sense for the villian, again weak players don't like to fold pairs preflop. I didn't expect any boardway or suited connectors as I hadn't seen the player get out of line with his preflop calls before. Flop: So if I was right about the villians range preflop the only hand that hit this flop is AK, unless he picked up a flush draw with a strong ace. If I lead out on this flop the most likely hands I am representing are AA, KK, or AK given my preflop action. Representing one of these three hands gives the villian the chance to fold the majority of the hands in his range that I have crushed. Since I don't want these hands folding I elect to check to make my hand look weaker and give the villian a chance to take a stab at the pot. I can do this because of my aggressive image, when I check players often see it as I have given up on the pot and try to take it away from me. I could easily have been making a squeeze play preflop with a wide range which is why I thought the odds were good the villian might try to bluff the pot. Unfortunetly, he did not ablige and we see the turn.Turn:That card does nothing for the villians range, and with his check on the flop I discredit him having AK very often. Normally I would make a value bet here but with the villian having only a little bit over the size of the pot left I choose to give him one more shot at bluffing. My back up plan if he checked again was to push to river, looking suspiciously like I was bluffing in the process. This time the villian makes a small bet at the pot. This bet can be seen two ways, I have a monster and want to price you in, or I have two 8's and want to see if their good. Anyone who said check/calling was horrible, stop and think about that. If he has the monster, oh well, I raise, he insta calls, next hand. If he has that weaker pair of 8's or A high and is just testing the water what says he calls when I raise him all-in. He'd be getting pretty good odds but still might lay it down. It could be argued he has so little left in relation to the pot after he bet he has to call, but check/calling is by no means the horrible play its been made out to be.River:This is the one spot in the hand I'm not entirely sure off. The 4 should not have helped my hand so leading out may get called by weak holdings. Allthough, if I check the same weak holdings plus a possible missed flush draw get the opportunity to bluff thinking I missed a draw of some sort or that I have a hand simialr to theirs that they can push me off of. I don't know, there may be more value in just betting out as alot of the middle pair types hands may just check behind because they have showdown value. As weak as I have acted through out the hand there is no way I'm ever folding this river card, or just about any river card for that matter. I played it to maximize value and let the villian bluff off a range I am in very good shape against so if he hits I just have to pay him off. The only real point to this was to try to show people that just leading flops like this because its the easy way to play the hand is by no means always the right or most profitable play. Also, checking for a reason does not equal weak passive play. On the flop I know I am about a 2-1 favorite against the range I have assigned the villian and that he has very few outs to improve. On top of that I am repping a very strong hand when I lead out; checking seem like the obvious play. I want to keep the villian in the pot, not scare him off.

[Snamuh 0]

The thing is, if he has a mid-pocket pair, he will stack off on this flop (or at least call your flop bet). If he has AQ/AJ, he might still call as he's a donk. If he has any broadway clubs, the money is getting in. By checking the flop, you allow an A to roll off and scare him off. Or you don't get max value off of draws.What exactly are you hoping he'll hit if he whiffed? If he's going to fold to a flop c-bet, it's probably only with a big ace that missed that he'll only stack off if he pairs the ace.

[NoBBiR 0]

People flat call raises with aces and kings all the time. Okay maybe he could have AK, but he would have to be REALLY bad to flat call 2 raises pre-flop with KQ. But it doesn't matter. Because even if you are right, both AK and KQ still have us dominated on the flop, just like AA or KK did. So his bet still screams "CALL ME".

Weak-Tight means that people are going to call 2 raises with paint, thats what weak-tight players do. IT LOOKS PRETTY.And it absolutely matter, betting the flop makes this hand 10x easier, then you don't have to worry about calling his "CALL ME" bet.

[nomad_monad 0]

this hand is not the same as the KK hand.here, if villain pots, he's pretty much all-in. given that, a flop check is fine, provided you CRAI if he leaves his $1 behind. the main thing here is that you gain just as much from letting villain bluff as you lose from calling off to a better handin the other hand, there's a decent % of the pre-betting pot that's still left unplayed after a pot bet on the flop. much of the time you don't get that from the villain if you c/r or continue because villain's freezing with a worse hand, and you always lose that much extra when a better hand stacks you. whatever value you get from a worse hand bluffing is outweighed by losing the pot to a bluff or worse, by stacking off to a better hand.also, on this hand, you still made a mistake - once villain bets the turn, you should've CRAI'ed, especially since you were commiting yourself to calling a river bet. villain could easily have an A or a flush draw, but you're making it cheap for him to outdraw by just calling. you might have picked off a bluff here by calling all the way down, but most of the time a weaker hand just checks behind on the river, especially since you described villain as weak-tight.

[Ricer98 0]

The thing is, if he has a mid-pocket pair, he will stack off on this flop (or at least call your flop bet). If he has AQ/AJ, he might still call as he's a donk. If he has any broadway clubs, the money is getting in. By checking the flop, you allow an A to roll off and scare him off. Or you don't get max value off of draws.What exactly are you hoping he'll hit if he whiffed? If he's going to fold to a flop c-bet, it's probably only with a big ace that missed that he'll only stack off if he pairs the ace.

I don't think all mid pairs are stacking off here because I am showing a ton of strength and putting the villian into a very tough spot. I'm not looking for him to hit anything, I want to make my hand look weak enough to ensure he stacks off a middle pair. Also I'm not really worried about losing value from draws as they make up so very little of his range, precisely AcQc or AcJc. Thats only 2 of the possible 32 hand combinations that make up the range I gave him after the flop. This is probably more of an issue of the table dynamics that no else experienced. I was by far the most aggressive at the table, everyone else had bought in for 50bb's and was playing fairly weak poker. However, I didn't feel like I was getting more action because of this. Preflop I was still mostly only getting 1 caller and no one was really calling/stacking off light, they were mostly waiting for a hand against me. It did though seem like every time I checked whoever was in a hand against me saw it as a green light to try to take the pot away; as was the case here as the villian showed up with AhJh.

[Ricer98 0]

Weak-Tight means that people are going to call 2 raises with paint, thats what weak-tight players do. IT LOOKS PRETTY.And it absolutely matter, betting the flop makes this hand 10x easier, then you don't have to worry about calling his "CALL ME" bet.

I think what you are describing is more of a loose passive player. When I say weak tight I generally see that as not playing very many hands, never value betting with marginal holdings that are probably good, checking and trying to hit draws before committing chips, that sort of stuff.