The Final Chapter?

[gkunit20 1]

So, this semester at college, I've been taking a religion seminar class entitled "God: A Biography" in which we have talked about multiple, multiple religions, both western and eastern, their belief systems, history, and views on God. Yesterday was the last official class. In it, my professor raised three interesting questions:1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?My answers:1) IMHO, it would destroy the faith system if God came down and made himself known for a few reasons. First off, faith is something you should have to work at. If God made himself known to us, there's no reason to work anymore. You have your answer. Also, if God came down, it takes all the mystery out of religion. Part of the reason we have religion is to believe in something that may or may not be there. If we know for a fact it's there, what is there left to believe in? Our question has been answered.2) If God came down, I think his message would not have changed because we as humans have not changed. We still murder, we still adult, we still don't worship only God (maybe not idols, but we worship celebrities). Therefore, there'd be no reason to change the message because the people the message is intended for haven't changed.3) I think the Final Chapter would entail God saying something along the lines of "I've done everything I can. It's time for them to finish it." and letting us as people, animals, single-celled organisms fend for ourselves, work to better ourselves, etc...But those are my opinions, and as with all aspects of religion, they're definitely not the only ones. What do you guys think?

[hblask 1]

So, this semester at college, I've been taking a religion seminar class entitled "God: A Biography" in which we have talked about multiple, multiple religions, both western and eastern, their belief systems, history, and views on God. Yesterday was the last official class. In it, my professor raised three interesting questions:1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?

1) It wouldn't be "faith" any more, it would just be fact. It would be very good for religion and all forms of piety.2) The message would be "What part of 'thou shalt not kill' do you fail to understand?"3) God and the shy girl, who used to wear glasses because she didn't think she was good looking but has since given up wearing them, walk off together hand-in-hand, with their cute kids kicking a rock along in front of them.

[speedz99 145]

1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?

1) That depends on what religion(s) it turns out was correct. 2) If he's showing himself, I'm guessing the message would be pretty rough. Something along the lines of, "Shape up or I'm starting over." 3) Big Gulps, huh? Alriiiiight. Well, see you later!

[LongLiveYorke 38]

2) The message would be "What part of 'thou shalt not kill' do you fail to understand?"

Yeah, pretty much.

[ShakeZuma 585]

1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?

1) Like hblask said, it would just be fact, making things a lot simpler. although we wouldn't have anywhere near all these super fun wars that kill thousands of people every year, but oh well.2) haha, you know that whole thing about pre-marital sex? I was just fuckin with you.3) "I Think I've Made a Huge Mistake"

[Balloon guy 158]

1) That depends on what religion(s) it turns out was correct. Mine, silly2) If he's showing himself, I'm guessing the message would be pretty rough. Something along the lines of, "Shape up or I'm starting over." More like: "Sorry for the inconvience"3) Big Gulps, huh? Alriiiiight. Well, see you later!This is so sacreligious that I will not deem to stoop down far enough to explain why you are in danger of having a piano fall on you.

[Balloon guy 158]

1. I've always heard it explained that God is a gentleman and would not force obediance out of us by showing Himself. Although a really good chapter in the Bible is when Moses is asked by God what he would like God to do for him, and Moses says; "Show yourself to me" Let us turn to the book of Exodus chapter 33:

17And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. 18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Now chapter 34:

5And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. 8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

So verses 6 and 7 are the back of God, how wonderful must His front be.

[jmkiser 0]

1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?

Although the questions are worded "interestingly", they are really more deceptive then anything.1) There has never been a case in history where "faith" is a good thing without evidence. My wife loves me and shows her love for me, therefore I have faith in her when she goes out with her girlfriends to the bar. Instead of asking what is "good" for faith, maybe you should start by asking if the faith being discussed is a good thing. That is a much more legitimate question.2) To me, if God really existed, he would come down and tell everyone truth. I have no respect for this "father-figure" god that isn't agreed upon in the least bit on who it is, what it is, what it says, etc. The terrible things that happen due to confusion in what truth is... well... I would blame that on a higher power. Why? Because someone with the ability to set things straight, isn't doing a damn thing. Yeah, you can re-argue with the whole "a dad will let his son put a fork in a power socket and get shocked so the son knows to never do it again" argument, but it logically doesn't work. It has been over 2000 years since "christ" and most of the people who are learning/growing up are the people who don't believe in god in the first place.3) Eh, final chapter? That would assume an end of time (which we have no idea about). And not only are we talking about the end of time, but we're talking about a "chapter" which implies that there is a significant portion that deserves to be grouped together. These are two things that we have no idea about and anybody claiming to know... well, yeah, sorry, but it's decently crazy to me.

[crowTrobot 2]

1. I've always heard it explained that God is a gentleman and would not force obediance out of us by showing Himself.

i heard the same thing about the FSM.

[checkymcfold 0]

1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?

1. it would probably kill what serves as the essence of faith for a lot of people if this happened. but i think that most of those people would be pleased that god "revealed himself" or whatever.2. gays and shellfish-consumers are on the same level, and lobsters and buttsecks are both fairly awesome.3. i do actually think that religion as we know it may disappear sometime in the next couple centuries, but i'm not entirely sure as to whether that's a good thing or not. as for god, i like the nietzschean story, wherein he basically just passes on and people don't really care any more about it than they would about a random obituary. god's death as fact rather than prescriptive ethical command, etc., etc. seems to me that such a set of "death" circumstances would indicate that the world was ready for him to go. not sure that we're there yet, though. not that i really care one way or the other.

[brvheart 1,757]

BG, huh? the Big Gulps line was funny... what are you talking about? God doesn't like Dumb and Dumber?

[crowTrobot 2]

3. i do actually think that religion as we know it may disappear sometime in the next couple centuries, but i'm not entirely sure as to whether that's a good thing or not. as for god, i like the nietzschean story, wherein he basically just passes on and people don't really care any more about it than they would about a random obituary. god's death as fact rather than prescriptive ethical command, etc., etc. seems to me that such a set of "death" circumstances would indicate that the world was ready for him to go. not sure that we're there yet, though. not that i really care one way or the other.

hey checky, have you seen the "beyond belief" conference videos? if not you'd love it - a lot of it is atheists scientists and philosophers arguing whether religeon is a good thing or not, with many bashing dawkins & harris for their approaches.the entire 2006 and now 2007 conferences are available as full sessions (2-4 hours each) on google video. search by "beyond belief session".

[Balloon guy 158]

BG, huh? the Big Gulps line was funny... what are you talking about? God doesn't like Dumb and Dumber?

I missed the reference. But now that you've explained it, I still miss the reference, but I had to have a number 3 there...what could I do?

[checkymcfold 0]

hey checky, have you seen the "beyond belief" conference videos? if not you'd love it - a lot of it is atheists scientists and philosophers arguing whether religeon is a good thing or not, with many bashing dawkins & harris for their approaches.the entire 2006 and now 2007 conferences are available as full sessions (2-4 hours each) on google video. search by "beyond belief session".

will give it a look, ty (though not till after the holidays, i think--out of town till dec 30). i remember almost applying to go to the 2006 one, lol.

[speedz99 145]

I missed the reference. But now that you've explained it, I still miss the reference

The first 10 seconds of this clip explains it.

[Balloon guy 158]

The first 10 seconds of this clip explains it.

Thank you for saving me from having to watch that movie again.Who am I kidding, I loved it. I went to get fitted for my tux for my daughter's wedding today and I tried to convince my wife that the blue tux with ruffles, top hat and a cane would be really well recieved. She didn't go for it.

[timwakefield 68]

3.

[timwakefield 68]

^^ What, nobody gets Douglas Adams references?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

1) Would it be good for faith if God (assuming there is a God) came down from his heavenly castle and gave us his message instead of sending prophets to do it for him?God being pure and just couldn't be in our presence without destroying us.God doesn't want us to just believe that he exists. He wants us to know that he is needed; that he is the source of Love, Justice, and Mercy. A world without God, in the end, has none of these things. God wants people that believe in Love and Justice for all, and that they desire it to such an extent that they, realizing they can never posess or despense either in a fair way, would seek the source and turn their souls over to he that could bring Love, Justice, and Mercy, to them and to those they Love.Who appreciated his father more in the parable of the prodical son??? 2) If God did come down to give us a message, what would that message be? He did come down and gave very clear message. I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father except through me. Love your neighbor as yourself.You are your brothers keeperJust to name the most basic. Would it have changed from his message to Abraham, Moses, etc...?"Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." 3) What will the "Final Chapter" in God's Biography be?The same as the final chapter of most other great works. The Triumph of Good over Evil.

[speedz99 145]

Religious people are so fucking weird.

[crowTrobot 2]

God being pure and just couldn't be in our presence without destroying us.

so there are limits on what god can do? hu?

God doesn't want us to just believe that he exists. He wants us to know that he is needed; that he is the source of Love, Justice, and Mercy. A world without God, in the end, has none of these things. God wants people that believe in Love and Justice for all, and that they desire it to such an extent that they, realizing they can never posess or despense either in a fair way, would seek the source and turn their souls over to he that could bring Love, Justice, and Mercy, to them and to those they Love.

nice cult-speak. you can insert "the bhagwan" for god and it sounds equally appealing

The same as the final chapter of most other great works. The Triumph of Good over Evil.

great works? you mean fiction??

[Zealous Donkey 0]

so there are limits on what god can do? hu?nice cult-speak. you can insert "the bhagwan" for god and it sounds equally appealing great works? you mean fiction??

so there are limits on what god can do? hu?Are you asking if God can make a rock so big he can't lift it??nice cult-speak. you can insert "the bhagwan" for god and it sounds equally appealing great works? you mean fiction??Ah, nice to hear from you again crow(really) , even if it is the same ole all religions are equally cultish argument. Are you one of the ones who believes all good and evil is in the eye of the beholder. At least most of the great works of fiction aknowledge to existiance of good and evil.

[jmkiser 0]

At least most of the great works of fiction aknowledge to existiance of good and evil.

ok?

[crowTrobot 2]

Are you asking if God can make a rock so big he can't lift it??

no. i'm pointing out that it should be obvious to anyone capable of any level of objective logical thought that the idea that an all-powerful god who created us in the first place has to hide from us because his presence would destroy us is nothing but primitive superstitious nonsense. even by typical religious standards it's obvious dogmatic excuse-making.

Ah, nice to hear from you again crow(really) , even if it is the same ole all religions are equally cultish argument.

what you wrote was pretty cultish - believe in god because he wants you to need him, believe in god because love, justice, mercy come from him etc. you're just making easily refuted statements that appeal to emotionalism like any other cult would do.

Are you one of the ones who believes all good and evil is in the eye of the beholder.

no, i believe good and evil are just names for positive and negative social traits - the product of social evolution.

At least most of the great works of fiction aknowledge to existiance of good and evil.

news flash: works of fiction aren't evidence something exists

[Zealous Donkey 0]

ok?

There are some atheistic philosophies that think all good and evil is relative to each individual. Sorry I don't have a formal philosophy back round or would use the correct terminology. Relativism may be the term for which I am reaching. Correct me if I am wrong. You and crow probably don't fall into that category. That I am glad of. As far as atheists go you are the most fun to argue against.