Acid_Knight 2 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 That was fricking Durrrr who just turned 21 at that FT omg.MarkAh. Ok. But Garza did make the one at Niagara Falls, right? Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I disagree. What's to stop Sorel or anyone else from not even having any personal accounts and just sweating the big tournies and buying someone out at the end? Would you be OK with this? What if there were 20 of the top online players doing this?At best, I would have broke Sorel's legs if he did that to me and rubbed it in my face. At worst, I would have made sure he couldn't ever use a mouse again.I wasn't defending what Sorel did. I agree with you. Furthermore, this is now explicitly against the rules (it wasn't back then). I was defending mattg, the victim, who was being accused of cheating because he did not report Sorel. I was just explaining why matt did not pursuing the issue against sorel doesn't make him a cheater himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Ok, I was under the impression that the programs allowed you to collect/have data about other players even if you never played against them.Carry on.I actually think that Full Tilt is the only site that lets you datamine. Basically, you can open up as many as 16 tables as an observer and Pokertracker will log VPIP, PFR and all of that good stuff for you while you're at work. Of course, I wouldn't know anything about this since it's not like I'm doing that exact thing right now :)Yeah, all of the other sites only log info from tables that you're sitting and hands that you were dealt into. Full Tilt gives more access. If Full Tilt didn't exist, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this agrument Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Ah. Ok. But Garza did make the one at Niagara Falls, right?Yes, he finished 6th at Niagara. Link to post Share on other sites
blakheart 3 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I disagree. What's to stop Sorel or anyone else from not even having any personal accounts and just sweating the big tournies and buying someone out at the end? Would you be OK with this? What if there were 20 of the top online players doing this?At best, I would have broke Sorel's legs if he did that to me and rubbed it in my face. At worst, I would have made sure he couldn't ever use a mouse again.Anybody wonder Why Sorel did not recoginize Matt when he bragged to him 5 minutes later? Was Matt playing under an alias? Link to post Share on other sites
blakheart 3 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I mean, good for dude that he has shipped all this money but he's still a pathetic scammer in my opinion. Real ****ing easy to pay somebody back the 1.5k you owe them and claim you "forgot about the debt" after you ship 500k but when you are down your true character shows. Clearly this is not somebody to be associated with.Nice read on his true Charactor, Grinder. (in thread about Vaughn, refering to Vaughn) Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Greed-one of the seven deadly sins Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Anybody wonder Why Sorel did not recoginize Matt when he bragged to him 5 minutes later? Was Matt playing under an alias?Sorel did recognize him, hence IMing Matt to let him know that he was the one that Matt had lost to HU. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Yeah, it's true if you lose connection, or your Uncle gets a heart attack and you need to take him to hospital, or something, you can get a friend to play for you. But it's not legal to just let someone play on your a/c because they are a better playerUsing the word "legal" when it comes to online poker is kind of silly ... there is no legal oversight of online poker. There's only the industry's word. Everyone should always always always remember that. The word, "permitted" is much better. Anyway, this is one of the reasons I don't like online poker. You can't swap bodies in a live tournament, no matter what. An entrant is an entrant. So why should you be able to online? On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to know who you're playing against, and un-police-able. Link to post Share on other sites
Tiltinagain 973 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I wonder if there is anyone I like enough that I would NOT turn them in if they cheated me out of 17K?QFMFT!!ActionJeff comes off as a tool imo. Saying that he is under no obligation to turn in someone he knows is breaking the rules shows hisutter lack of character and morals and is ridiculously hyprocritical.The unabombers brother turned him in because he was absolutely morally obligated to protect innocent lives since he had the ability to do so.ActionJeff, or anyone else for that matter, has the same obligation to protect the innocent from being cheated/robbed by multiaccounters etc...if they have the ability. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I'm pretty sure he recently turned 21.LOL.is this serious?and lol @ everything. Link to post Share on other sites
Ex_Matt 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 So I've started using a heating pad while playing tournaments. It makes my back feel like butter. Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 all i have to say is that i now think actionjeff is a ****ing idiot.edit: it's so disgustingly obvious that if the guys doing this weren't his friends, he'd be all about reporting them to whoever takes those sorts of emails. selective morals make me want to vomit. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Nice read on his true Charactor, Grinder. (in thread about Vaughn, refering to Vaughn)GrinderMJ makes pristine reads in all facets of life. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 tournaments are for suckers Link to post Share on other sites
ObeyTheDog 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Guys, seriously, this thing goes on all the time. All the time. I have never done it. I have never offered nor accepted a deal to play for somebody else. There is a big dfference between helping out a friend who is having a power outage, an emergency, etc. and a cash equity exchange in a tourney that the player has already busted out of.Multiaccounting, collusion, laptop circle fests, ALL go on on a daily basis. It's sickening really. There are some people here even who I know to be in the same location, playing high level satellite qualifiers, who made it very deep nearing the bubble where 10-15 seats were awarded. They were in the same room, playing this satellite and were at the same table with access to each others hole cards. Now, they may have done the honorable thing and stayed in their own rooms or did not share information, which is what I'd hope these players did, but who knows really. The area is gray, the temptation is there. It happens live too. Once at a caesars qualifier, I saw a somewhat well known pro 3 handed for a 10k seat (it was a 1k SnG sattie). They were discussing a chip equity chop with a local guy who I was sweating, and up comes another somewhat well known pro, a friend of the others, who comes in and laughs at the other two because they are friends and asks how long before they squeeze the third guy out. They would fold their blinds, chip dump to each other, it was just gross. Luckily poker justice took over and my friend busted them both, but these were pros angle shooting, bullying for a chip equity chop, doing everything they could to get the desired result. With money involved, people do crazy stupid shit. Truth is, you are accepting this degree of cheating when you play online poker. You should NOT feel secure despite what marketing machines of online sites try to sell you that their security team is top notch. They do a pretty good job and do what they can and you should EXPECT and DEMAND that these investigations take place and those players held accountable at some point. But catching them IN THE ACT does NOT occur, only after the fact. Which means, players will CONTINUE to cheat because it is possible, because it is relatively "anonymous" behind a computer screen, and because there is money involved. This is why I don't play much online poker and I don't consider myself a conspiracy nut or a nit. I do this for a living, I give up a lot of EV by playing less because it brings me enjoyment out of the life I gain. It's a decision you all have to make because cheating is not going anywhere in online poker and situations like these will be around for years and years, as long as there is gold left to be mined. In the poker world, and I lubs ya all, people can't be trusted. It's a world of selective morals based on high school cliques and business interests. Try as I might, honest, respectful, responsible and hard working poker players are the exception, not the norm. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 This is total bullshit. Everyone idolized Sorel as this online poker God but he turns out to be just as guilty of cheating/multiaccounting as Justin Bonomo and JJ Progidy.I can't believe this shit is still going on. I used to think playing online was safe and secure but I guess my viewpoint on this has changed a bit.There are no ethics in online poker. "Nice guys finish last" and “It’s immoral to let a sucker keep his money” are fitting. Link to post Share on other sites
Elo and AG 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 At best, I would have broke Sorel's legs if he did that to me and rubbed it in my face. At worst, I would have made sure he couldn't ever use a mouse again.Agreed..... I would do the exact same thing, but he will still find a way to play.......... Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 GrinderMJ makes pristine reads in all facets of life.Especially when it comes to hotel rooms and certain substances. Link to post Share on other sites
Ouch-8s 4 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Especially when it comes to hotel rooms and certain substances.don't forget watches and women. Link to post Share on other sites
scottyno 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I'm too lazy to read all of this, but he was on "Big Poker Sunday" with Scott Huff and Haralabos last week and they specifically asked him about this exact practice, because I guess he had been accused of it before by people, and of course he outright denied it and said it was something he would never do.:oops Link to post Share on other sites
obizee 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I do not play in the $100+ mtt's, (hardly ever over $15) but for those who do it is amazing that some of them just accept this and keep information away from the sites, that could at least inconvience the cheaters if not ban them. It is a huge deal to be playing with one person for a while then all of a sudden have a "new style" emerge from that person. I play 95% for fun and dont feel the need to worry too much at the stakes I play. But with all the shady news almost every month lately some in the poker community are making it harder and harder to defend online poker to people who might be thinking of depositing some $. And they are making it easier for the Trent Lotts of the world to make Online Poker look shitty. If people know about shady shit set up an anonymous email and send in what you know. I love Poker live or online and hate to see the so called elite bring it down. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 i cheat a lot.bklice, grindermj, msals and all stakees are like going to take over the pokerworlddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd with our schemes iph4x wildabeasts sparrows and shit like that.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 im known to multi table the 1v1 cash games. it's awesome owning myself over and over. i never lose.--srsly though. this doesn't surprise me.not the reason i dont play mtts a lot, but this could be a good reason.id be more worried in tournies like the 100r and higher, and not sooo much the sunday mils, but w/e...also big buy-in satty's.it's unfortunate, and very lame, but i dont think it's fair to say a TON of top players cheat. dont turn this into a witch hunt.it is unsettling though that the guys that do do this, or know who do it, dont do anything about it.i mean, yea, they are your "friends" but if i knew my friends were robbing banks on the weekends, and i wasn't involved...i'm pretty sure that's the sort of thing you'd be pretty foolish to not report.thing is, it's online. online chit is so hard to you know, manage and stuff like that.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 all i have to say is that i now think actionjeff is a ****ing idiot.edit: it's so disgustingly obvious that if the guys doing this weren't his friends, he'd be all about reporting them to whoever takes those sorts of emails. selective morals make me want to vomit.The 2+2 thread makes me laugh so hard. People are fellating Jeff like it's some heroic post. I, for one, don't usually think people are particularly credible when they say things like "I don't really care about morals or any of that crap..." The post feels like a giant level.MLG is the only one who makes any sense in that thread imo. Link to post Share on other sites
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