1mperium (sorel Mizzi) In A Heap Of Trouble...

[longshottwelve 0]

MIIIIKKKEEE.What up, bro'?

What up, brother.I disagree with the artistic direction for your new video. Instead of pippy longstockings we're going with the claymation world of Rudolf the Red nosed reindeer. Hail Satan Clause.

[GWCGWC 83]

I wonder what stars will find when they investigate his Sunday Million on stars win now.I don't think there's much chance that he played all of that himself either.

I'm pretty sure they do a cursory investigation of all players at the FT. I would hope that Stars looks at his account very closely given this new info. It's very unlikely he won the Stars Mill by himself. That would be like me winning. While possible, not very likely.

Just a quick side question: how do these people get contacted when they get deep? Say I'm in the final 18 of the Sunday Million.... how would anyone know to reach me to offer to buy my account? The only thing I can think is to search the poker message boards, hope the user name matches, and PM me. Is that what they do? Cuz I don't think I'd be checking for PMs at that point.

The poker world is smaller than you think.

[Spademan 94]

What up, brother.I disagree with the artistic direction for your new video. Instead of pippy longstockings we're going with the claymation world of Rudolf the Red nosed reindeer. Hail Satan Clause.

UmmmmmmmHate you call you out there, broham...But when I said a mix of TOOL and Pippy, I was TALKING ABOUT CLAYMATION.Have you never seen a TOOL VIDEO?

[Gallo 1]

It's only an advantage at all because people choose not to use it. If everyone used it, it'd just be another part of the game. The information is immediately available to you and this is just a way of keeping track. If there were some reason why some people were not allowed ot use the programs, then yes, it would be an unfair advantage, but still not cheating.What keeps you from going out and DLing PT, PA Hud and other programs? Nothing.

IDK, to me it's like taking a test and you use cheat sheets when playing. You say that the info is available to everyone and these tools are just a way of keeping track. Then shouldn't I be able to have a choice or whatever in blocking my info to these said programs?

[Jam-Fly 8]

Of course not. But that certainly is a different tone from your first few posts. You might want to reread them. e.g. I wasn't accusing you of having no integrity, I just said it seemed you didn't care about it. You could see where I got that impression?

OK, I can see what your saying, but what I mean by I don't care is, "I'm not surprised and I won't lose any sleep over it". If that line of thinking is unethical then I guess I'm unethical.It's sad, and it would be better if it didn't happen, and it would be ideal if everyone had good morals. But, unfortunately, it happend and there will be immoral people./rant

[GrinderMJ 0]

I'm pretty sure they do a cursory investigation of all players at the FT. I would hope that Stars looks at his account very closely given this new info. It's very unlikely he won the Stars Mill by himself. That would be like me winning. While possible, not very likely. The poker world is smaller than you think.

GWC: If i was a wagering man, I'd assume that Durrr/some other v. good player simply coached him from 27 down or w/e. I doubt he actually gave up control of the account, likely just played every hand as they told him to. Not trying to get into the ethical considerations since that's technically legal on stars and I've done it as well, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

[TB17 0]

pocketfives thread has so much more drama =/

[longshottwelve 0]

UmmmmmmmHate you call you out there, broham...But when I said a mix of TOOL and Pippy, I was TALKING ABOUT CLAYMATION.Have you never seen a TOOL VIDEO?

I agree with tool. Just not pippy. Nothing says faux-cynic like post-apocalyptic inspired claymation reindeer carcasses.

[vbnautilus 48]

IDK, to me it's like taking a test and you use cheat sheets when playing. You say that the info is available to everyone and these tools are just a way of keeping track. Then shouldn't I be able to have a choice or whatever in blocking my info to these said programs?

If you sit at a publicly viewable poker table how could you expect to prevent me from noticing that you raise 50% of the time, whether its with my eyes or a piece of software that counts for me? I can count on my fingers, I can write it down, I can enter it into an excel spreadsheet... or pokertracker can count for me, what's the difference?FWIW, PokerStars does not allow a player to collect info from a table at which he is not seated, and they do not allow you to use a program that provides information that others have collected. For example, if a program links to some central database that contains info on hundreds of players I have never seen, I can't use that information. I can only use the information I have personally witnessed.

[Acid_Knight 2]

IDK, to me it's like taking a test and you use cheat sheets when playing. You say that the info is available to everyone and these tools are just a way of keeping track. Then shouldn't I be able to have a choice or whatever in blocking my info to these said programs?

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, easiest point ever to make! It's a test where the teacher allows you to have a cheat sheet with certain info (since sites do specify certain programs as illegal) on it if you like. Sooooooooo, you come to the test and you choose not to bring the sheet. It's your choice. It makes your test harder, but that's because you chose not to bring your cheat sheet. Since the cheat sheet is allowed, it's just another tool that you have to make your test a little smoother to take.As for you blocking your info, I don't see your point. If I were sitting there, I could record every pot you entered. I could count how many times you raised and save the HHs where you went to showdown. It's not like the programs see something that you can't already.I really think you're gonna be hugely in the minority here.

[vbnautilus 48]

GWC: If i was a wagering man, I'd assume that Durrr/some other v. good player simply coached him from 27 down or w/e. I doubt he actually gave up control of the account, likely just played every hand as they told him to. Not trying to get into the ethical considerations since that's technically legal on stars and I've done it as well, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

Durrrr has said that he backed him in the million and that Chris played it himself. Whether he was coaching him/calling the shots who knows.

[Jeepster80125 0]

FYP

I used to be really naive and blind to reality, but I guess I woke up. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.Wait, seriously. This is funny. Here you are, the guy who got his girlfriend Phil Hellmuth energy drinks for your two year anniversary, and you are fixing people's posts to say this stuff?This is unintentional comedic GOLD jerry!Do you realize why your post is so full of hilarity?

[GWCGWC 83]

GWC: If i was a wagering man, I'd assume that Durrr/some other v. good player simply coached him from 27 down or w/e. I doubt he actually gave up control of the account, likely just played every hand as they told him to. Not trying to get into the ethical considerations since that's technically legal on stars and I've done it as well, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

Agreed, but I still expect Stars to look again. They're just that good.

[Jam-Fly 8]

If you sit at a publicly viewable poker table how could you expect to prevent me from noticing that you raise 50% of the time, whether its with my eyes or a piece of software that counts for me? I can count on my fingers, I can write it down, I can enter it into an excel spreadsheet... or pokertracker can count for me, what's the difference?FWIW, PokerStars does not allow a player to collect info from a table at which he is not seated, and they do not allow you to use a program that provides information that others have collected. For example, if a program links to some central database that contains info on hundreds of players I have never seen, I can't use that information. I can only use the information I have personally witnessed.

If your playing 4 tables at a time and he is actually raising 42.3% of the time.I duno, I don't really have an opinion if PokerTracker is ethical/unethical. Personally, I don't use it (but that's more coz I'm too lazy to set it up and it slows my comp down too much).But, I can see why people would think it is unethical. It is a computer programme that should increase your EV. It is not a human skill.How is it different from using a computer programme like Fritz or ChessBase when playing chess online? But hey, since it's allowed, and not against the rules, then it's totally okay to use, right?

[Gallo 1]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, easiest point ever to make! It's a test where the teacher allows you to have a cheat sheet with certain info (since sites do specify certain programs as illegal) on it if you like. Sooooooooo, you come to the test and you choose not to bring the sheet. It's your choice. It makes your test harder, but that's because you chose not to bring your cheat sheet. Since the cheat sheet is allowed, it's just another tool that you have to make your test a little smoother to take.As for you blocking your info, I don't see your point. If I were sitting there, I could record every pot you entered. I could count how many times you raised and save the HHs where you went to showdown. It's not like the programs see something that you can't already.I really think you're gonna be hugely in the minority here.

Ok, I was under the impression that the programs allowed you to collect/have data about other players even if you never played against them.Carry on.

[Gallo 1]

If your playing 4 tables at a time and he is actually raising 42.3% of the time.I duno, I don't really have an opinion if PokerTracker is ethical/unethical. Personally, I don't use it (but that's more coz I'm too lazy to set it up and it slows my comp down too much).But, I can see why people would think it is unethical. It is a computer programme that should increase your EV. It is not a human skill.How is it different from using a computer programme like Fritz or ChessBase when playing chess online? But hey, since it's allowed, and not against the rules, then it's totally okay to use, right?

This point is better than mine.

[vbnautilus 48]

This point is better than mine.

Agree. :)But this is where Acid Knight's point comes into play, that since everyone has access to it there is no unfair advantage. Which would be an even stronger point if the software were free.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Agree. But this is where Acid Knight's point comes into play, that since everyone has access to it there is no unfair advantage. Which would be an even stronger point if the software were free.

Meh, I know what your saying, but that's like the orginal point saying that just because everyone else cheats, it is still wrong to cheat. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Just coz 'everyone is doing it' doesn't make it right.

[vbnautilus 48]

Meh, I know what your saying, but that's like the orginal point saying that just because everyone else cheats, it is still wrong to cheat. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Just coz 'everyone is doing it' doesn't make it right.

That's kind of a funny parallel. It's not really the same kind of argument though. I'm not saying its right because everyone is doing it. I'm saying its not guilty of creating an unlevel playing field. If you think it's wrong for some reason other than creating an unfair advantage for those who use it, OK.

[Spademan 94]

I agree with tool. Just not pippy. Nothing says faux-cynic like post-apocalyptic inspired claymation reindeer carcasses.

Hey, you're the director, it's your world.Let's get crackin'.

[NoSup4U 0]

Right! I was thinking he made the FT at Foxwoods WPT but it was the one in Canada. My bad.

That was fricking Durrrr who just turned 21 at that FT omg.Mark

[Sheiky 0]

GWC: If i was a wagering man, I'd assume that Durrr/some other v. good player simply coached him from 27 down or w/e. I doubt he actually gave up control of the account, likely just played every hand as they told him to. Not trying to get into the ethical considerations since that's technically legal on stars and I've done it as well, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

Durr in the 2+2 thread:I backed him in his stars win, i was not at all affiliated w/ the ftp tourny, i know he was backed for it but im not sure if he let someone takeover or w/e and its not my business. The post about Mizzi taking over someones account in a sattelite is pretty gross but it's the own guy's fault for not reporting him in the first place and i suspect he's been involved in it a lot himself if he isn't reporting after losing 17k.

[hblask 1]

The post about Mizzi taking over someones account in a sattelite is pretty gross but it's the own guy's fault for not reporting him in the first place and i suspect he's been involved in it a lot himself if he isn't reporting after losing 17k.

I wonder if there is anyone I like enough that I would NOT turn them in if they cheated me out of 17K?

[vbnautilus 48]

Durr in the 2+2 thread:I backed him in his stars win, i was not at all affiliated w/ the ftp tourny, i know he was backed for it but im not sure if he let someone takeover or w/e and its not my business. The post about Mizzi taking over someones account in a sattelite is pretty gross but it's the own guy's fault for not reporting him in the first place and i suspect he's been involved in it a lot himself if he isn't reporting after losing 17k.

The satellite issue is different since imp wasn't in that tourney himself -- it was a grey area. Back when this happened the rules about taking over for someone else were not explicit. He did post about it when it happened and after consulting with people decided not to keep pressing it. I don't think you can conclude he was cheating himself because of that.

[BigLebowski 0]

The satellite issue is different since imp wasn't in that tourney himself -- it was a grey area. Back when this happened the rules about taking over for someone else were not explicit. He did post about it when it happened and after consulting with people decided not to keep pressing it. I don't think you can conclude he was cheating himself because of that.

I disagree. What's to stop Sorel or anyone else from not even having any personal accounts and just sweating the big tournies and buying someone out at the end? Would you be OK with this? What if there were 20 of the top online players doing this?At best, I would have broke Sorel's legs if he did that to me and rubbed it in my face. At worst, I would have made sure he couldn't ever use a mouse again.