Play Pocket Jacks With Me

[jsull 0]

OK, so I'm out now of the turning stone 200+30 Deep Stack tournament. Fuddled through Making minimal amounts with decent hands.100/200/25 level. I have about 10.5k in chips (started with 10K). UTG Raised for the fourth time in a row (and announced that) to 650 (he has about 15k). EP makes it 2k to go (he has about 16k). I am in MP with JJ. I ask what the reraise is to give an "o rly?" and call. Folds behind me back to UTG who just calls.I was apparently pegged as an uber tight player (possibly because of an earlier hand where i won with Tens full of aces on an A8TA5 board after I was raised on the river, and only called. When I had shown aggression, people backed off. As I said, UTG raised for the 4th time in a row after folding for about one orbit. EP had won a very big pot a few hands ago vs AQ on a 69Q board with pocket sixes. He has played very standard, and won and lost some pots, and called me earlier on a rivered flush of mine where he showed no aggression.So the flop comes T 6 4 with two clubs. It checks to me and the pot is 6550:What would you do in this situation???? I bet out 3k. I have an overpair to the board. In most situations this is a strong hand.UTG folds, and EP raises all in. EP shoved all in earlier when he hit the 6s. He also shoved earlier on a 99477 board and was not called.I have about 5.5k left behind. There is now 12.5k in the pot.What do you do here???????Can I give the guy credit for a real reraising hand (AA,KK,QQ) because of the UTG raise? I am way too far behind those hands. Do I put him on AK? TT? Maybe even the other two jacks? AK of clubs sounds likely for a check raise here....I am behind pretty much everything in his range except AK of clubs, and even that I'm a coinflip at this point. Do I give up my overpair? Blinds go up in about 5 minutes to 150/300. These are the spots where if I make the correct decision, I start to bring my game to the next level. This is the second hand this week where i feel I totally misplayed it.Thoughts? Comments?

[DCJ001 0]

These are the spots where if I make the correct decision, I start to bring my game to the next level. This is the second hand this week where i feel I totally misplayed it.Thoughts? Comments?

And the first hand that you misplayed was when you won with Tens full of aces on an A8TA5 board after you were raised on the river, and only called?

[simo_8ball 1]

Muck preflop. You said the reraiser had played standard. That standard range has you in bad shape for 20% of your stack. Also, I think UTG's comment signals a big hand usually so you might get frozen out there by a reraise.Flop bet is good.Fold to the shove. You're at best flipping against overs+flush draw or you're crushed against an overpair or a set.If he's gone mad with AKo or something then he's bluffed you, but I think that's uncommon.

[vbnautilus 49]

If he's gone mad with AKo or something then he's bluffed you, but I think that's uncommon.

How would you know, you don't even play poker! :)I agree with folding pf. You're facing a raise and reraise -- the best you can hope for from the reraiser is AK. I also think the UTG guy's comment means he wants everyone to think he's making a loose raise, when he is not. After the flop bet I think the only hand you are beating is maybe AT or 2 club overs, and you are behind 5 or 6 other hands that beat you. Fold, you can still work with 5.5K.

[jsull 0]

And the first hand that you misplayed was when you won with Tens full of aces on an A8TA5 board after you were raised on the river, and only called?

Make that third hand then. The guy really had me convinced he had A5.I took the announcement as a reverse tell. He's telling us that because he knows we already know this is the fourth hand in a row he's raised. He knows that we know that he knows... etc etc etc.. To me this was him showing strength, I guess I just took that as him being weak.So in this situation, Mucking the Jacks preflop makes sense?We're playing them "set it or forget it" and for 2k, there's no sense to even see the flop?EDIT: I've forgotten how much I missed this forum. I need to spend more time here. Thank you guys.

[gobears 0]

After the EP shove, there is 10,500+5,000+2,000+550 = 18K/5.5K so you're getting 3.3-1 on the call. If he has you pegged as an uber-tight player, then the % of time he bluffs goes up. You have also seen him shove with a set before, so he knows this. I'd have to call here.Once you call off 20% of your stack pre and get a flop like that with the information that you have on villain plus the info he has on you, I wouldn't lay it down here.However, folding preflop gets you away from this tough decision - once the 2nd player raises, I'm out of the hand.

[dtblizz 0]

After the EP shove, there is 10,500+5,000+2,000+550 = 18K/5.5K so you're getting 3.3-1 on the call. If he has you pegged as an uber-tight player, then the % of time he bluffs goes up. You have also seen him shove with a set before, so he knows this. I'd have to call here.Once you call off 20% of your stack pre and get a flop like that with the information that you have on villain plus the info he has on you, I wouldn't lay it down here.However, folding preflop gets you away from this tough decision - once the 2nd player raises, I'm out of the hand.

I agree with with GoBears here. They think you are a player that can lay a big hand down. Otherwise his play doesn't make sense to me. If he pegs you as uber tight and someone that can lay down a hand to a reraise then why is he check-raising? Very weird line by villain. I think 99 and x10 (most likely A10) enter his range, as weird as that sounds, as well as any 2 clubs. Playing clubs like this makes sense if he thinks he still has fold equity. Also, by checking preflop and letting you bet he gets to see if the original raiser is going to play or fold...once the raiser folds he can push you out of the hand, hit his draw, or bust.Fold preflop

[Jam-Fly 8]

Ok, I think folding pre flop is actually okay. JJ is so pretty, it's tough to fold, but I think it's +EV to just muck it here, you save yourself from so many ugly situations. As played, I think I bet 4k on flop. EP is supposed to be standard, so if he has QQ, KK, AA, he should c-bet. If he is making a nice check-raise with QQ-AA, then I guess he outplayed us. Right now, I am putting EP on AK or AQ. If he has QQ-AA, and the flop comes like this, and he has the intuition/guts/skill to check, in a 3 handed pot (even after reraising preflop) then he is a very sneaky, good player. I can't see how we don't go broke with our jacks here is he has QQ-AA. We could check, but that's too wimpy. Most of the time our jacks are good here and a bet will win the pot. You could check, hope a small card comes, and hope to check to river. But m'eh, I hate doing that. If UTG ch-raises, things could get a little hairy. UTG is capable of having TT, 66 or 44. Maybe QQ. KK or AA is unlikely. But still, I'm a donkey and I think I'm getting broke if they have JJ beat.JJ is a strong hand on a T64 board, and after putting in so much of my stack, I find it sickening to fold with 1/3 of my stack left. It's not totally unreasonable for them to have 77-99, AQs, AKs or AT here. I duno, in theory, I think the technically right play is to fold. But I just keep looking at it, your getting over 3-1 on the call (550(antes), 2k+2k+2k (pf action), +3k(your raise), +3k(EP call), +5.5k(EP re.r)=~18k and its costing 5.5k to call. You got JJ. I don't think EP is good enough to make this play with QQ-AA that often. How often are you betting into this flop? Rarely. So how can EP be good enough to know, that he can check into one person, and know that that one person will bet. QQ-AA is very vulnerable right now, and it's too risky to give a free card. The only way he can check is if he's sure that you'll bet. And I just can't give him credit for that. The only way he can know you'll bet is if you are an inexperienced live player, and gave away some physical tells showing that you'd bet if checked to, this is the only way he can check to you with with QQ-AA. He doesn't have QQ-AA, and if he does, fair play to him, he made a great play and deserves our chips. The only other hands that beat us here are TT, 66, 44. He's not reraising pf with 44. Probably not reraising with 66 either. TT is relly possible, but right now, TT is the only hand I can put him on. I think getting 3.5-1 should be sufficent odds.Let's seeNeed like 23% for call to be profitableTT: 25%x8%=2%AA-QQ: 10%x8%=0.8%AT: 15%x80%=12%77,88,99: 20%x90%=18%AK/AQcc: 25%x50%=12.5%Bluff: 5%x80%=4%Your getting almost 50% from those values above, so I have to call here. Price is too good.I callSorry for the back and fourth post, I was litreally thinking as I was writing, so that's basically my thought process. Price too good, hand too good, too unlikely villain is that good of a player, I call.

[quadaces 0]

So what happened?

[jsull 0]

I make the call, EP says "Your Aces are good sir" before I can even table my jacks. I grumble, curse, and leave and the rest of the board offers me no help to his KK. After thinking about this more and more, this player would not have reraised without AA or KK there. But, I remember him from another tourney up there and in that tourney he played very loose, limping in EP with not so great cards, and twice doubling me up with my short stack at that tourney.But what am I really ahead of? 8s 9s and AK or AQ of clubs. Nothing else plays this flop. I don't think he re-raises with 8s even to isolate. Thanks for the suggestions, hopefully I can take this knowledge and do something with it for next time.Actually, I did follow this advice after the same situation happened in an online 4.40, where there was a standard raise and a shove... pretty early, so I dumped the jacks and they were against AK and AA....so I got a positive result from dumping it so hopefully, it will stick with me.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Wow, so UTG checked, and after reraising pre flop, this guy checked to you on that board?I'd honestly have a look to see if you have some tells coz his check there is superb.