Something That Has Been On My Mind

[digitalmonkey 929]

Exactly, but he won't accept that. He won't accept that there is no right answer.

And this is why he is ignorant.

[Loismustdie 0]

And this is why he is ignorant.

Hey, DM!! Good to see you are still not really discussing anything!! Thank God/not God for guys like Kiser, and Yorke, and Shake and Jon who actually discuss issues, otherwise it would just be a room full of you. God/not God forbid that ever happen.

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[Loismustdie 0]

There's a big difference between erring on the side of caution and be completely over-protective.Also, to realistically claim that you care for each and every fetus that has ever been destroyed is dishonest. I don't know anyone (even pro-lifers) who care about a random fetus ON THE SAME LEVEL as they do a real random human life.All the way to conception is complete overkill to on the "side of caution". And arguing that 'well, a baby isn't a car' is completely missing the point. LLY isn't relating a baby to a car... he's relating creation to creation. The few week old fetus is the part of the creation relative to a few steel bars melded together. You're not destroying a car or killing human life at that point.

Even Yorke notates that you must take away the idea of a soul (humanity) to make his case palatable. I do care about every singles fetus that has ever been destroyed, I think it's a travesty. That being said, that soul is in a better place. I can say that in all honesty, with no hesitation. Remember, my thing from the start of this thread is that I didn't like the dishonesty of pretending that we aren't really doing anything by terminating a pregnancy, I think that if you walk into an abortion clinic they should tell you, "Look, your killing your baby. Now, do as you will." The facts AS BEST WE CAN TELL should be offered. As far as it being overkill, why? To appease a mothers or fathers mind, make them feel less guilt? Offer more of a time cushion?There really is no other reason that I can see that we wouldn't start from that point.

[Loismustdie 0]

I me

You have no idea how much I have wanted to start a dummy account named "Randomdeadfetus" but that would be just WROOOONG. Sick sense of humor, I know.

[strategy 4]

summarizing because I am too lazy to go find a quote. LMD said that he believes life starts at conception because the only known result of that is a baby. life (according to your definition) is snuffed out quite regularly in some women... as a natural process.not that I think this will have much of an influence on this discussion. I just wondered why no one had brought up the concept of autoimmune miscarriage.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

yeah, there's really know "right" answer, because its all scientific stuff

I just thought that was funny.

Imagine that we're in an auto factory. We have a long assembly line of robots. We put a clump of metal on one end and press a button. A few hours later, a car spits out the other end. The question is, "When does the metal become a car?" If we remove the concept of a soul from the conversation, I think that my silly analogy actually is pretty apt.If we press the "on" button and quickly turn it "off," have we destroyed a car? If we were to leave things as they were (and ensure that the factory gets the necessary power and such) then certainly a car would spit out the other end. This is true. However, this doesn't mean that we've destroyed a car. In fact, we could simply move the metal back to the beginning after it moved an inch or so and press "on" again and we would have another car to be.

This doesn't feel right to me. Let's say the very first step in making a car is to take a piece of metal and bend it a certain way. You press the "on" button, the metal gets bent, then you press "off" and move it back to the start. Now you hit "on" again and the machine goes to bend that piece of metal, but can't find it because it's already been bent and then the machine doesn't know what to do and begins to question its own existence. You can say that you can just skip that step and go to step two, but that's not really like a baby anymore, is it? I mean, let's say you get pregnant and then have an abortion before the brain or heart functions or whatever. The next time you get pregnant you don't get to skip the steps that happened before the abortion. You start all over. Yes? No?

[ShakeZuma 585]

Just sort of reiterating what Shake just said, if we are erring on the side of caution, why choose any other spot than conception? It seems to me that caution dictates, well, just that. Also, I love your car analogy BUT, and this is a big but, and not the type Shake likes, you prefaced that analogy with "if you take the soul out of the equation" and that cannot be done,at least by me. Replace soul with the word "humanity" and it can't be done. The only way it could be done is to look at it as an inanimate object, like a car.That's not what it is- people pay thousands of dollars just to have a SHOT at this particular inanimate object, just a chance, you know? I suppose you may pay alot of money to be put into a lottery for like a one off Bentley, but for the most part, no. I keep coming back to this, I guess because it just seems important, but look at what a woman is payed for her eggs IF she wants to go ahead and sell some. What's the going rate now? 15,000? 20,000? I guess I could answer one of those adds and pretend to be a chick, but I am too lazy, plus I have a migraine right now.Point is, this is a precious, precious resource that even the free market realizes, "Yeah, that's worth something."

ha HA!

Even Yorke notates that you must take away the idea of a soul (humanity) to make his case palatable. I do care about every singles fetus that has ever been destroyed, I think it's a travesty. That being said, that soul is in a better place. I can say that in all honesty, with no hesitation. Remember, my thing from the start of this thread is that I didn't like the dishonesty of pretending that we aren't really doing anything by terminating a pregnancy, I think that if you walk into an abortion clinic they should tell you, "Look, your killing your baby. Now, do as you will." The facts AS BEST WE CAN TELL should be offered. As far as it being overkill, why? To appease a mothers or fathers mind, make them feel less guilt? Offer more of a time cushion?There really is no other reason that I can see that we wouldn't start from that point.

so do you think that a human gets its soul as soon as the egg is fertilized? I'm sure you've probably said that before but I don't remember. either way, that part doesn't really come into my argument at all since I don't really believe in a soul. my whole "life is sacred" thing stems from the fact that I don't believe in a soul or heaven or anything like that, so I think its even more important to treat life with the utmost care since its all we've got.also, touching on the whole guilt thing, what I usually come back to, when its all said and done, on the issue of abortion is what I would feel like if I got a girl pregnant (I'm probably sterile since I haven't already, but thats another topic) and she had an abortion. hell, even if it was one week in (even though I don't think you can tell you're pregnant one week in, can you?) I would be pissed and probably wonder my whole life what would have happened if she hadn't. however, I wouldn't feel very bad at all if she took the morning after pill. hmm. maybe the difference here is in that when taking the pill, you don't really know if you're pregnant or not, but with an abortion, you KNOW that its a baby.

You have no idea how much I have wanted to start a dummy account named "Randomdeadfetus" but that would be just WROOOONG. Sick sense of humor, I know.

no, that would be awesome. so very awesome.

summarizing because I am too lazy to go find a quote. LMD said that he believes life starts at conception because the only known result of that is a baby. life (according to your definition) is snuffed out quite regularly in some women... as a natural process.not that I think this will have much of an influence on this discussion. I just wondered why no one had brought up the concept of autoimmune miscarriage.

actually I kinda touched on it a little in my post above, talking about stillbirths, miscarriages, and whatnot. those aren't abortions because there wasn't a conscious decision by the mother to end the pregnancy. sure, it sucks, but its a natural part of pregnancy and birth present in the entire animal kingdom. on this same subtopic, even though I do think life technically begins at conception, I've always found it weird when people have funerals for babies that were miscarried or stillborn. I mean, does anybody else find this a little odd if not a little creepy?

[Ouch-8s 4]

This doesn't feel right to me. Let's say the very first step in making a car is to take a piece of metal and bend it a certain way. You press the "on" button, the metal gets bent, then you press "off" and move it back to the start. Now you hit "on" again and the machine goes to bend that piece of metal, but can't find it because it's already been bent and then the machine doesn't know what to do and begins to question its own existence. You can say that you can just skip that step and go to step two, but that's not really like a baby anymore, is it? I mean, let's say you get pregnant and then have an abortion before the brain or heart functions or whatever. The next time you get pregnant you don't get to skip the steps that happened before the abortion. You start all over. Yes? No?

this isn't funny. I'm confused. who are you and what have you done with JJJ?

[strategy 4]

this isn't funny. I'm confused. who are you and what have you done with JJJ?

actually, it is funny, because he's adding more confusion to a topic already overly confused by stuff like the fairy tale notion of a soul.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I'd also like to mention (as I think I have before) that I am an athiest, pro life guy. I'm an odd cat.

FYP I think.

[ShakeZuma 585]

FYP I think.

nope, I had it right the first time.read the last sentence again.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I see Rev. Jones still has an audience. Careful, he'll be serving Kool Aid shortly.

[Loismustdie 0]

I see Rev. Jones still has an audience. Careful, he'll be serving Kool Aid shortly.

Do they have a common sense flavor? I had no idea.

[Loismustdie 0]

actually, it is funny, because he's adding more confusion to a topic already overly confused by stuff like the fairy tale notion of a soul.

Replace the word "soul" in that conversation with "human aspect" and you have the same effect.

[Loismustdie 0]

ha HA!so do you think that a human gets its soul as soon as the egg is fertilized? I'm sure you've probably said that before but I don't remember. either way, that part doesn't really come into my argument at all since I don't really believe in a soul. my whole "life is sacred" thing stems from the fact that I don't believe in a soul or heaven or anything like that, so I think its even more important to treat life with the utmost care since its all we've got.also, touching on the whole guilt thing, what I usually come back to, when its all said and done, on the issue of abortion is what I would feel like if I got a girl pregnant (I'm probably sterile since I haven't already, but thats another topic) and she had an abortion. hell, even if it was one week in (even though I don't think you can tell you're pregnant one week in, can you?) I would be pissed and probably wonder my whole life what would have happened if she hadn't. however, I wouldn't feel very bad at all if she took the morning after pill. hmm. maybe the difference here is in that when taking the pill, you don't really know if you're pregnant or not, but with an abortion, you KNOW that its a baby.no, that would be awesome. so very awesome.actually I kinda touched on it a little in my post above, talking about stillbirths, miscarriages, and whatnot. those aren't abortions because there wasn't a conscious decision by the mother to end the pregnancy. sure, it sucks, but its a natural part of pregnancy and birth present in the entire animal kingdom. on this same subtopic, even though I do think life technically begins at conception, I've always found it weird when people have funerals for babies that were miscarried or stillborn. I mean, does anybody else find this a little odd if not a little creepy?

I know a guys who still visits his stillborn babies grave once a year. It's been over twenty years. He has had 4 other kids grow up and leave the house. He has had a happy family, for the most part. That being said, that girl was still very real to him, the hopes, dreams, ideas associated with her,etc. find it uplifting that a man can love that much. I am not sure that there was actual funeral, though, and I will never ask him.

[SuperJon 175]

I know a guys who still visits his stillborn babies grave once a year. It's been over twenty years. He has had 4 other kids grow up and leave the house. He has had a happy family, for the most part. That being said, that girl was still very real to him, the hopes, dreams, ideas associated with her,etc. find it uplifting that a man can love that much. I am not sure that there was actual funeral, though, and I will never ask him.

Give me his number.I'll ask him.sw, obv.yeah, that sucks.

[strategy 4]

Replace the word "soul" in that conversation with "human aspect" and you have the same effect.

yeah, still fairy tale. I think we've lost most of what makes us human these days.

[Loismustdie 0]

yeah, still fairy tale. I think we've lost most of what makes us human these days.

So continue down that path... how defeatist of you. I tend to agree with you- why else should this even be a conversation?

[strategy 4]

So continue down that path... how defeatist of you. I tend to agree with you- why else should this even be a conversation?

I'm just a big goofball, you see.

[Loismustdie 0]

I'm just a big goofball, you see.

Lol. If that's you in the pic, I do see.

[Ouch-8s 4]

Lol. If that's you in the pic, I do see.

he wishes

[renaedawn 1]

I once saw a billboard, and who knows to what extent it was true, but it said 1/3 of babies are aborted. hell, even if its only 1/8, could you imagine how many more people we would have running around here? the mexicans would be the least of our worries. or maybe still the most, but there'd sure be a lot more of them.

I just came in here to kill a few minutes before leaving work and I couldn't resist responding to this one.HotAndrew, that is so righteously freaking hilarious that I now want to procreate with you and then abort your babies.