Lebron James

[Jadaki 0]

Go watch one of those old games and see the type of defense they play. If there was a no hand check rule back then it wouldn't have mattered because nobody did that anyway. Do you really think it's easier to score now then it was then?

Teams did it. Isiah/Dumars Piston lead teams are a perfect example.

[Jadaki 0]

If you think I'm exaggerating let me know the last time you've seen 2 different players average 30ppg and 8apg in a season. It just doesn't happen.

Neither of them are at 30/8, close but not quite.They are both having great seasons, as well as Paul and Howard and to a lesser extent Kobe because he doesn't have to put up huge numbers to win anymore. Comparing era's is difficult and pretty much impossible, so all you can compare Lebron to right now fairly is the people he is playing against. And he really isn't ahead of the other top players in the league, they are all really close.

[chgocubs99 0]

Neither of them are at 30/8, close but not quite.They are both having great seasons, as well as Paul and Howard and to a lesser extent Kobe because he doesn't have to put up huge numbers to win anymore. Comparing era's is difficult and pretty much impossible, so all you can compare Lebron to right now fairly is the people he is playing against. And he really isn't ahead of the other top players in the league, they are all really close.

Agree with all this

[CindyLou 11]

Teams did it. Isiah/Dumars Piston lead teams are a perfect example.

I thought we were talking about the days of Oscar Robertson.

[CaneBrain 95]

wow, I always thought Wade was a better shooter from long range. Shooting under 30% is pretty terrible...I think even Bosh has a higher 3pt%.

He is not a good three pt shooter. Amazingly, 28% is a huge improvement-----early in his career he did not even bother to take 3s. He seems to hit them in big spots though.He does not take that many threes....though he should probably take even fewer than he does already.Nobody's perfect.also, anyone who thinks the east has 1 or 2 good teams must have missed Orlando decimate the West earlier this year.

[Jadaki 0]

I thought we were talking about the days of Oscar Robertson.

I thought we were just talking about before they took away the hand check rule. The Pistons are one of the teams that made them get rid of it. Defense wasn't ignored, there is a reason Russel has more rings than Wilt.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Way off

Really? Might want to check and see how many teams in the East would make the playoffs in the West. That would be 3.

I want to kick this thread in the balls, but instead I'll just answer this one point.Why have there been rule changes to make it easier?Because team defenses have become much, much better. Go watch one of those old games and see the type of defense they play. If there was a no hand check rule back then it wouldn't have mattered because nobody did that anyway. Do you really think it's easier to score now then it was then?

That's a point I've been trying to make in this forum many times. Trying to use the old arguments they've made in the past against them trick.And I agree with the bolded.

[Jadaki 0]

Really? Might want to check and see how many teams in the East would make the playoffs in the West. That would be 3.

Yea, but 2-9 in the west is a big cluster****. Some of those teams that are a piece away in the east could be lumped in there too.

[keith crime 8]

I thought we were just talking about before they took away the hand check rule. The Pistons are one of the teams that made them get rid of it. Defense wasn't ignored, there is a reason Russel has more rings than Wilt.

uh yeah and it's the other 8 hall of famers he always played with not defensetrade russell for wilt and the celtics still win every year

[Jadaki 0]

uh yeah and it's the other 8 hall of famers he always played with not defensetrade russell for wilt and the celtics still win every year

Yea, it wasn't because he made them any better. Your right, Russel was a product of a system...

[keith crime 8]

Yea, it wasn't because he made them any better. Your right, Russel was a product of a system...

No he had a team where every one of his teammates was better than every single once of Wilt's position for position every single yearwhen that's the case if you are Russell and you are 85% the player wilt is - your team will still win every yearhis teammates didn't need to be made better they were eons better than wilt's already

[CaneBrain 95]

Really? Might want to check and see how many teams in the East would make the playoffs in the West. That would be 3.

First, Atlanta would have a decent shot at the playoffs (especially if they traded conferences with one of the top 9 west teams.) Second, yes the West is deeper in terms of good to very good teams. But the East has 3 of the 4 best teams in the league. And the East has only one useless team (Wizards) whereas the West has 4 legit cupcakes.

[keith crime 8]

Heat-CavsHeat up nine in 4th - Dwayne Wade having a big nightBut who was there at the end Mr. J?

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

First, Atlanta would have a decent shot at the playoffs (especially if they traded conferences with one of the top 9 west teams.) Second, yes the West is deeper in terms of good to very good teams. But the East has 3 of the 4 best teams in the league. And the East has only one useless team (Wizards) whereas the West has 4 legit cupcakes.

By record. You're giving Orlando a lot of credit. They'd be underdogs in a series against teams like SA and Utah when healthy.

[CaneBrain 95]

By record. You're giving Orlando a lot of credit. They'd be underdogs in a series against teams like SA and Utah when healthy.

I'd stop giving them credit if they would stop beating everyone in the West. Their record against the West powers is absurdly good.....they swept the Lakers, yes? You are not giving them enough credit....it is one of the best shooting teams ever. They wont get by Boston and Cleveland though, so it is moot. (edit: Orlando is 19-7 against the West. thats a pretty good win pct. they have beat Dallas and New Orleans and LA at home. they have won at Portland, at Utah, at Spurs, at Denver, at Dallas, at Lakers. thats just a disgustingly good road resume. )Wade was amazing tonight (7 steals!) pumping in 40 again. Lebron was equally good and (as we already knew) his team is better. Miami blew (another) 4th quarter lead mostly because our coach insists on playing Haslem down the stretch. He missed two layups and a wide open jumper during a huge Cavs run and that cost Miami the game. It's time to unleash Beasley already; the heat need a 2nd scorer who can put the ball in the hole and take some heat off Wade. 6-25 on FGs in the 4th quarter is ridiculous.Lebron 6-7 from 3pt land? Nice night from the 32% guy. Not much you can do. A few of them were hand in the face bombs too.....thats gotta be horribly frustrating as a defender.

[keith crime 8]

Lebron 6-7 from 3pt land? Nice night from the 32% guy. Not much you can do. A few of them were hand in the face bombs too.....thats gotta be horribly frustrating as a defender.

this quote from last week again applies"You have a hand in his face and he's shooting the ball two steps behind the 3-point line," Bogans said. "I mean, what can you do about that?"

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

I'd stop giving them credit if they would stop beating everyone in the West. Their record against the West powers is absurdly good.....they swept the Lakers, yes? You are not giving them enough credit....it is one of the best shooting teams ever. They wont get by Boston and Cleveland though, so it is moot. (edit: Orlando is 19-7 against the West. thats a pretty good win pct. they have beat Dallas and New Orleans and LA at home. they have won at Portland, at Utah, at Spurs, at Denver, at Dallas, at Lakers. thats just a disgustingly good road resume. )Wade was amazing tonight (7 steals!) pumping in 40 again. Lebron was equally good and (as we already knew) his team is better. Miami blew (another) 4th quarter lead mostly because our coach insists on playing Haslem down the stretch. He missed two layups and a wide open jumper during a huge Cavs run and that cost Miami the game. It's time to unleash Beasley already; the heat need a 2nd scorer who can put the ball in the hole and take some heat off Wade. 6-25 on FGs in the 4th quarter is ridiculous.Lebron 6-7 from 3pt land? Nice night from the 32% guy. Not much you can do. A few of them were hand in the face bombs too.....thats gotta be horribly frustrating as a defender.

That's good for them, they're not a playoff team until they prove they're a playoff team. If they get the wrong matchup I could see them going down in the first round again.

[CaneBrain 95]

That's good for them, they're not a playoff team until they prove they're a playoff team. If they get the wrong matchup I could see them going down in the first round again.

alright if you want to disregard everything they have done this year I am probably not going to convince you.who in the East who might be the 6 seed do you see as being a bad matchup for Orlando? I am curious. Philly and Chicago cant hang with them. Detroit maybe, Miami maybe. Even as a Heat fan I dont see Miami pulling an upset. I could see them taking Orlando to 7 games I guess.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

alright if you want to disregard everything they have done this year I am probably not going to convince you.who in the East who might be the 6 seed do you see as being a bad matchup for Orlando? I am curious. Philly and Chicago cant hang with them. Detroit maybe, Miami maybe. Even as a Heat fan I dont see Miami pulling an upset. I could see them taking Orlando to 7 games I guess.

I haven't looked at the East standings really all year until these discussions, and they're really disgusting btw. Ya I don't really think they're going to have any real trouble in that spot unless it's Detroit, and if I had a gun to my head I'd have to take the Pistons there.I don't disregard everything they've done, I just don't put much stock in regular seasons from teams that shoot far too many 3-pointers to win a playoff series against a good team. But that's the beauty of the NBA, you always find out who the best team is in a playoff series.

[Jadaki 0]

That was a fun game to watch last night.I also about pissed myself at a nearly fair comparison of Wade and Lebron on ESPN later in the night.

[CaneBrain 95]

That was a fun game to watch last night.I also about pissed myself at a nearly fair comparison of Wade and Lebron on ESPN later in the night.

I think people recognize they are both super-awesome but that the Cavs are the better team.When the Cavs started trapping Wade in the 4th, no one on the Heat stepped up. Jermaine O'Neal is a giant disappointment. Beasley is always glued to the bench during crunch-time (I can only assume he had sex with Spolestra's sister. It makes no sense. Haslem killed us last night with missed layups and jumpers). Jamario moon is a pleasant surprise so far. Otherwise, Wade's supporting cast is not ready. Yet. Chalmers and Beasley are getting there.

[Jadaki 0]

Jamario moon is a pleasant surprise so far. Otherwise, Wade's supporting cast is not ready. Yet. Chalmers and Beasley are getting there.

Moon is okay on offense, he plays matador defense though

[keith crime 8]

Wade is a warrior - if he starts hitting that three he'll be unstoppable

[fleung22 1]

Jamario moon is a pleasant surprise so far. Otherwise, Wade's supporting cast is not ready. Yet. Chalmers and Beasley are getting there.

I'm really not sure why Beasley hasn't been given more opportunity in Miami. Is his defense really THAT bad!?Moon will drive you crazy. He makes plenty of bad decision shots at the most crucial times and he's not that guy on most nights. Also, what doesn't show up on the stat sheet is the fact he bites on pump fakes SO badly. It's also the reason he gets so many blocks but he can't recover from his leap quickly enough. Players go right around him or draw fouls. IMO Beasley should have plenty in the tank since he hasn't played that much yet and the confidence from playing him more would more than make up for any deficiencies at this point. I guess you have to weigh the importance of the 4/5 seed and making it 1 more round in the playoffs vs. the chance Beasley adds enough to improve the team THAT much more in the next 5 weeks.

[fleung22 1]

Wade is a warrior - if he starts hitting that three he'll be unstoppable

yes, but I think you could say the same about Dwight Howard. fact is, until you have it you don't have it. there's a reason Kobe won MVP for the first time in his career.