Lebron James

[SuperJon 175]

I would be totally cool with college athletes getting paid a lump sum after leaving college for every year they were enrolled. Might be incentive for some kids to stay in school longer before trying to go pro. Could also be nice for the kids that realistically have no shot at going pro to leave college with some guaranteed money.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

I would be totally cool with college athletes getting paid a lump sum after leaving college for every year they were enrolled. Might be incentive for some kids to stay in school longer before trying to go pro

 

I am in favor of paying college athletes, considering the toll they put on their bodies (and time) and the money they make for their program. I am NOT in favor of anything that implies it's somehow wise for athletes to gamble their career and health on something that they would be able to do for a few grand later on, after the clock stops ticking on their multi-million dollar knees. It made me sick when the NBA starting holding these kids' lives hostage like this in the first place.

 

I am very in favor of college for the most part, but if I were a prospect coming out of HS, I would go play in Europe or something.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I would be totally cool with college athletes getting paid a lump sum after leaving college for every year they were enrolled. Might be incentive for some kids to stay in school longer before trying to go pro. Could also be nice for the kids that realistically have no shot at going pro to leave college with some guaranteed money.

 

Or we could, you know, pay them, like we do every other laborer that creates millions of dollars in revenue in this country.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

Or we could, you know, pay them, like we do every other laborer that creates millions of dollars in revenue in this country.

 

I had someone on FB explain it to me like this, McGee:

 

Their pay comes in the form of opportunity. Their pay is the money they will eventually get, if they do well and manage to not get injured or thrown off the team from trying to make a little money to keep their family's lights on or buy a pair of shoes. It works the same way as most industries. You don't get cut a check to work at McDonald's. Your pay is the money you get from Applebee's when they see how well you can work a grill.

[SuperJon 175]

Or we could, you know, pay them, like we do every other laborer that creates millions of dollars in revenue in this country.

 

Sure. I guess I'm just in the camp of people that think getting a "free ride" through college is a pretty damn good payment in itself.

 

I think that's the main reason kids play college sports, although in their minds, it's probably because they went to go pro and make millions. The reality is that the majority of them will never get drafted or signed, and will have to get a regular job. On the plus side, they'll likely get a higher paying job, and they won't be in debt for the next 10 years because their tuition was covered.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

yeah, i like to go into work all week and then get free books and boring lectures as payment.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

yeah, i like to go into work all week and then get free books and boring lectures as payment.

 

Especially when the street price of that knowledge is like roughly 0%-30% of what the sticker price is, so that your boss can tell people that you make $160K-200K/year if anyone questions your compensation.

[SuperJon 175]

I wouldn't mind if it meant

 

A. I'd be getting a free education at a quality school, and wouldn't be in debt for a couple hundred thousand dollars after I graduate.

B. I would have a chance at making millions provided I'm good enough to go pro.

C. All of the above.

 

By the way, I hope you fags don't think I'm against paying college athletes, because I'm not. I just don't think it's as black and white as, yes we should, or no we shouldn't. If the vote were a unanimous "yes", I think there's a lot more to consider. Things like how much to pay them, and what factors to consider when determining a payment amount. Should something like GPA matter? How about performance on the field/court?

[SuperJon 175]

Especially when the street price of that knowledge is like roughly 0%-30% of what the sticker price is, so that your boss can tell people that you make $160K-200K/year if anyone questions your compensation.

 

Agree. Education is definitely overpriced, but it is what it is, and getting it for free is a sweet deal.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

Sure. I guess I'm just in the camp of people that think getting a "free ride" through college is a pretty damn good payment in itself.

 

The thing is, a) those kids almost definitely don't want that free ride and would rather be paid like humans (the slaves got room and bored too, but weren't allowed to learn to read, so it's a step up), and b) that free ride is worth WAY less than what those players are worth. Trump up the numbers all you want, as other people always do when they make that argument, but realistically, only rich, lazy suckers pay all that much for money for college anyway. I'm putting my partner -- a mediocre student -- through school, and with minimal legwork, their expenses were less than what we were taking in random little grants and such. Maybe 45 minutes to an hour per semester of searching for scholarship sites is worth more than 4 years of have your head bashed in. And finally c) even if you value your education and want to be there, it's basically impossible to get anything out of it while playing anyway. People talk shit about how stupid these players are, and it's probably fair, but it doesn't even matter. These guys have a full-time job that involves traveling the country and having their head rattled like an aerosol can two nights before having to go back to class. Factor in the partying that basically 100% of college kids do, and you are not looking at a recipe for academic excellence, even if that's their intent.

 

I think that's the main reason kids play college sports, although in their minds, it's probably because they went to go pro and make millions. The reality is that the majority of them will never get drafted or signed, and will have to get a regular job. On the plus side, they'll likely get a higher paying job, and they won't be in debt for the next 10 years because their tuition was covered.

 

So you think that the solution to this is to scam these 18y/o men into vamping their way through a communications degree? If protecting kids whose dreams are too big (and not paying them for their work and bodily harm) is your solution, I actually have a way better plan: we can still force the less promising (i.e. white) players to go to school and get their degree. But then the promising ones can go to a professional, minor league, where they are paid, not forced to pretend to care about literature, and not menaced with the treat of their dreams being taken away because they don't have the time or skills or interest to be good at something 100% unrelated. I would LOVE to see the college system dissolved like this.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

Agree. Education is definitely overpriced, but it is what it is, and getting it for free is a sweet deal.

 

It's not free. It's extremely expensive. My partner is getting it for free, which is a good deal. Johnny Football is getting it in exchange for 70 hours a week, his knee cartilage and his short term memory.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Sure. I guess I'm just in the camp of people that think getting a "free ride" through college is a pretty damn good payment in itself.

 

I think that's the main reason kids play college sports, although in their minds, it's probably because they went to go pro and make millions. The reality is that the majority of them will never get drafted or signed, and will have to get a regular job. On the plus side, they'll likely get a higher paying job, and they won't be in debt for the next 10 years because their tuition was covered.

 

Okay, but you're making a basic error in the fact that a free ride through college is equally valuable to everyone who gets it. To you, whom likely excelled at college (or at least did adequately), you had the intelligence, educational background, life goals and support for succeeding at the college track. Not everyone is like this. Particularly people who perform at a high level in college football, who come from diverse educational, economic, familial backgrounds. To someone who comes from an inner city, who had a terrible inner city public education, who didn't value education in the first place, who comes from a single family whom no one in the family has been to college, college is not as valuable to them. They are not mentally prepared to succeed at it, and if not for their athletic talent, there is zero chance many, many college football players would go to college. And you might say "gosh, what a great opportunity" but what kind of opportunity is it for someone who has almost zero tools to be able to handle college and succeed at it?

 

 

What would be more valuable, for many of these players whom have to go through the charade of getting an education that they don't care about and don't have the ability to get anything out of, instead of schools pretending they are students and cheating and managing them through school, why don't you instead give them something that they CAN use, that does have value to them. Money.

[NickCave 194]

If college were totally optional, I'd probably be okay with players being compensated via guaranteed 4yr scholarships, and a small stipend to cover food/beer. As it is, college is effectively mandatory for playing professional football. Basketball players have options (Europe. D-League?), but they aren't great. Suggesting the compensation for Johnny Manziel is fair is ludicrous. It's artificially capped, and he has zero other feasible options.

[SuperJon 175]

So you think that the solution to this is to scam these 18y/o men into vamping their way through a communications degree? If protecting kids whose dreams are too big (and not paying them for their work and bodily harm) is your solution, I actually have a way better plan: we can still force the less promising (i.e. white) players to go to school and get their degree. But then the promising ones can go to a professional, minor league, where they are paid, not forced to pretend to care about literature, and not menaced with the treat of their dreams being taken away because they don't have the time or skills or interest to be good at something 100% unrelated. I would LOVE to see the college system dissolved like this.

 

I could get on board with something like that. My only suggestion would be to at least give those players some sort of education, at least in the form of tutoring. I guess that's my biggest concern for these young kids. The average professional career isn't that long even without injury, and life is going to be tough outside of sports if they have nothing to fall back on.

 

It's not free. It's extremely expensive. My partner is getting it for free, which is a good deal. Johnny Football is getting it in exchange for 70 hours a week, his knee cartilage and his short term memory.

 

Johnny Football will also most likely make more money than all of his classmates.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

If college were totally optional, I'd probably be okay with players being compensated via guaranteed 4yr scholarships, and a small stipend to cover food/beer. As it is, college is effectively mandatory for playing professional football. Basketball players have options (Europe. D-League?), but they aren't great. Suggesting the compensation for Johnny Manziel is fair is ludicrous. It's artificially capped, and he has zero other feasible options.

 

Is Europe that bad of an option for basketball players? (My only reason for thinking it might not be is that people seem to get drafted fairly high from over there fairly often.)

[SuperJon 175]

Okay, but you're making a basic error in the fact that a free ride through college is equally valuable to everyone who gets it. To you, whom likely excelled at college (or at least did adequately), you had the intelligence, educational background, life goals and support for succeeding at the college track. Not everyone is like this. Particularly people who perform at a high level in college football, who come from diverse educational, economic, familial backgrounds. To someone who comes from an inner city, who had a terrible inner city public education, who didn't value education in the first place, who comes from a single family whom no one in the family has been to college, college is not as valuable to them. They are not mentally prepared to succeed at it, and if not for their athletic talent, there is zero chance many, many college football players would go to college. And you might say "gosh, what a great opportunity" but what kind of opportunity is it for someone who has almost zero tools to be able to handle college and succeed at it?

 

 

What would be more valuable, for many of these players whom have to go through the charade of getting an education that they don't care about and don't have the ability to get anything out of, instead of schools pretending they are students and cheating and managing them through school, why don't you instead give them something that they CAN use, that does have value to them. Money.

 

I never actually finished college, but I'm glad I at least come across as somewhat educated enough for you to think I did.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=4737281 I'm pretty sure Griffin would have preferred cash

[NickCave 194]

 

 

Is Europe that bad of an option for basketball players? (My only reason for thinking it might not be is that people seem to get drafted fairly high from over there fairly often.)

 

If you're seventeen and spent your entire life in Oakland, moving to Greece, alone, would probably be pretty terrible. Especially if you're a black kid. Europe is suuuuper racist. Even developmentally, it's not optimal. You're playing for a coach and a team that very likely doesn't speak the language, playing a different style of basketball, with different rules (trapezoidal lane), against grown men, and everyone knows you'll be gone in a year. And it's much harder for coaches to scout you, because you're thousands of miles away getting 5 minutes a night in Turkey.

 

The idea that a player could "just go play overseas for a year" is kinda ridiculous when it is presented as a standard option...

[NickCave 194]

I know Brandon Jennings did it, but how many other American kids passed up college to play Euroball before the draft?

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

If you're seventeen and spent your entire life in Oakland, moving to Greece, alone, would probably be pretty terrible. Especially if you're a black kid. Europe is suuuuper racist. Even developmentally, it's not optimal. You're playing for a coach and a team that very likely doesn't speak the language, playing a different style of basketball, with different rules (trapezoidal lane), against grown men, and everyone knows you'll be gone in a year. And it's much harder for coaches to scout you, because you're thousands of miles away getting 5 minutes a night in Turkey.

 

The idea that a player could "just go play overseas for a year" is kinda ridiculous when it is presented as a standard option...

 

Yeah, I guess it's not a good situation. I would do it out of spite, though.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

I remember Jalen Rose talking about taking money once. Like, people become outraged and act like it's a bunch of greedy assholes ruining the integrity of the game, but even if you have a problem with that, it's not how most of these player seem to see it. Like, he played with a locker room full of people who came from nothing. People's moms were at home in the dark without the money to get the lights turned on, and they aren't even allowed to take $200 from some rich booster to have them turned back on, so that some ******* fan can enjoy the idea that his players are untainted amateurs, w/e the **** that even means. All the while these kids are earning millions and millions for someone else. It's psychotic that this is how it works, let alone that people get mad if someone gets paid.

[NickCave 194]

 

 

Yeah, I guess it's not a good situation. I would do it out of spite, though.

 

Also, colleges have academic standards. If I was 18, 6'8, with a 40+ inch vertical, 4.5 40 speed, and could shoot like Kevin Durant, I'd be hopping mad if somebody told me I had to retake the ACT in order to secure work as a professional athlete. It is an absurd situation.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

Also, colleges have academic standards. If I was 18, 6'8, with a 40+ inch vertical, 4.5 40 speed, and could shoot like Kevin Durant, I'd be hopping mad if somebody told me I had to retake the ACT in order to secure work as a professional athlete. It is an absurd situation.

 

Yeah, my brother and I both know several people who were offered full rides to top SEC schools for football or baseball and who ended up not being able to go or having to drop out for academic reasons. There is no reason those two things should even be related.

[NickCave 194]

I remember Jalen Rose talking about taking money once. Like, people become outraged and act like it's a bunch of greedy assholes ruining the integrity of the game, but even if you have a problem with that, it's not how most of these player seem to see it. Like, he played with a locker room full of people who came from nothing. People's moms were at home in the dark without the money to get the lights turned on, and they aren't even allowed to take $200 from some rich booster to have them turned back on, so that some ******* fan can enjoy the idea that his players are untainted amateurs, w/e the **** that even means. All the while these kids are earning millions and millions for someone else. It's psychotic that this is how it works, let alone that people get mad if someone gets paid.

 

Yeah, exactly. When you add in how blatantly hypocritical the NCAA is (the best example being Ohio St and the 2011 Sugar Bowl. "You are all suspended. But not this year, we have already sold ad space. Next year, though! Because integrity is important and **** you."), everything just breaks down completely.

[NickCave 194]

 

 

Yeah, my brother and I both know several people who were offered full rides to top SEC schools for football or baseball and who ended up not being able to go or having to drop out for academic reasons. There is no reason those two things should even be related.

 

Have you ever seen what the SEC does with football scholarships? It's called over signing, and is basically the same as an airline overbooking a flight, except there is no refund and your life is ruined