Tuan Le is being accused of cheating....

[ChkDeezNuts 0]

This is in Paul phillips web site...and if you browse the 2+2 forums...everybody is all worked up in a lather.From Paul Phillips site:While we are on the subject of the WPT , whats your opinion on the so called percentage swapping between Habib and Tuan Le , some forums are suggesting it was as high as 50 % .I've been reluctant to post about this since I don't know for sure what the arrangement was, if in fact one existed. It is widely believed by people who would tend to know that there was a large shared interest between hasan and tuan; I heard it was hasan owning 50% of tuan, not a swap, but the potential problem is the same either way. It's hard to overlook hands like this one, when still 6-handed:Hand 43: John Phan has the button in seat 5, Hasan Habib raises to $400,000, and Tuan Le pushes all in for $965,000 more. Habib thinks for a while, counts out the proper number of chips, thinks a little longer, and then folds. 2-1 to call for the dominating chip leader on a hand he opened with.Or this one, 3-handed:Hand 117: Tuan Le has the button in seat 4, and he immediately pushes all in. Hasan Habib asks for a count, and it's $1.54 million more for him to call. Habib says, "I should call you," and folds K-J of clubs faceup. Tuan had fewer than five big blinds in his stack and pushed on the button in a 3-handed game where he is way behind the other two in chips and thus has virtually no chance of "sneaking up a spot." How do you think KJs does against Tuan's hand range under those conditions?I don't know whether anyone did anything unethical and I like both hasan and tuan. But it's not realistic for people to ignore huge shared interests at the poker table, and I have no idea what could be done about it. You could try to ban it but people will do it anyway. You could require swap disclosure but not everyone will, and even if they do it doesn't help you that much to know about it. I fear that tournament poker is already on its way into becoming a "team sport" and eventually people might start feeling like they have to join a team just to keep up. Dread."If true, and I don't see how at least these hands cannot be, this is EXTREMELY shady. It would be different if these were reraises from someone like Dewey Tomko, but versus Tuan Le? Is there a player in the poker universe with a LAG-ier tournament image than Tuan?

[custom36 4]

I agree with Phillips on this one. That seems pretty shady. I'm sure there will be a response soon.Edit - On second thought, I don't. Why would Habib chip dump to Tuan Le when he was in great position to win the tournament? Wouldn't he have more money if he won the tournament? As shady as it seems, maybe Habib had picked up a tell or two on Le that meant he actually had a really good hand.

[Mr Monkey 0]

this stuff happens all the time, theirs not much u can do about it. its just the way it is

[Vade 0]

Removed.Apology on its way. I honestly have no idea why I posted this :-/

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I KNEW IT.... I TOLD U GUYS HE WAS NO GOOD.....I CANT WAIT FOR THE FLAMERS ON THIS ONE

[custom36 4]

I KNEW IT.... I TOLD U GUYS HE WAS NO GOOD.....I CANT WAIT FOR THE FLAMERS ON THIS ONE

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CAPSLOCK'Nuff said.Edit - Fixed code error. Scroll down just a bit on that link...to the picture.

[Meatwad 0]

it seemed like hasan tried to win. i mean he raised 1 mill with 7's, tuan goes all in with A8s, he calls, tuan hits a flush on the turn. the way tuan kept doubling up everytime was incredible. i'm sure hasan would've wanted the full money and half of second or third.

[HoosierAlum 0]

If you look at the examples Phillips listed, I think it is glaringly obvious that Habib was doing his best to help Tuan move up in the money. I believe Habib had a large chip lead 6 handed, and you are telling me when getting 2-1 on his money he isn't going to make that call? Unless he had god awful cards, he makes that call on anybody else. And even if he did have god awful cards, he probably still would have made that call getting 2-1, given the opportunity to eliminate a player. But I guess you can conceiveably see somebody laying down this hand.The hand where the collusion is even more obvious is when the table is 3 handed, Tuan Le has less than 5 big blinds, and he moves in on the button. Habib had KJs, and he doesnt call?! Im sorry, but doesn't that seem like an automatic call considering the circumstances? This is a pretty good spot to knock out a short stack and get yourself alot more cash. Or....its a good spot to fold and help Tuan build some chips so you can get head up with him and get even more cash. I know Phillips isn't the only one talking about this. It's all over the other forums, and I'm very interested to see what transpires. I am also excited to see the WPT episode so we can see what hand Habib laid down 6 handed getting 2-1.

[extempore 1]

It's getting to the point where I would believe it...except it was Paul Phillips who said it. The guy does seem to latch on to every internet poker rumor and give it blog space :?

I know you'd never dream of saying something like that unless you had a list of factual errors I've made in my blog. Could you post your list please? I appreciate your help in improving my accuracy; I'm sure you're not the kind of lowlife who would attack my reliability with absolutely no basis for doing so.

[custom36 4]

This is a pretty good spot to knock out a short stack and get yourself alot more cash.

Or it's a good chance to make a stupid call and give him some more chips. Even if Tuan has an A2 offsuit, Habib is an underdog.

[HoosierAlum 0]

"It's getting to the point where I would believe it...except it was Paul Phillips who said it. The guy does seem to latch on to every internet poker rumor and give it blog space"I know you'd never dream of saying something like that unless you had a list of factual errors I've made in my blog. Could you post your list please? I appreciate your help in improving my accuracy; I'm sure you're not the kind of lowlife who would attack my reliability with absolutely no basis for doing so.hahahahaha Paul Phillips is the man

[custom36 4]

Woah, he reads FCP. And he's calling out Vade. :shock:Edit - Paul, since I know you read this, please answer my question: Why would Habib endanger his stranglehold on the table by chip dumping to Tuan? Wouldn't he make MORE money if he won the tournament than if Tuan did?

[allinbluff35 0]

Vade PWNED by PaulP

[extempore 1]

Or it's a good chance to make a stupid call and give him some more chips. Even if Tuan has an A2 offsuit, Habib is an underdog.

A2o is a god-awful example because he's easily getting the right price to call against that hand, but since most people aren't generous enough to play with their cards face-up, hasan can only make a decision based on the range of hands tuan could hold. Let me guess, you think tuan's hand range is "everything that's a favorite over KJs, and nothing else." If that's the case then you're right, that'd be a pretty stupid call.Exercise to the reader what tuan's actual hand range was likely to be, and how KJs fares against it.

[custom36 4]

Edit - Paul, since I know you read this, please answer my question: Why would Habib endanger his stranglehold on the table by chip dumping to Tuan? Wouldn't he make MORE money if he won the tournament than if Tuan did?

But thanks for the lesson. :roll:

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

Very interesting post Paul........excellent followupGood luck at this years WSOP(assuming your playing) :!:

[custom36 4]

Let me guess, you think tuan's hand range is "everything that's a favorite over KJs, and nothing else." If that's the case then you're right, that'd be a pretty stupid call.Exercise to the reader what tuan's actual hand range was likely to be, and how KJs fares against it.

Well thank you for assuming what I was thinking. It's nice to know that pros are assholes too. As I said earlier, maybe he has a read on Tuan and felt that he was likely beaten. Speculation only goes so far and stirring up shit like this is really pointless.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

Mr. Dot com is the man :clap:

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

However, if paul is right and there was a collusion.....It really puts a jab into the integrity of the game(not that stuff like this doesnt happen). However, despite the fact that its a considerably dishonest game(when was the last time you trusted an opponent), you would expect them to keep it professional

[custom36 4]

Yeah, but cheating is a serious charge and if you're going to make an accusation such as this, you need to have more proof than Paul Phillips has. Frankly, I don't see any proof that this was collusion or chip dumping. Do you see enough to make the accusation? Do you see enough to make it publically? I sure don't, but it doesn't surprise me that it came on Paul Phillips' blog.PS - Still waiting for that response Paul.

[lrlslo 0]

It is obvious that Tuan and Habib know each other, and they would rather get heads up between the two of them and elimate Maxfield, but to say that Hasan (the chip leader) would dump to Tuan (the short stack) so Tuan could win. No matter what percentage Tuan would give it would still be much more profitable for Hasan to win, and the pride/satisfaction of the win counts for something to these guys. He would not dump chips as the leader to the shortstack and come in third because he is getting a percentage. Those hands may seem shady, but you see worse all the time in tournies. No big conspiracy, just a lucky ass Tuan and people trying to justify his win.

[HarryDemetriou 0]

Reproduced below are my thoughts on this matter which I have already posted under the tournament forum title "Cheating in Major Poker Tournaments."Furthermore there is also further cicumstantial evidence to suggest that HH may well have been finacially better off with TL winning as part of himself was owned by other outside parties. As such this whole sorry saga has become quite messy. Without access to the whole unedited tapes of the final table along with all the hole cards it remains pure conjecture but nonetheless leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.Re: Cross Ownerships.The problem is that this is impossible to police but the bottom line is that it is going to be bad for poker long term unless poker players act with a degree of integrity. Having said that there is currently a very nasty aurore surrounding the WPT final at The Bellagio last week where some of the finalists owned cross eprcentages of each other. This has actually been raised elsewhere on the net but my sole comment on this specific matter is; "There were numerous plays at the final which when considered in conjunction with the various cross percentage ownerships of some of the players could lead you to very questionable conclusions and a feeling of wanting to puke."

[lrlslo 0]

This topic is bring out the big guns. Any comments from DN, Harman, Helmuth, Arieh, or any of the other pros who have posted here?

[Smasharoo 0]

I agree with Phillips on this one. That seems pretty shady. I'm sure there will be a response soon. It does? It sems pretty standard to me. This is hardly the first tournament where one player at a final table had part of another player.Softplaying happens *constantly* in tournaments. There's nothing that can ever be done about it, it's just the way it is. It's not chip dumping and it's not collusion, it's just not mixing it up with someone you have a vested intrest in doing well if you can avoid it.It's impossible to ever prove and impossible to ever stop.

[HoosierAlum 0]

It's impossible to ever prove and impossible to ever stop.Exactly