Tuukka Rask 1 Toronto 0

[Zach6668 513]

Come on dude.It's not a Rask vs Pogge argument.It's a Rask vs Raycroft argument.They traded someone with potential, for a nobody, who had ONE good season in the NHL, followed up by a terrible season. He's now played 1 and a half very mediocre seasons in Toronto to validate our fears.Rask is STILL a blue chip prospect, and just proved to everyone he's got what it takes to at least play in the NHL.Until Raycroft wins something of substance in Toronto, this is a trade won by Boston.

[serge 904]

of course I agree...Sorry Arp me agreeing with you will diminish your argument..lol....but its so true...Also people forget that Andrew Raycroft was Rookie of the Year and the next year not only did he have injury problems, he was also a part of the same organization that probably made the worst trade in history by trading away Joe Thornton for basically not much...Leafs bashing has become a sport...Its amazing how they all say the same things..JFJ is a bad gm...bla bla blaMccabe is the worst player in history...bla bla blaleafs dont have any young players...bla bla blaIts like a broken record..

[grocery_mony 8]

of course I agree...Sorry Arp me agreeing with you will diminish your argument..lol....but its so true...Also people forget that Andrew Raycroft was Rookie of the Year and the next year not only did he have injury problems, he was also a part of the same organization that probably made the worst trade in history by trading away Joe Thornton for basically not much...Leafs bashing has become a sport...Its amazing how they all say the same things..JFJ is a bad gm...bla bla blaMccabe is the worst player in history...bla bla blaleafs dont have any young players...bla bla blaIts like a broken record..

cuz its all pretty much true. except for mccabe he is a solid 3 or 4 th D making 6 a year.

[digitalmonkey 929]

If anyone wants to bet me $100 on Rask winning 300games and a Cup in his lifetime, I'm all game.

Patrick Roy, 551 Martin Brodeur, 494 Ed Belfour, 484 Terry Sawchuk, 447 Curtis Joseph, 446 Jacques Plante, 437 Tony Esposito, 423 Glenn Hall, 407 Grant Fuhr, 403 Mike Vernon, 385 John Vanbiesbrouck, 374 Andy Moog, 372 Tom Barrasso, 369 Dominik Hasek, 362 Rogatien Vachon, 355 Chris Osgood, 336 Gump Worsley, 335 Harry Lumley, 330 Sean Burke, 324 Billy Smith, 305I'll take the 300 wins but I won't bet on Boston winning a Cup.

[serge 904]

I will bet a $100 on Raycroft vs Task career wins...IT will take a long time to collect but I am up for it..by the way I am sure Dale knows that all those goalies didnt have the benefit of Shootout wins

[digitalmonkey 929]

I will bet a $100 on Raycroft vs Task career wins...IT will take a long time to collect but I am up for it..by the way I am sure Dale knows that all those goalies didnt have the benefit of Shootout wins

Why is Adrian still up?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Why is Adrian still up?

P.S. I will take that bet Serge...if only for shits and giggles.

[serge 904]

Actually he is sleeping...just pointing it out thats all

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Come on dude.It's not a Rask vs Pogge argument.It's a Rask vs Raycroft argument.They traded someone with potential, for a nobody, who had ONE good season in the NHL, followed up by a terrible season. He's now played 1 and a half very mediocre seasons in Toronto to validate our fears.Rask is STILL a blue chip prospect, and just proved to everyone he's got what it takes to at least play in the NHL.Until Raycroft wins something of substance in Toronto, this is a trade won by Boston.

Im not being sarcastic, and Im not trying to be an ass, but I really dont understand something....why has Raycroft proven nothing after winning a RoY and having a great first year(and then a bad one), but Rask has already proven himself and is the clearly better player by never having played a game in the NHL? You considered Raycroft NOTHING a year and half ago? Really? Nothing?Did you really just say that Rask "just proved to everyone" he's got what it takes to play in the NHL? Are you serious? 1 game?Its easy to bash Raycroft. Yes, he has played badly for the Leafs, I wont argue that. And I really wont argue the trade was bad, thats not my point. My point is why is everyone so quick to annoint Rask a star player....do you know how many goalies come in to the NHL as stars that never pan out? Or further still, how many have great, fantastic rookie seasons and do jack afterwards....for instance, Mr.Nothing, Andrew Raycroft!Im just asking you exactly what is that Rask has proven to you to make you like him so much? If the Leafs had made the trade at the end of Raycroft's first year, would you not have said "wow, look at the blue chip prospect, RoY the Leafs just got!". Bash the Leafs, bash JFJ....yes, they made a bad trade. But I think Im being more realistic and saying he took a chance, and it didnt work out. And that up to now, I still havent seen anything that makes me think Boston improved dramatically in that trade. Let them get results from Rask (not 1 win) and then we can talk and I will admit defeat.

[serge 904]

P.S. I will take that bet Serge...if only for shits and giggles.

ok booked...By the time I collect the $100 will pay for 2 beers at Adrian's 21st birthday party

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I'll take the 300 wins but I won't bet on Boston winning a Cup.

Boston doesnt have to win it, Rask does. By all accounts, he should be able to do it all by himself anyway. My offer stands.

[Zach6668 513]

Did you really just say that Rask "just proved to everyone" he's got what it takes to play in the NHL? Are you serious? 1 game?

Eh, I didn't mean to say it that convincingly. More that he showed a lot more poise in the net than Raycroft really has since his first year. I do agree with you people are jumping to conclusions about Rask, so I didn't mean to paint it in that way, but IMO, a blue chip prospect is worth more than Andrew Raycroft. He had a good rookie year, but in the 2.5 (right?) years since then, he's been pretty abysmal.I was certainly optimistic about him when Toronto added him, I didn't know anything about Rask at the time, and I still don't know much about prospects (until you guys give me a goddamn FCHL franchise), but at this point in time, I really don't know how anyone can say this wasn't a bad trade for Toronto.Raycroft has performed so well that the Leafs had to go get another goalie to be their number one! How is this anything but a bad trade?I don't think the argument should have anything to do with Pogge though, btw.

[serge 904]

FYI Raycroft holds the record for most wins in a season by a Maple Leaf

[digitalmonkey 929]

FYI Raycroft holds the record for most wins in a season by a Maple Leaf

wippeeeeeee

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

of course I agree...Sorry Arp me agreeing with you will diminish your argument..lol....but its so true...

Yeah, that seems to be the case, doesnt it?Its good, I like being the dissenting point of view.

[serge 904]

Yeah, that seems to be the case, doesnt it?Its good, I like being the dissenting point of view.

dissenting = correct usually in this forum

[digitalmonkey 929]

I agree with this blurb from HockeysFuture..."Rask has the potential to be an elite starting goaltender in the NHL. As with any prospect, he cannot yet be labeled a sure thing, but the young netminder has continued to impress."The thing is...he doesn't have to be elite to be better than Raycroft at this point.

[Ex_Matt 0]

So hard being a leaf fan these days. However Raycroft is a piece of trash. The guys got no heart.But I cant blame him for the leafs being a bad team. The real problem is ferguson. The guy has no clue how to run a hockey club, or how to go after big names. He had a chance to get FORSBERG a few seasons back and what happens. . . he goes to NASHVILLE. Toronto has the most profitable market in the NHL and we got a GM that goes after players like Lindros who gets injured and sits out half the season. He goes after defencemen for a team that relies on ROOKIES and Darcy Tucker for offence and a good for nothing goalie. Who cares if the defence improves and allows less shots on net, it means nothing if the goalie cant save them.

[hockey fan 0]

Meh...this trade is a sore spot for me.....What most people are missing on this deal is the MARKET VALUE of both players at the time of the deal.You can ignore everything else.It's not about whether Rask is better than Pogge, or whether Rask is better than Raycroft, or whether Rask will have a better career record than Raycroft, or Pogge, etc, etc. Looking at it from a cold, hard, business point of view, you had:1) Tuukka Rask - a bonafide blue chip prospect goalie ranked at or near the top of the goalie heap2) Andrew Raycroft - an ex-ROY goalie, coming off a horrific, injury plagued season where he had dropped to 3rd string status behind Tim Thomas and Hannu Toivenen.Everyone knew that Boston had too many goalies and had to unload Raycroft, they could not hang on to 3 goalies.As far as market value went, Raycroft was at a low - he should have been a bargain at that point.Honest to God, when I first heard that the Leafs had dealt for Raycroft, I thought, "Oh good, now we have a decent back-up, and he must have come cheap...."My jaw must have dropped right off my face when I heard we had traded Rask for him!I suddenly realized that not only were we not just bringing him in as a backup, but we were actually pinning our hopes on him to be our #1 goalie, AND had just given up our most valuable, tradeable asset for him!The funny thing was, most people at the time had the same argument as most here did - What if Rask doesn't pan out and Raycroft does? My point was (and is) that it doesn't really matter. We gave up a high value asset for a low value asset at the point in time of the trade. Period. We could have gotten just as good (or better) value by signing a free agent goalie without giving up any of our prospects! - And at a cheaper salary to boot.That deal alone made me decide to no longer give JFJ any more slack as the Leafs GM.

[Whiter Sr 0]

So hard being a leaf fan these days. However Raycroft is a piece of trash. The guys got no heart.But I cant blame him for the leafs being a bad team. The real problem is ferguson. The guy has no clue how to run a hockey club, or how to go after big names. He had a chance to get FORSBERG a few seasons back and what happens. . . he goes to NASHVILLE. Toronto has the most profitable market in the NHL and we got a GM that goes after players like Lindros who gets injured and sits out half the season. He goes after defencemen for a team that relies on ROOKIES and Darcy Tucker for offence and a good for nothing goalie. Who cares if the defence improves and allows less shots on net, it means nothing if the goalie cant save them.

Heart has nothing to do with goaltending. He just doesn't have the skills to be a #1 goalie in the NHL.Secondly Lindros and Forsberg are the exact same age "traded for each other at the draft", and also Forsberg is as injury prone as Lindros. He is the better of the 2 but definitely not a can't miss free agent.I agree that JFK is clueless but you can't say missing out on Forsberg has cost the Leafs huge.The last paragraph makes no sense to me. Who are these rookies they depend on to score. Did they become the Toronto Blackhawks? I was not aware of this.I bash the Leafs as much as the next guy but our bashing has to make a little sense.

[serge 904]

they are coming out of the woodwork now...jackbauer,amplified and now this moron

[Ex_Matt 0]

Heart has nothing to do with goaltending. He just doesn't have the skills to be a #1 goalie in the NHL.Secondly Lindros and Forsberg are the exact same age "traded for each other at the draft", and also Forsberg is as injury prone as Lindros. He is the better of the 2 but definitely not a can't miss free agent.I agree that JFK is clueless but you can't say missing out on Forsberg has cost the Leafs huge.The last paragraph makes no sense to me. Who are these rookies they depend on to score. Did they become the Toronto Blackhawks? I was not aware of this.I bash the Leafs as much as the next guy but our bashing has to make a little sense.

Kyle Wellwood, Matt Stajan, Juri Tlusky. . . . Come on now. They're good players but they have no offensive leader on the team. I dont really pay attention to the leafs anymore for obvious reasons or else I could better explain myself. And yea forsberg is on the brink of retirement now, but it was a few seasons ago that the leafs had a chance to get him. And you comparing forsberg to Lindros because theyre the same age is hilarious. If lindros got hit by someone half his size his career would be over. And I'm not saying that not getting forsberg is the reason they suck, I was just using it as an example. JFJ DOES NOT GO AFTER BIG NAME PLAYERS. Who was the last big name to come to Toronto? Paval Kubina? OH wait a minute he has injury problems too!!And get the **** outta here Heart has nothing to do with Goal tending. . . Have you ever played any competative sport in your life?? It doesn't matter what position you're playing, you have to have heart. The goalie is the last resort for the team and in the end the team relies on them to make big time saves . . . game changing saves. Are you gonna tell me Brodeur doesn't have heart?? Luongo doesn't have heart? You ever see Luongo in an interview after hes played like shit? The guy looks sick to his stomach, meanwhile you look at raycroft and hes almost laughing about how badly he played.

[serge 904]

Wellwood and Stajan are far from rookies...You say they have no offensive leader on the team...so i guess Mats Sundin is a nobody???And when did the Leafs have a chance to get Forsberg???Was a rumour you started in your basement along with the rest of moronic so called leaf fans///IGNORE BUTTON is useful for morons like this..PS ...Its Daniels fault..Everyone he posts he brings in the rif raf like this...

[digitalmonkey 929]

Wellwood and Stajan are far from rookies...You say they have no offensive leader on the team...so i guess Mats Sundin is a nobody???And when did the Leafs have a chance to get Forsberg???Was a rumour you started in your basement along with the rest of moronic so called leaf fans///IGNORE BUTTON is useful for morons like this..PS ...Its Daniels fault..Everyone he posts he brings in the rif raf like this...

Ban Daniel!

[Ex_Matt 0]

Wellwood and Stajan are far from rookies...You say they have no offensive leader on the team...so i guess Mats Sundin is a nobody???And when did the Leafs have a chance to get Forsberg???Was a rumour you started in your basement along with the rest of moronic so called leaf fans///IGNORE BUTTON is useful for morons like this..PS ...Its Daniels fault..Everyone he posts he brings in the rif raf like this...

I didnt even read daniels post ftr.How long have they been in the league? This is their 3rd season or something. Thats hardly veteran / experienced player status. How long are they gonna ride Mats Sundin? I love the guy, never said a bad thing about him, but the harsh reality is that he's getting near the end of his career and he wont be their top producer much longer. IMO the leafs are like the rangers the year gretzky retired. 2nd rate players surrounded by a big name here and there and goal tenders that cannot compete. And when a professional player is a FREE AGENT. ANYONE has a chance to get that player. The leafs passed and picked up Lindros who played half a season and was dumped off to dallas. I didn't start the forsberg rumour, it was a possibility and it was passed up.