Who Sucks More Here?

[Royal_Tour 0]

I know i suck. I used to be a good tourney player, but i suck so bad now its not even funny, although i'm just finishing HOH2 again, so I've managed to get back to solid tourney playing.now this a live game. 100 players. $340 buy in.blinds are 200/400 and going up to 300/600 the very next hand.Hero has 8.5kvillain has about 14kVillain is UTG+1 - Villain looked like a decent player, i honestly put him at slightly above average for a live playerHero is Button with KdQd1 fold, villain raises to 1200. folds around Hero calls. (probably my 1st mistake)Pot 3000flop Qh,4h,6dVillain leads out for 2000.This is a pretty good flop for me, but i'm not 100% sure where i stand, i really dont think villain has AQ, and I'm having trouble putting him on Aces or kings.The table has plenty of short stacks and plenty of late position aggression. I had a feeling if he woke up with aces he would be limp/raising since many of the stacks were gettign desperate with blinds going up next hand.should i call here and re-evaluate, or just fold and stop playing KQs with an M of 14***NOTE: the reason i asked who sucks more, is because the Villain, had 6,6 (middle set) here and showed it when the hand was over and said, "be carefull of those small pairs...." sooo that changed my view on him and his playing ability.

[jmbreslin 0]

Well, I'd say you suck more. His play may have been unusual with 66, but the deception worked perfectly - you never saw the set coming. And the PF call is very questionable.The one thing you have going for you with the PF call is position, but you did identify him as a decent player who raised from UTG. That means several of the hands in his range have you dominated and drawing almost dead (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ). By calling you're either hoping to hit the flush or a big draw, or that he has a much wider range. As you said yourself, when the Q falls on the flop it seems great but you could still be well behind.Bottom line: I don't think there is enough upside with KQs against a decent UTG raiser here.

[tentenoffsuit 0]

Well, I'd say you suck more. His play may have been unusual with 66, but the deception worked perfectly - you never saw the set coming. And the PF call is very questionable.The one thing you have going for you with the PF call is position, but you did identify him as a decent player who raised from UTG. That means several of the hands in his range have you dominated and drawing almost dead (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ). By calling you're either hoping to hit the flush or a big draw, or that he has a much wider range. As you said yourself, when the Q falls on the flop it seems great but you could still be well behind.Bottom line: I don't think there is enough upside with KQs against a decent UTG raiser here.

Your M is really only about 10 if blinds are going up the very next hand... I think if you're going to play the KQ here you've got to push or fold preflop. Push to make him lay down a small pair or AJ/T/similar. In a live situation where i think the guy is pretty solid, i'm going to pass and wait for a better hand.I see nothing wrong with playing the KQs on the button if you're deeper... but the M is really what gets you here... you put in 15% of your stack in and then laid it down when you paired the flop... if you're going to call with the KQs when you hit your flop you gotta move. After calling you've now dropped your M to 7. Unless you're very, very sure you're beat, i think you have to push that flop. With him being a solid UTG raiser, maybe you were sure, but if you had him pegged as solid you should've laid it down pf. 15% of your stack hoping to hit a draw that has a 35% chance of then getting there is not a very smart play. Granted you were dead this time, but postjustification is awesome.

[tentenoffsuit 0]

Side question:If it was folded around to you on the button do you raise with KQs and an M of 14 (soon to be 10)?

[Cappy37 0]

KQ is not a calling hand with an M of 14, even in position. KQ is a raising hand or a folding hand.I don't find the villain in error at all on this hand. 2 hearts on the board means he really can't be checking the flop, and the only chance he has to play a big pot is if you flopped something, so the flop bet was fine, assuming he had been CBing 2/3 consistently. Phil Hellmuth actually said something pretty profound on PAD this week: "Why would I take 2-1 on my hand if the pot is laying me 2.5-1? Isn't my stack more value to me (alluding to his superior playing ability) than 2-1 getting 2.5-1? Isn't my stack worth more like 3 (or 4) to 1?" I'm paraphrasing of course, but it's a concept I've applied to my own tournament play forever without being able to rationalize it so "eloquently" as such. In summary: you're a better player than this. I'm a better player than this. Even if villain had JT (or another pocket pair JJ and below) it isn't worth us getting tangled up in a pot where we probably are getting laid 2.5-1 as a PF 2-1 or 3-2 dog. The only dream flop is AJT rainbow, anything else and you are in a state of no-man's land. You could make arguments to repop, but all that does is give you a chance to win a small pot, or get pot-committed to play KQ for all the marbles, so meh to that too. I still like re-popping even more than calling, especially if you have a solid table image. As it stands, we got a hand that's trailing any ace, and we don't have the betting lead, and he's likely to fire a shell into the pot whether he hit or not. If he's making a weak raise, he's certainly going to make more, we'll get his chips later.

[Cappy37 0]

Side question:If it was folded around to you on the button do you raise with KQs and an M of 14 (soon to be 10)?

You can raise pretty liberally with KQ from MP2 thru the button, really. Taking the betting lead in a hand PF with a chance to take down the blinds without resistance with a much better than average holding is a desirable situation, especially since the blinds at this level mean something to your stack.

[Yahkin 0]

KQ is not a calling hand with an M of 14, even in position. KQ is a raising hand or a folding hand.I don't find the villain in error at all on this hand. 2 hearts on the board means he really can't be checking the flop, and the only chance he has to play a big pot is if you flopped something, so the flop bet was fine, assuming he had been CBing 2/3 consistently.

QFTVillain has to lead here with the flush draw out there.

[copernicus 0]

Side question:If it was folded around to you on the button do you raise with KQs and an M of 14 (soon to be 10)?

No brainer open-raise on the button. I also think its a no brainer to play the hand against an EP raiser. If stacks were deeper its a reraise. With these stacks its a very tough decision, though I would lean toward a push in a live tourney. Online I hate a push here, because you are guaranteed to get called by garbage pairs and be racing from behind at best. Live (and deeper into the tournament) I think you get middle pairs to lay down.I would like to think I could fold this flop, but I suck at folding TPGK to sets. What would give me some hope of folding it is that there is no A on board, and he still looks to be protecting something from the flush draw. With the PF flat call Ks and Qs have to be scary cards to a weak Ace or an underpair. So what is he risking 2k chips with OOP? A continuation bet with 88 would be retarded, for example.

[Sheiky 0]

I've had this situation as my bust out hand in 3 out of my last 4 tourneys.Hand one(6-max):I'm in the BB with A9 clubs and an M of 13 i think (may have been less). CO who has me covered just raises 3BBs, i call, flop is 892 with one spade, i check and he overbets the pot, i think for 10 seconds(which is long for me) and push, he calls with Jacks and they hold.Hand 2(FR): EP chip leader limps, folds to me in the hijack and i call with QJo, BB checks, flop comes Q high off-suit, BB checks, the chip leader bets the pot, i think again for ten seconds then push for another 2000 more or something, BB folds and the bettor snap calls with KK.I hate these situations in tourneys, i would RAI here and go broke.

[jmbreslin 0]

What would give me some hope of folding it is that there is no A on board, and he still looks to be protecting something from the flush draw. With the PF flat call Ks and Qs have to be scary cards to a weak Ace or an underpair. So what is he risking 2k chips with OOP? A continuation bet with 88 would be retarded, for example.

That's a good way of looking at it. What would he be CBing for 2/3 pot OOP on this flop after a UTG raise? Virtually anything you put in that range puts Hero well behind.

[StupidKid 0]

I've had this situation as my bust out hand in 3 out of my last 4 tourneys.Hand one(6-max):I'm in the BB with A9 clubs and an M of 13 i think (may have been less). CO who has me covered just raises 3BBs, i call, flop is 892 with one spade, i check and he overbets the pot, i think for 10 seconds(which is long for me) and push, he calls with Jacks and they hold.Hand 2(FR): EP chip leader limps, folds to me in the hijack and i call with QJo, BB checks, flop comes Q high off-suit, BB checks, the chip leader bets the pot, i think again for ten seconds then push for another 2000 more or something, BB folds and the bettor snap calls with KK.I hate these situations in tourneys, i would RAI here and go broke.

IDK how these are calls preflop. A9suited OOP is bad, either re-raise pf since you have a good stack to resteal with if CO has been active, or muck it. Both are ok.Hand 2, IDK how many chips you have but overlimping QJo and going broke on a Qhigh flop is pretty bad.^^^^^^^^^This is meant to be constructive rather than obnoxious, sorry if it comes across like that.

[Sheiky 0]

I have no idea why i make those decisions aswell, i'd get a better ROI closing my eyes and randomly clicking these days.But i don't think calling on the Button with KQs in this spot is bad.

[trystero 0]

I really have no idea how you found a fold here