Official Firearms Thread

[hank213 1,823]

just my two cents.Guns are bad.Americans love guns.I am not American.I had never seen a gun up close until I was around 30 years old. My wife is American and while visiting her family, I was introduced to guns. They all have guns there. I was scared but they made me go to a shooting range(outdoors) , where we walked up and started shooting.I shot some gun, not sure what it was. It had some kick to it..I was scared.Thats my gun story.

I did NOT see that plot twist in the 3rd act coming.

[ajs510 122]

just my two cents.Guns are bad.Americans love guns.I am not American.I had never seen a gun up close until I was around 30 years old. My wife is American and while visiting her family, I was introduced to guns. They all have guns there. I was scared but they made me go to a shooting range(outdoors) , where we walked up and started shooting.I shot some gun, not sure what it was. It had some kick to it..I was scared.Thats my gun story.

Bolded = Italicized.

[El Guapo 8]

Hank or Adam,Have either of you heard anything good/bad about these. How about actually being able to fit it your pocket?Glock 26

[ajs510 122]

Hank or Adam,Have either of you heard anything good/bad about these. How about actually being able to fit it your pocket?Glock 26

I looked at a G26 as a possible candidate for my AMEX, and what I determined was that, for me, it's a little too big and a little too thick to suit my purpose for an everyday, pocket-carry pistol. It's important to note that the Glock's are almost all double-stack pistols, meaning they sacrifice slimness for more mag capacity. Single stack's such as the Kahr hold about half as many rounds, but nearly disappear in your pocket (so I'm told anyway, I haven't tested one yet). You can see the difference here, Kahr single stack on top, Glock double stack on bottom:I know some folks on other forums have claimed success with the subcompact Glock's as a front pocket or cargo-shorts pocket pistol, but that's just what I found when I held one and sized it up. Opinions may vary, your Dad will just want to hit up his local shop and see for himself.

[coesillian 0]

how accurate are these pistols you guys are talking about carrying around concealed. I can appreciate the power a pistol can have in diffusing a situation that has gotten out of control, but if the situation deteriorated more and you had to engage a person with it how confident do you feel to be successful? At the shooting range you shoot a stationary target at a distance of, I dunno, 50 yards? In a real life high tension scenario what range would be too far? what if the target was moving?

[hank213 1,823]

how accurate are these pistols you guys are talking about carrying around concealed. I can appreciate the power a pistol can have in diffusing a situation that has gotten out of control, but if the situation deteriorated more and you had to engage a person with it how confident do you feel to be successful? At the shooting range you shoot a stationary target at a distance of, I dunno, 50 yards? In a real life high tension scenario what range would be too far? what if the target was moving?

50 yds is a helluva long shot for a pistol. When I practice it's 15-25 ft. Right around that radius is considered the "danger zone" in which a potential assailant could readily attack you. If you're shooting a pistol beyond 50ft you're just showing off or doing it for shits and giggles not any serious kind of "training." For a concealed carry piece: any confrontation you get into, where you might stand any chance in hell of not getting convicted of brandishing or assault, is most likely going to happen withing 20ft or so at the outside. So all you have to do is be confident with the weapon at around that max. distance.Guapmole, (prounounce waaaaaa POE MOE loeee)What aj said. Couple of caveats:1) these small guns in a caliber like .40S&W are gonna have some serious recoil issues to contend with so he better be excellent at the first round on the draw. 2) I don't care for Glocks as "pocket guns" because the safety is in the trigger and if it were to get hung up he might end up sans a testicle or two.

[ajs510 122]

how accurate are these pistols you guys are talking about carrying around concealed. I can appreciate the power a pistol can have in diffusing a situation that has gotten out of control, but if the situation deteriorated more and you had to engage a person with it how confident do you feel to be successful? At the shooting range you shoot a stationary target at a distance of, I dunno, 50 yards? In a real life high tension scenario what range would be too far? what if the target was moving?

If you shoot someone at 50 yards (half a football field), you'd better get yourself an excellent attorney because self-defense is basically out the window. You would want to train at distances of roughly 3-15 yards, you won't be effective in a life threatening situation much higher than that, and your legal obligation to flee rather than fight increases with every step further away your attacker is. More than 15 yards is really only for sport and competition.

[Love4hockey 0]

2) I don't care for Glocks as "pocket guns" because the safety is in the trigger and if it were to get hung up he might end up sans a testicle or two.

I agree with this. I would not be comfortable carrying a gun in my pocket without an external safety. I have a glock 17 for a range gun and absolutely love it. I think that the 3 safeties that they advertise are a joke but I do like how it's such a simple point and shoot gun. I also have it for home protection but it would be pretty much worthless since I keep it locked up in a case with a safety lock on it. Is there any reason why you guys don't want a holster that goes on the inside of your pants? I have no experience with one but I've heard they are very good at concealment.

[coesillian 0]

so say I'm at 20 yards from a guy with what appears to be a pistol and I decide to run, chances are he won't be able to it me.interesting. seems short.

[hank213 1,823]

so say I'm at 20 yards from a guy with what appears to be a pistol and I decide to run, chances are he won't be able to it me.interesting. seems short.

I don't know that I'd go that far, but your chances are much better at 18 meters than 3. Try this experiment. Take an ordinary paper grocery bag and put enough weight in it to keep it from blowing away. Sit it on a sidewalk then take about 30 steps from it and look at it. The grocery bag is about the size of the human torso (assuming you don't have freakishly large or small bags in Quebec, dunno, never been there) and that's what you're trying to hit with something about the size of a large medicine capsule.

[mr_druid 0]

Shot an AR-15 in Vegas last weekend. Loved how it felt and shot. It was a good trip to the range.Tom.

[Sal Paradise 57]

2) I don't care for Glocks as "pocket guns" because the safety is in the trigger and if it were to get hung up he might end up sans a testicle or two.

completely agree with this if it's going in a pocket. I love my glock but I never keep one chambered for this very reason (I like my testicles). but also:

Is there any reason why you guys don't want a holster that goes on the inside of your pants? I have no experience with one but I've heard they are very good at concealment.

I was wondering about this too. I have a glock 23, which is the mid range .40 (in terms of concealment capabilities) and I have a concealed carry holster for it that goes around back and it actually works pretty well. won't be concealed with just a tshirt, but pretty much any other kind of shirt and you'd be fine. probably even better if you're fat or black and wear big clothes.

[AmScray 355]

Just want to say- it's been a while since I've priced bulk ammo....HOLY. MOTHER. OF. FUCK, it's gone up like 500% in a few years!I remember $89 1000 round cases of Wold 762X39, being able to buy 1K of 556 for under $200, 1K of 9MM for under $140, and we're not talking about "way back in the day", either. I was ordering them online for those prices...I had heard ammo had "gone up" but since I can't shoot guns anymore I haven't really been keeping up with the finer points; in no way was I expecting anything like 300%, 400%, 500% price increases etc. Holy shit, that's unreal. We used to burn a case of Wolf 762X39 in a single day between a couple of us and not think anything about it. I've shot up a case of 9MM by myself in a single day.No way *in hell* I could afford that shit now when the cases we paid $89 for now sell for over $550

[El Guapo 8]

Adam,My dad really liked the Kahr. Being in CA, do you know the best way for him to test it out and the purchase. Even though he was a cop he has not bought a gun in 20 years. The last gun he got (Sig P226) I bought him for Xmas in 1995 or 96. Other than that, he had always just acquired guns.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

I wan an AK47. Are they legal?

[ajs510 122]

Adam,My dad really liked the Kahr. Being in CA, do you know the best way for him to test it out and the purchase. Even though he was a cop he has not bought a gun in 20 years. The last gun he got (Sig P226) I bought him for Xmas in 1995 or 96. Other than that, he had always just acquired guns.

That's cool, I'm glad he liked it. Obviously actually firing the weapon will be the best test for whether it's a fit or not, and I don't have any experience with gun purchases or local firing ranges in California. I've read on other forums that a lot of public ranges will rent out house weapons for you to try right on the spot (as long as you buy your ammo from them, obviously), so he might have some luck calling around to local ranges and seeing if they have a PM9 he could test out. Another good thing would be to try and find a local dealer that has a range onsite, we don't have any of those around my area (Upstate NY) but I know they exist and I'd think that Cali would have a fair number of them. You can use this link to find local shooting ranges, from there it would really be a matter of calling and asking for guidance from someone local. If you have a favorite local gun shop, they would probably be able to point you in the right direction as well.

[ajs510 122]

I wan an AK47. Are they legal?

You can own a semi-auto AK47 legally most anywhere, but the full auto versions require a lot of extra paperwork, if full auto is even legal in your area. You'll have to make the purchase from a Class 3 dealer, there will be forms that have to be filled out (and fingerprinting, and photographing...) and sent to various agencies (much the same as applying for a pistol permit), and if approved, you have to apply for a tax stamp to be legally permitted to acquire the weapon (costs $200 most everywhere that full auto is legal). Basically, if you're going to go through all that, don't get an AK. Get something worth the effort.

[AmScray 355]

You can own a semi-auto AK47 legally most anywhere, but the full auto versions require a lot of extra paperwork, if full auto is even legal in your area. You'll have to make the purchase from a Class 3 dealer, there will be forms that have to be filled out (and fingerprinting, and photographing...) and sent to various agencies (much the same as applying for a pistol permit), and if approved, you have to apply for a tax stamp to be legally permitted to acquire the weapon (costs $200 most everywhere that full auto is legal). Basically, if you're going to go through all that, don't get an AK. Get something worth the effort.

... plus, the grandfathered right to have that little sear hole in your receiver will cost you an extra $15,000 over a comparable $400 semi-auto one. The ugliness with NFA isn't just the extra hassle- it's the obscene cost for grandfathered, transferable paperwork.

[Sal Paradise 57]

... plus, the grandfathered right to have that little sear hole in your receiver will cost you an extra $15,000 over a comparable $400 semi-auto one. The ugliness with NFA isn't just the extra hassle- it's the obscene cost for grandfathered, transferable paperwork.

I see somebody hasn't priced scary guns in a while.

[AmScray 355]

I see somebody hasn't priced scary guns in a while.

No shit?My initial instinct was to say "$300 semi-auto one" but I added in another $100 just to be on the safe side (I remember buying SAR2's from AIM for $249 in 2002 )How much are AKs now?(edig- hooray google: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124365176 LOLOLOLOLOLOL I have like 4 that I bought in 02 for the afforementioned $249 + $25 FFL fee. They're all with a relative now since I can't have them, but I might request he thin the herd a bit if they're selling for that much)

[AmScray 355]

Wow. Just ****ing wow... This inspired me to look further at prices. Basically, if you'd put your money in guns and ammo in 2002 rather than the stock market, you would be up anywhere from 150%-500%.Un. Freaking. Real.The Saiga 12 was the last gun I bought- I paid $259 for it on closeout from CDNN when EAA stopped importing them, but I knew those were destined to get more popular once the Tactical Toms blessed them (one thing about the "gun community" - not much critical thinking skill there. They weren't able to figure out if something was good or not until it became popular and annointed by either the military, law enforcement or competitive shooters. My $269 HS2000's (now known as the Springfield Armory XD) was probably the best example of that. I crowed about those ****ers forever and no one listened until Springfield Armory bought the rights and priced them on par with a Glock. THEN, all of a sudden, everyone loves them.) I have 2000 rounds of this sitting in two wooden crates with my uncle that I paid $179 for at a gun show in 1999. According to that auction, it's now about $2800 worth. Just positively amazing.

[Sal Paradise 57]

No shit?My initial instinct was to say "$300 semi-auto one" but I added in another $100 just to be on the safe side (I remember buying SAR2's from AIM for $249 in 2002 )How much are AKs now?(edig- hooray google: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124365176 LOLOLOLOLOLOL I have like 4 that I bought in 02 for the afforementioned $249 + $25 FFL fee. They're all with a relative now since I can't have them, but I might request he thin the herd a bit if they're selling for that much)

oh man, that's actually a deal compared to the one's I've seen. went to a gun show last december and all they had was romanian (crapiest ones from my research) and they were between $800 and a grand. I had gone intending to buy one but scRRRREEEEW that.

[AmScray 355]

I have a lot of "I Told You So's" ready to dish out to a lot of people. During the age of massive quantities of dirt cheap 922r compliant 'parts kits guns', I warned a lot of people in 1999-2002 that "the good old days" were now and to buy like mother****ers (for example, put off buying that new deer rifle and use the old one for a few more seasons... Use that $1K to buy three AK's) but a lot of them mocked me saying that "GUN CONTROL IS DEAD!" and that things would stay that way forever... Of course, I didn't always listen to my own advice. I had uncle sell off my three CETME's and my one FAL when money got short a couple years back. Wish I had kept those... I paid $299 for those CETMES from AIM Surplus. I see they're now selling for like $800.L. O. Fvcking. L at the world. At least I did put my money where my mouth was for the most part and will come out the other end OK, unlike the poor assholes who waited until now to buy. Still, lots of regrets over the things I sold or traded away. I had a pretty firm standing rule that I wouldn't ever trade a mean rifle for anything other than another mean rifle (for this very reason- I knew this was coming, I saw it in 1990 when I was a kid living next to Armadillo Arms in Portland and the first Bush ban created maniacal buying..), but I flexed that rule a few times, now to my regret. I *knew* one could always buy more Glocks or Ruger G100's but the day would come when the AK well dried up, yet I still made a few of those trades. Damnit.

[El Guapo 8]

Thx Adam. He is going to get the Kahr 380.

[ajs510 122]

Thx Adam. He is going to get the Kahr 380.

Looks like a sweet little pistol, let me know what he thinks after he fires it and carries it around for a bit. Like Hank said, for a backup gun in close quarters .380 should do just fine. How much?