Question About A Raise (or An Announced Bet) In A Limit 0/8 Game

[biggswolll 0]

so really this pertains to all limit games, but the hand in question was in a live 4/8 0/8 game at the casino where i work. Now im pretty sure i know the answer to this and ill reveal that in a minute, but for now here is the question. Preflop early position brings it in for 8, i fold, the player to my left who is in the 9 seat is contemplating, and the player in the 3 seat says play for 12, action was stopped, and the player in the 9 seat says, ill make it 12, and this point was brought up. Since the player in the 3 seat announced a raise out of turn he should be committed to cap the action at 16, or is he allowed to just call the 12. He wanted to just call the 12.....what do you think?

[onlyme386 0]

He can do whatever he wants.

[koepsy 0]

If he just said raise I think he would be on the hook for the 16. It would be a raise in the dark. Seeing as he said make it 12 I dont think he is committed to a raise to 16. I dont know?

[Dogpatch 2]

He can do whatever he wants.

+1The action before him has changed, which in essence changes his action. If seat 9 had not raised, then the action would be binding.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

+1The action before him has changed, which in essence changes his action. If seat 9 had not raised, then the action would be binding.

He committed the 12 and that must go into the pot.

[Dogpatch 2]

He committed the 12 and that must go into the pot.

10. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed. A player who has called out of turn may not change his wager to a raise under any circumstances.An action MAY be ruled binding if there is no bet, call or raise by an intervening player. There was a raise. That voids seat 3's action. Now if he continually does this, then make it binding anytime he acts out of turn.

[mx957 0]

At my local casino the 12 has to go in no matter what. He can then fold, raise or just leave it at 12.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

At my local casino the 12 has to go in no matter what. He can then fold, raise or just leave it at 12.

QFT

[Dogpatch 2]

At my local casino the 12 has to go in no matter what. He can then fold, raise or just leave it at 12.

Most places do that just to simplify it. Basically there's no "3 strikes" or whatever you want to call it. They don't have time to hand out warnings, so they just make it a hard rule.

[hblask 1]

If he just said raise I think he would be on the hook for the 16. It would be a raise in the dark. Seeing as he said make it 12 I dont think he is committed to a raise to 16. I dont know?

I think this is true, at least at my local casino. There was a similar case where some people got confused when a short stack went all in. The next guy put a raise out when he meant to call, and the next guy declared 'raise', thinking it was only two bets.... well, I never did quite understand it. I think this was it, though:Playing 6/12 LHE, a guy has 3 left, and goes all in (basically he matches the BB, but makes exactly half a bet). Player 2 just puts in 6, thinking it is a call, and player 3 instantly says "raise" and puts 12 in. The dealer stops the action, and says that since player 1 is half or more of a bet, if you put more than that in it counts as a raise, so player 2 would have to put 9 in, and player 3 would put 15 in. Player 1 was PO'ed, and the floor was called over who agreed with the dealers interpretation.If people would just verbally announce their intentions before they move any chips, things like this would never happen.

[biggswolll 0]

well, here is what took place, if you were wondering. Seeing as he announced a verbal raise, i bound him to that, because he was out of turn, and i do believe it was unintentional, he still announced a raise by saying play for 12, but the action to him in fact was already 12, so i made him complete and cap the action at 16. My thinking on this was his intention was to raise from 8 to 12, so when the 9 seat acted on his hand, the action to him was 12, and if he wanted to 3 bet anyway when the action was 8, whats the problem capping it to 16 when the action was 12...long story short he completed to 16 and folded on the flop to 1 bet, which explains why he didnt want to cap it i guess. (im a floorman at the casino btw)

[jethrodull 0]

seems to me, even if you are a floorman, you shouldn't be making rulings at a table that you are playing in....wouldn't call that "objective"....J

[benhoug 0]

(im a floorman at the casino btw)

seems like a horrible ruling if you ask me. The guy never said "raise" he said "play for 12." The fact that he was out of turn is a whole other issue. IMO there is no way that should bind him to cap as he never said anything about capping, nor did he use the word "raise."

[Dogpatch 2]

seems like a horrible ruling if you ask me. The guy never said "raise" he said "play for 12." The fact that he was out of turn is a whole other issue. IMO there is no way that should bind him to cap as he never said anything about capping, nor did he use the word "raise."

Also, I'm not sure I like the thinking behind "he wanted to 3 bet when it was 8 so why should he mind capping it when it's 12?" There's a bit of difference between a 3 bet and a cap.

[pele_br 0]

seems to me, even if you are a floorman, you shouldn't be making rulings at a table that you are playing in....wouldn't call that "objective"....J

seems like a horrible ruling if you ask me. The guy never said "raise" he said "play for 12." The fact that he was out of turn is a whole other issue. IMO there is no way that should bind him to cap as he never said anything about capping, nor did he use the word "raise."

QFTs

[acesup85 0]

well, here is what took place, if you were wondering. Seeing as he announced a verbal raise, i bound him to that, because he was out of turn, and i do believe it was unintentional, he still announced a raise by saying play for 12, but the action to him in fact was already 12, so i made him complete and cap the action at 16. My thinking on this was his intention was to raise from 8 to 12, so when the 9 seat acted on his hand, the action to him was 12, and if he wanted to 3 bet anyway when the action was 8, whats the problem capping it to 16 when the action was 12...long story short he completed to 16 and folded on the flop to 1 bet, which explains why he didnt want to cap it i guess. (im a floorman at the casino btw)

That's great that you are the floorman and all, but you got this ruling wrong for one thing. Secondly since you were in the game you shouldn't be voicing your opinion on what the rule should be, just for keeping the integrity of the game intact. By you being there, you probably influenced the dealer's decision in a biased manner. By im saying "make it 12" then the action being brought to twelve, that is like him saying "Ok, I'll call the twelve" not "I said make it twelve but I actually meant cap it at 16 cause I'm an idiot." So next time before you go to this place you call work, please read a rule book...please???

[Royal_Tour 0]

well, here is what took place, if you were wondering. Seeing as he announced a verbal raise, i bound him to that, because he was out of turn, and i do believe it was unintentional, he still announced a raise by saying play for 12, but the action to him in fact was already 12, so i made him complete and cap the action at 16. My thinking on this was his intention was to raise from 8 to 12, so when the 9 seat acted on his hand, the action to him was 12, and if he wanted to 3 bet anyway when the action was 8, whats the problem capping it to 16 when the action was 12...long story short he completed to 16 and folded on the flop to 1 bet, which explains why he didnt want to cap it i guess. (im a floorman at the casino btw)

seems like a horrible ruling if you ask me. The guy never said "raise" he said "play for 12." The fact that he was out of turn is a whole other issue. IMO there is no way that should bind him to cap as he never said anything about capping, nor did he use the word "raise."

Benhoug sumed it up. He didnt say "raise" he said 12.same applies in NL games if someone acts out of turn in a 1/2Nl game and say make it 8. but the player before him says, "I make it 12". and this point the player who acted out of turn doesnt have to raise. he can call the 12

[biggswolll 0]

That's great that you are the floorman and all, but you got this ruling wrong for one thing. Secondly since you were in the game you shouldn't be voicing your opinion on what the rule should be, just for keeping the integrity of the game intact. By you being there, you probably influenced the dealer's decision in a biased manner. By im saying "make it 12" then the action being brought to twelve, that is like him saying "Ok, I'll call the twelve" not "I said make it twelve but I actually meant cap it at 16 cause I'm an idiot." So next time before you go to this place you call work, please read a rule book...please???

Well let me start by saying this. The first thing i asked him when the action got to him was, you wanted to raise right, he said yes. Now this player has been known to shoot angles, or take shots, on more than one occasion. So when he said yes i wanted to raise, but i wanted to make it 12, i said, so raise. Now, i was not making him do anything, i was simply asking him because of his history of being not so straightforward, if you will, also letting the other players at the table know what was going on (without just downright busting him out in front of everyone), and maybe stopping him from doing it again. It was a pretty situational incident, and as for reading a rule book, ive been in the business for 8 years, and yes rules are important. But, until you've been in this business, shut your mouth, your probably an 18 year old little kid whos played some internet poker, and you have no idea that even though there are rules in the B&M world, its really a judgement call on the floors decision, and we're not always right

[Socrates 0]

Well let me start by saying this. The first thing i asked him when the action got to him was, you wanted to raise right, he said yes. Now this player has been known to shoot angles, or take shots, on more than one occasion. So when he said yes i wanted to raise, but i wanted to make it 12, i said, so raise. Now, i was not making him do anything, i was simply asking him because of his history of being not so straightforward, if you will, also letting the other players at the table know what was going on (without just downright busting him out in front of everyone), and maybe stopping him from doing it again. It was a pretty situational incident, and as for reading a rule book, ive been in the business for 8 years, and yes rules are important. But, until you've been in this business, shut your mouth, your probably an 18 year old little kid whos played some internet poker, and you have no idea that even though there are rules in the B&M world, its really a judgement call on the floors decision, and we're not always right

You got this wrong. There is no judgement call here.

[acesup85 0]

Well let me start by saying this. The first thing i asked him when the action got to him was, you wanted to raise right, he said yes. Now this player has been known to shoot angles, or take shots, on more than one occasion. So when he said yes i wanted to raise, but i wanted to make it 12, i said, so raise. Now, i was not making him do anything, i was simply asking him because of his history of being not so straightforward, if you will, also letting the other players at the table know what was going on (without just downright busting him out in front of everyone), and maybe stopping him from doing it again. It was a pretty situational incident, and as for reading a rule book, ive been in the business of getting things wrong for 8 years, and yes rules are important. But, until you've been in this business, shut your mouth, your probably an 18 year old little kid whos played some internet poker, and you have no idea that even though there are rules in the B&M world, its really a judgement call on the floors decision, and we're not always right

Let me just tell you something mr. quick to judge. I've grown up around the game and although I may only be 21, i do know a lot about playing in B&M rooms. The fact that you are getting all defensive means you know you made a mistake. You were pressuring him into raising by asking if he wanted to raise. You can't just add in extra information onto the posts way later to make yourself look decent. Stop making judgments and stick to the book.