interesting lederer gossip

[justblaze 0]

Howard is a Phish Phan, he is a peaceful guy!

actualy, he's a dead head, not that the lot of people here would know the difference

maybe not a lot, but some. The difference is deadheads like acid and phans like nitrous/molly

[Lord Ben 0]

George Bush rigged the elections with the help of party poker! Dude, I think you need a tinfoil hat.Is GWB a big hairy stupid monkey? Or so brilliant that nearly every intelligence service in the world believed the evidence he so carefully planted? You liberals need to make up your mind.That being said Poker is illegal in the vast majority of the US. So while they're probably nice guys and upstanding people, they are still willing to break the law. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being a gambling degenerate! Just don't get surprised when one runs an illegal bookie operation also.

[Diabolical 0]

hey "LORD ben", are you a repubican?

[AC BillP 0]

I don't think Kaplan or Regan got their facts straight. Last time I checked, running a sports book in Vegas wasn't illegal in Vegas, although it was well know that these places were shook down by Spiltro's Crew. They even showed the "Ant" making a "bookie" pay off a losing bet in Casino if I remember. Historically (per FBI-see the book Tony Accardo by an ex FBI ajent) Spilatro represented the Stardust, which was the first major Vegas book in a Casino and it WAS his job to threaten and/or see trumped up stuff leveled at the competion.Actually one of the bigger sports bookies on the East Coast was in the final tables of the 2004 Taj ESPN tournament just on TV-- kind of funny how he went out of his way to not be on the camera but couldn't hide the higher and higher he finished. For that reason I doubt Kaplan, as a NY/NJ player has his facts straight, as regards the old Mayfair and East Coast sports betting.Regardless I thought Mr. Lederer was now happily married to Susie of the old Bellagio Poker Room Management, had stopped (per Danial) playing in most high cash games, and now just counts his money while making appearances in free rolls and the bigger tournaments. Not exactly the retirement style of a criminal

[Lord Ben 0]

Well, there are criminals and then there are criminals. The bookie operation might not have had all it's permits in order or didn't pay taxes, even if bookies are legal in Vegas.

[Diabolical 0]

George Bush rigged the elections with the help of party poker! Dude, I think you need a tinfoil hat.Is GWB a big hairy stupid monkey? Or so brilliant that nearly every intelligence service in the world believed the evidence he so carefully planted? You liberals need to make up your mind.That being said Poker is illegal in the vast majority of the US. So while they're probably nice guys and upstanding people, they are still willing to break the law. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being a gambling degenerate! Just don't get surprised when one runs an illegal bookie operation also.

I'll put on a tin foil hat if you take off your blindfold. Stem cell research is illegal. Does that make it wrong?You said they are still willing to break the law. I assume "they" is poker players but what you totally miss, is "they" is anyone. Not just poker players. Thats like sayin only Blacks steal cars. Only irishman have drinking problems. Only jews have alot of money. And, according to you, Only poker players are shady and like to break the law. What evidence!!!!!! Most in the world were scared about Terrorism! Thats all he needed. The world felt, at the time, that something had to be done about AL Queda. He used this fear to settle a personal vendetta with saddam and at the same time, (cause republicans don't jus do things if there not goin to make any money) he made alot of other people rich by goin to war. Now, come into present time and you will hear from alot of nations who backed GWB back then and now realized they made a mistake.

[Lord Ben 0]

hey "LORD ben", are you a repubican?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%...n%22+republican This should tell you all you need to know. Short answer is yes, but the longer answer is that I spend more time campaigning against republicans than I do against democrats. Most of my political involvment and campaigning has been in primaries so I can get the best republican to run. After that I sort of hang back. I vote libertarian/republican, GWB isn't the best president for a fiscal conservative myself but I vote for him because of his strong showing on the War on Terror or whatever the buzzword is. He's doing a good job and gets my vote now. However I didn't vote for him in 2000, I voted for Harry Browne.

[srblan 0]

I don't think Kaplan or Regan got their facts straight. Last time I checked, running a sports book in Vegas wasn't illegal in Vegas, although it was well know that these places were shook down by Spiltro's Crew. They even showed the "Ant" making a "bookie" pay off a losing bet in Casino if I remember. Historically (per FBI-see the book Tony Accardo by an ex FBI ajent) Spilatro represented the Stardust, which was the first major Vegas book in a Casino and it WAS his job to threaten and/or see trumped up stuff leveled at the competion.Actually one of the bigger sports bookies on the East Coast was in the final tables of the 2004 Taj ESPN tournament just on TV-- kind of funny how he went out of his way to not be on the camera but couldn't hide the higher and higher he finished. For that reason I doubt Kaplan, as a NY/NJ player has his facts straight, as regards the old Mayfair and East Coast sports betting.Regardless I thought Mr. Lederer was now happily married to Susie of the old Bellagio Poker Room Management, had stopped (per Danial) playing in most high cash games, and now just counts his money while making appearances in free rolls and the bigger tournaments. Not exactly the retirement style of a criminal

Running a LICENSED sports book in Vegas is not illegal. You need to get the Nevada Gaming Control Board's permission if you want to run a legal one.

[Diabolical 0]

Ok, fair enough. You back GWB. But, it seems that your not full repulican cause you would vote another way. So let me ask you this. Since your not biased.Were you in favor a clinton being impeached? And why?

[AC BillP 0]

WHAT the HECK does the Republican Party, Clinton or Bush have to do with this tread on H. Lederer. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!Yes to run a Vegas Sports book you needed a CCC license and that was Lederer/Siedel's problem. All I was suggesting is getting a legal operation with a license may have been thought to be VERY unheathy if it was in competiton with the ones run by the Chicago Mob in those days.

[Lord Ben 0]

Ok, fair enough. You back GWB. But, it seems that your not full repulican cause you would vote another way. So let me ask you this. Since your not biased.Were you in favor a clinton being impeached? And why?

I think we're getting a little off-topic here. At the time I was in college and couldn't have cared less really (I started being politically aware after 911 and various local state issues). Reading back it was a dumb move for the republican party politically so in that respect I would not have been in favor of it since "we" lost senate/house seats during that time. However, it probably wasn't the wisest move to lie under oath for Clinton either. In an ideal world the President would be immune to sexual harasment and other "small" lawsuits while in office, especially if they happened a LONG time ago. And if he was under oath than the president should have just told the truth, apologized to those hurt, and asked to have a little bit of privacy in an otherwise public life. It was a bad situation for the nation to be in. Go after a president for lying about blowjobs? Or do we ignore the president lying under oath? Both are bad options IMHO.Anyhow, you seem like a decent sort so if you want to reply just make a post in the off-topic area and we can debate until the world freezes over (or until global warming kills us all, but that's another debate).Back on topic, I'm not saying Lederer is a bad guy, just that overly large portion of long-time poker players have probably engaged in less than legal activities over the years. This does not surprise me and I expect it.

[Diabolical 0]

yea, it's true that some poker players have engaged in illegal activity in the past. I have seen it myself. My point was that it happens everywhere. It happens in the wealthy and powerful circles also. I would venture that it happens "more" in those circles than it does in the poker world. So why drag out someone's shady past to make a point that we shouldn't give celeb poker players too much credibility as legitimate members of society. I can easily drag out dirt about what someone did who belongs to another circle in society. It's everywhere!!!!!!If i mention that Men "The Master" had a charity event after 911 for the victims families, i'm sure you could name a bunch of other important people who did the same. who's better. The one that rasied the most money? I think not. All had good intentions.Look on pokerstars and you will see that they raised alot of money for the Tsunami relief. All given by poker players. Did you see that on the news?No. But i bet if a known pro poker player crashes his car and kills someone, The conservatives would be all over it. Telling everyone to stay away from the casinos cause you'll end up like him.

[otnemem 0]

Otnemem wrote:Anything I'd write here would be pure speculation' date=' so I'll skip it, but I do think that the public who now see poker as a fully legitimized "sport" should be slightly more skeptical of the pseudo-celebrities that now comprise it.[/quote']

There are criminals in every profession. How many Hollywood celebs use to be in prison or did drugs. For that matter, how many are involved in illegal stuff as we speak and are caught up in speed or herion. Why should the "public" be skeptial about poker players? They have skeletons in there closet and so do you. How many priests are child molesters. Should everyone be "skeptical" about the Catholic church? (in my opinion, YES!, but you don't see that happening do you)George W. Bush rigged 2 elections, YES! TWO ELECTIONS, and he lied about the "weapons of masss destruction". But do you see him being impeached? NO. But we will impeach a president for getting a blow job. Yea, he lied about getting some head to the american people. BURN HIM!!!!The current president lied and because of his lie, thousands of people are dead or are in danger of dying!!! It goes to show that the Republicans are the ones in charge of this country. The Democrats are only around to make it "seem" like there is another choice and this country is Democratic. Don't get me wrong, I love this country. I'm American!!! First and foremost. When asked about my ethnicity, I say I was born here as well as my parents and there parents and there parents. But, I also know that the Government doesn't give two censored about me. They just want me to keep payin taxes. So i know i'm on my own if we get nuked and therefore i can't trust someone who will let me twist in the wind.Bottom line, there are shady people everywhere and every walk of life. Don't try to throw dirt at Poker players.This is the most horrendous analogy I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Purely spouting off nonsense and praying that it loops together and makes some sort of sense is not an argument. First of all, by saying that you do believe no priests should be trusted (I happen to agree with you) you've just labeled yourself a hypocrite. Do you understand? You're trying to make the point that there are creeps in every industry, and that poker players shouldn't be stereotyped and judged because of the nature of their profession. But before you can say that, you share that you don't believe priests should be trusted, based solely on their reputation.Secondly, what the **** does any of this have to do with my personal opinion of someone, based on things I've read? I'm not sharing any speculative information, but I can still form my own judgements of people. I happen to like the guy myself, but I was just stating that perhaps he's not the person many people assume he is.And lastly, let's not pretend that poker players are all angels and saints. I know they're not all criminals also, but I'd venture a guess that they have a more than their proper proportion of cheats and scumbags. Hey, Wall Streets got tons of them too. I don't think that's unfair to say.Next time you try to pose an argument, really sit back and read what you've written. Take a minute and think, "Does my argument really accomplish anything, or am I just stringing together a load of ignorant, unintelligible nonsenses that has no bearing on the reality or the conversation at hand.Oh, and by the way, if someone says there are lots of criminals in the poker world, this does not imply that said person thinks there aren't criminals in other professions, as per your argument.

[dynamic1 0]

There are criminals in every profession. How many Hollywood celebs use to be in prison or did drugs. For that matter, how many are involved in illegal stuff as we speak and are caught up in speed or herion. Why should the "public" be skeptial about poker players? They have skeletons in there closet and so do you.based on the show tilt, i think we can assume that even at the highest levels, there are unsavory characters.

[Vanillathunder 0]

To restate the obvious, it should be of no surprise that a gambler ran a booking operation or was associated by one.If you read up on your poker history, at least the history that gives you the fuller view, you'd find out interesting tidbits such as Pro players, *even some still playing today* have/were backed by mob money.Lederer has always been an unsettling figure to me, he's a guy that when you look at him, you know he's somewhat of a "mastermind". I always pictured him colored green with an enormous cranium like the criminal mastermind in "The Ambiguously Gay Duo".;)Anyways, the point is this... and I *hate* quoting this because I loathed the show, but on "Tilt" there was a speech by that Lowball guy about poker "getting legit" and how pots were chopped, collusion... etc. which illustrates the poker world well..Just because it's on TV doesn't mean it doesn't have its fair share of criminality... ****, look at horse racing, arguably the worst "sport" there is for crime... Baseball has players BETTING on their own sport!In the long run, it's no big deal and it certainly doesn't make Howard a bad poker player or person. He booked bets, I know a few bookies.. they're not all greasy coke heads who break arms, you know.

[TS Clark 0]

Otnemem wrote:Anything I'd write here would be pure speculation' date=' so I'll skip it, but I do think that the public who now see poker as a fully legitimized "sport" should be slightly more skeptical of the pseudo-celebrities that now comprise it.[/quote']

There are criminals in every profession. How many Hollywood celebs use to be in prison or did drugs. For that matter, how many are involved in illegal stuff as we speak and are caught up in speed or herion. Why should the "public" be skeptial about poker players? They have skeletons in there closet and so do you. How many priests are child molesters. Should everyone be "skeptical" about the Catholic church? (in my opinion, YES!, but you don't see that happening do you)George W. Bush rigged 2 elections, YES! TWO ELECTIONS, and he lied about the "weapons of masss destruction". But do you see him being impeached? NO. But we will impeach a president for getting a blow job. Yea, he lied about getting some head to the american people. BURN HIM!!!!The current president lied and because of his lie, thousands of people are dead or are in danger of dying!!! It goes to show that the Republicans are the ones in charge of this country. The Democrats are only around to make it "seem" like there is another choice and this country is Democratic. Don't get me wrong, I love this country. I'm American!!! First and foremost. When asked about my ethnicity, I say I was born here as well as my parents and there parents and there parents. But, I also know that the Government doesn't give two censored about me. They just want me to keep payin taxes. So i know i'm on my own if we get nuked and therefore i can't trust someone who will let me twist in the wind.Bottom line, there are shady people everywhere and every walk of life. Don't try to throw dirt at Poker players.That was a fascinating segueway into the anti-Bush rant. Give yourself some extra points for degree of difficulty.

[srblan 0]

He booked bets, I know a few bookies.. they're not all greasy coke heads who break arms, you know.

True, some of them break legs.

[ChkDeezNuts 0]

Okay....just to be clear.....anybody that thinks that GWB rigged two elections....is well.....clearly mentally ill.

[21gambit 0]

Havent read alll of the posts yet, but I just wanted to say, Who cares if he ran a book making operation? It doesnt sound like a devious thing to me. Its actually just someone acting as an intermediary for people who want to wager on a sport, they take a vig and thats that.(provided they are able to set the points accurately and balance the bets they take in) Is this any worse than poker room/sites taking a rake for each hand of poker played?The only way in which it becomes devious in my eyes depends on the method in which they go about collecting from people who dont pay up.

[tskillz187 0]

Okay....just to be clear.....anybody that thinks that GWB rigged two elections....is well.....clearly mentally ill.

eek... I don't want to get into politics but he sure had some backers in the 2000 election. Heard some weird stuff about Ohio this election and theres been a large amount of sadiness with him. wanna know more bout why i feel this way, look here... http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

[skoal_dip 0]

Until Howard tries to hire an undercover cop to knock off his agent, he's alright in my books.[hockey fans will get it]

Funny you mentioned that, I actually played on the Jr. A team (Pembroke Lumber Kings) that Mike Danton owned, and his agent Dave Frost ran. I tell you, that Frost guy was a nut case, I can see why people want to have him killed. I have some bizzarre stories...

[ChkDeezNuts 0]

Okay....just to be clear.....anybody that thinks that GWB rigged two elections....is well.....clearly mentally ill.

eek... I don't want to get into politics but he sure had some backers in the 2000 election. Heard some weird stuff about Ohio this election and theres been a large amount of sadiness with him. wanna know more bout why i feel this way, look here...http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html

You have got to be kidding.....you are posting conspiracy theory sites now...... :?

[tskillz187 0]

the stuff written in there is true, carlyle group they dont exist? how come when the reports came out that 100,000 iraqi civilians have been killed 1 week before the elections it wasnt put in one paper in america? manufacturing consent, noam chomskey... is that just a crazy conspiracy? Are there not jobs for people in the FBI just for deleting specific things in the news for the general public... that stuff all happens man

[ChkDeezNuts 0]

the stuff written in there is true, carlyle group they dont exist? how come when the reports came out that 100,000 iraqi civilians have been killed 1 week before the elections it wasnt put in one paper in america? manufacturing consent, noam chomskey... is that just a crazy conspiracy? Are there not jobs for people in the FBI just for deleting specific things in the news for the general public... that stuff all happens man

You are certifiable.

[Diabolical 0]

Okay....just to be clear.....anybody that thinks that GWB rigged two elections....is well.....clearly mentally ill.

You must be republican. In ohio, they found machines that had 2000 votes pre-set for GWB and no one made a big deal about it. If that was set for a democrat, it would be grounds for a forfieture. I don't know how much money you make, or how much you benefit from having a Republican in office, but i have alot of "Republican, Pro Bush friends" who defend this obvious stupid man and his views. what I think is funny is that they don't make alot of money, (mabe under 50,000), and they are "commercials" for the Republican party. I don't know why but i'm sure the Reps are happy that they have some fool spouting there views and they don't even have to pay em.