gary21212121 0 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 EDIT: Please feel free to add more hands so we can look at different spots.. Thanksthere are so many times i get into tough spots early in SNG. So im going to post all the times i get AK early. If everyone would post there AK hands they get early in SNG that would be awesome.heres oneFull Tilt Poker Game #3863239725: $11 + $1 Sit & Go (Turbo) (29410890), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:23:00 ET - 2007/10/15Seat 1: TimboKing (1,440)Seat 2: Philmore Kant (1,440)Seat 3: Gary212121 (1,500)Seat 4: LussierA (1,500)Seat 5: Jaguarboy (1,500)Seat 6: toddyd31 (1,500)Seat 7: Tuan_505 (1,500)Seat 8: hassia (1,680)Seat 9: virus83 (1,440)Philmore Kant posts the small blind of 15Gary212121 posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Gary212121 [Kd Ah]LussierA calls 30Jaguarboy calls 30toddyd31 foldsTuan_505 foldshassia raises to 120virus83 foldsTimboKing foldsPhilmore Kant foldsGary212121 calls 90LussierA raises to 1,500, and is all inJaguarboy foldshassia foldsGary212121 folds Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 just adding this one cause its gayy...Full Tilt Poker Game #3863992784: $11 + $1 Sit & Go (Turbo) (29416171), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:59:19 ET - 2007/10/15Seat 1: RUNKS INC (2,867)Seat 2: J2ThaP (1,315)Seat 3: Gary212121 (1,455)Seat 5: Jaguarboy (1,450)Seat 6: The_Powers (1,618)Seat 7: corn gristle (1,620)Seat 8: Tijames (1,520)Seat 9: drew2500 (1,655)J2ThaP posts the small blind of 25Gary212121 posts the big blind of 50The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Gary212121 [Kd Ah]Jaguarboy foldsThe_Powers foldscorn gristle foldsTijames foldsdrew2500 foldsRUNKS INC raises to 200J2ThaP foldsGary212121 raises to 1,455, and is all inRUNKS INC calls 1,255Gary212121 shows [Kd Ah]RUNKS INC shows [Kc Jh]*** FLOP *** [4d 3d Jd]*** TURN *** [4d 3d Jd] [3s]*** RIVER *** [4d 3d Jd 3s] [8s]Gary212121 shows a pair of ThreesRUNKS INC shows two pair, Jacks and ThreesRUNKS INC wins the pot (2,935) with two pair, Jacks and Threes Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hand 1: Fold, I'm not interested in being on the wrong side of a flip for all my chips so early.Hand 2: Flat call and see a flop. I won't push with AK this early for the same reason as above. Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hand 1: Fold, I'm not interested in being on the wrong side of a flip for all my chips so early.Hand 2: Flat call and see a flop. I won't push with AK this early for the same reason as above.quility post... i agree 100%on the 2nd hand i almost flat called with the intentions of check shoving flop if i hit... the only problem is, do i have implied odds to call the raise... i.e. will he call of any chips if i do hit an A or K? Link to post Share on other sites
pdr87 0 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hand 2:AK is considered a monster-hand. Especially against a button-raiser. It's not really bad to reshove here, considering the fact that AK is best off seeing all five cards. But it might be most profitable to either 3x-reraise or simply flat call. If you flat call:Probe-bet any flop, with about 200 chips.If you 3x-reraise and get called:Check a blank flop, he's not going anywhere.If you 3x-reraise and he folds:Be happy. AK is not a made hand.Edit: A 3x-reraise commits you to the pot if he shoves on you. So open-shoving might be a better option if you don't want action from him. Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Hand 2:AK is considered a monster-hand. Especially against a button-raiser. It's not really bad to reshove here, considering the fact that AK is best off seeing all five cards. But it might be most profitable to either 3x-reraise or simply flat call. If you flat call:Probe-bet any flop, with about 200 chips.If you 3x-reraise and get called:Check a blank flop, he's not going anywhere.If you 3x-reraise and he folds:Be happy. AK is not a made hand.Edit: A 3x-reraise commits you to the pot if he shoves on you. So open-shoving might be a better option if you don't want action from him.I agree AK is a monster here vs. a button raise.... i also think shoving pre isnt that bad of an idea b.c. i could get called by a lot of worse hands....1. if i flat call pre i would normally check/fold the flop if i missed... i feel like throwing out 200 is going to get shoved on or flat called and im going to have to check fold the turn a lot... i jsut feel like that line is really spewy2 & 3--- i would never make it 3x here... im either going to flat call or shove b.c. raising to 3x is commiting me anyways and allows he to see the flop cheaper... i would rather get it all in pre Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 First of, in a SNG i will pretty much always re-raise with AK.Secondly, i will call someone all in if i raise and they shove, and pretty much most all ins unless i have reason to not.Thirdly, early on if i raise AK, make a continuation bet and get called, i will often move all in on the turn, you have a lot of fold equity, and a lot of the times in the middle stages of a SNG you will be left in a bad position if you lose the hand, especialy in turbos you should play your premium hands really hard and hope you come out ahead.And fourthly, if i raise AK and hit the flop, i will move all in if the pot is the size of my stack or just under. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Thirdly, early on if i raise AK, make a continuation bet and get called, i will often move all in on the turn, you have a lot of fold equity, and a lot of the times in the middle stages of a SNG you will be left in a bad position if you lose the hand, especialy in turbos you should play your premium hands really hard and hope you come out ahead.Wow, this strikes me as being super-aggressive. But is an unimproved AK on the turn still considered a premium hand when an opponent has called both your PF raise and CB? Aren't there also a lot of factors you need to take into account before making this kind of move? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well say like, the blinds are at 75/150 and i have 2000 behind, i raise to 450 i've got 1550 left, get one caller, the flop comes 492o he checks, i bet 1/3 the pot (it depends, i tend to bet smaller CBs in SNG because no one ever folds to them), he calls.In this situation, he's got a big big calling range of that flop, and a lot of those hands i can get to fold if i push on a blank turn, and if they call i can always suckout, by the turn i only have 1200 behind with a 150BB, if the chips around the table are such that i can place in the money, i'll probably give up on the hand, but if i'm going to be 5/5 if i fold, i'm more inclined to shovel and see what happens than hope i can pick up an all in worthy hand before i get anted away after i fold.In retrospect i'm an SNG idiot, but there you go. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well say like, the blinds are at 75/150 and i have 2000 behind, i raise to 450 i've got 1550 left, get one caller, the flop comes 492o he checks, i bet 1/3 the pot (it depends, i tend to bet smaller CBs in SNG because no one ever folds to them), he calls.In this situation, he's got a big big calling range of that flop, and a lot of those hands i can get to fold if i push on a blank turn, and if they call i can always suckout, by the turn i only have 1200 behind with a 150BB, if the chips around the table are such that i can place in the money, i'll probably give up on the hand, but if i'm going to be 5/5 if i fold, i'm more inclined to shovel and see what happens than hope i can pick up an all in worthy hand before i get anted away after i fold.In retrospect i'm an SNG idiot, but there you go. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (it depends, i tend to bet smaller CBs in SNG because no one ever folds to them)Chicken or the egg...maybe nobody folds to your CBs because you bet too small... Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 hand 1 re-raise and call, hand 2 is fine, what's the problem?basically, don't ever fold AK preflop in a turbo stt. Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 hand 1 re-raise and call, hand 2 is fine, what's the problem?basically, don't ever fold AK preflop in a turbo stt.i totally disagree with this statement... 100% of it Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 i totally disagree with this statement... 100% of itok. why'd you post then? Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 ok. why'd you post then?huh??? b.c. there are a lot more options other then all in or fold... saying never fold AK in a turbo SNG is horrible advice, in my opinion. Nothing against you, i just think there are many times you shouldnt play AK early in a SNG, or at least not for all your chips Link to post Share on other sites
AbsolutKnuts 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I guess it all depends on your perception of the other players, which i know is hard this early in a sng. AK is a hand with monster potential when played correctly against the right players. Raise preflop yes, but pushing/calling all-in pre flop against a player you have no read on i dont think is a good idea because it's going to be a coin flip at best. IMO its a hand you want to see a flop with against an unknown opponent and if you hit the flop or sense weakness then be aggressive otherwise its a hand you can still get away from. But having said that i prefer to play post flop rather than pre flop anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
HijackedAffairs 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 They are both fine. With the first one, folding is fine because you haven't risked that much. I can't fault calling either. The second one is good too, blinds are high enough that you need to get moving. Not to mention you are getting good value as you got KJ to call. Flat calling sucks OOP, frankly. Well-played all around. Jmberslin, your advice is too weak. When you have KJ calling all-in, you are hardly in a "coin-flip" situation. Lots of value being given up by flat calling out of position. Link to post Share on other sites
gary21212121 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 hand 1 re-raise and call, hand 2 is fine, what's the problem?basically, don't ever fold AK preflop in a turbo stt.i guess i should have given reasons for my first responce...hand 1-- what range of hands do you believe tthe villian is shoving?? are we ever dominating him/ are we ever dominated??hand 2-- i agree Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Jmberslin, your advice is too weak. When you have KJ calling all-in, you are hardly in a "coin-flip" situation. Lots of value being given up by flat calling out of position.That's results-based thinking. Calling the push-reraise w/ KJ is a terrible play and you can't expect to get a call from such a hand by pushing back. I think a much more likely outcome is that you'll either take the pot (which isn't bad at all) or you'll get called by a med-high PP and be on the wrong side of a coinflip.I just don't see a reason to put all your chips in the middle with AK without a decent read on your opponent unless you're in a position where you need to put all your chips in. I don't think pushing is a bad play, it's just a play that I wouldn't make here. Link to post Share on other sites
HijackedAffairs 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 That's results-based thinking. Calling the push-reraise w/ KJ is a terrible play and you can't expect to get a call from such a hand by pushing back. I think a much more likely outcome is that you'll either take the pot (which isn't bad at all) or you'll get called by a med-high PP and be on the wrong side of a coinflip.I just don't see a reason to put all your chips in the middle with AK without a decent read on your opponent unless you're in a position where you need to put all your chips in. I don't think pushing is a bad play, it's just a play that I wouldn't make here.Being OOP you need to take advantage of the value of AK preflop in turbos. You don't need to play post flop with it. Flop comes 379 and you are forced either into making a very awkward donk bet or check-folding. Calling ranges here have several you dominate and only a few you are way behind. You are correct that KJ shouldn't be in that range, but AJ and AQ are. Add that to fold equity and it makes pushing by far the best play. You're fear of getting into coinflips, especially when the fold equity of a push is so high, is irrational. Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 i guess i should have given reasons for my first responce...hand 1-- what range of hands do you believe tthe villian is shoving?? are we ever dominating him/ are we ever dominated??hand 2-- i agreehis range definitely includes worse aces down to AJ, probably lower, and against the rest of his range, you're racing with a nice overlay, making it a hugely +EV call. occasionally a player will show up with AA/KK here, but in general, most players try to do something stupid like min re-pop with hands that strong, so you can skew his range towards AK/AQ/AJ/QQ-88. i guarantee that no top sng player would advocate folding in hand 1. Link to post Share on other sites
cheesies 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 This is an 11$ turbo. The play will be horrible - you almost never have reason to fold ak preflop in these games. You'll get called by/be calling allin against AT+, KQ+, and most PPs. Sure you'll be flipping sometimes, and the odd time you'll be dominated, but the amount of time you'll be dominating more than makes up for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Saying all in with AK is a coinflip at best in any kind of SNG is just wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Fluke 0 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 My only question is, why are we smooth calling preflop with AK in hand 1?AK plays better heads up then in a multi-way pot, so unless you were 'slow playing' AK to try and get more chips in the middle (which the all-in accomplished) whats the point in calling?I re-raise to about 400 give or take a little, to try and get it heads up with the raiser, then when the all-in comes back at you, you're getting 3.5 to 1 to call.And it's true, the range that is all in here, in a low limit SNG is much broader than most of you have stated. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now