ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Supposing you're playing someone who raises nearly every hand (tosses away maybe 2 hands out of 10) preflop HU. What should your cutoff on what hands to play be? I'll play: any pair, any two paints (k10, jq, etc), any suited cards. It occured to me:A. I might be getting in with some bad suited hands (94 hearts preflop, is that something I should toss?)B. I might be tossing some non-suited hands away I should play (89, should I try this on?)Does anyone know of a list of the hands preflop HU and their chance to win? Thanks, and sorry if this is posted before, but I didn't see anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Using hand ranking charts and guidelines of that sort seem to be a waste of time in HU. So much of it is about feel. If you think he's raising too much preflop, raise him back with some trashier hands. Play more hands in position and play more aggressively. If he has no regard for position and just bets, bets, bets then you need to look to trap a little bit. Ask anyone, top pair is the nuts in HU! Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Using hand ranking charts and guidelines of that sort seem to be a waste of time in HU. So much of it is about feel. If you think he's raising too much preflop, raise him back with some trashier hands. Play more hands in position and play more aggressively. If he has no regard for position and just bets, bets, bets then you need to look to trap a little bit. Ask anyone, top pair is the nuts in HU!I like a player who thinks aggression is just betting the pot preflop almost every hand because they run into my best hands, bluffing themselves to a rebuy. So, if I luck into more of those players, I'm looking to tighten up my preflop game by making sure I call with the right hands and drop the less valuable ones. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Stop overvaluing suited cards.Being suited only adds a little value to a hand. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Stop overvaluing suited cards.Being suited only adds a little value to a hand.yes, this occured to me, thus the threadso, what sort of hands do i drop and what do i play Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q6s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,53s+,43s,A2o+,K5o+,Q9o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o,54o^^That's about as wide as your calling range should possibly be, depending on your opponent.22+,A2s+,K6s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,87s,A2o+,K7o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T8o+,98o^^That's a reasonable calling range against a less aggressive opponent.These are just examples of how you should allow your range to open. Don't take these as gospel, because every opponent is different, and every hand is different. Sometimes he will minraise, and you can call with almost any two cards. Sometimes he'll raise to 12xbb and you can only call with premium hands.EDIT: If you want to see those ranges more 'visually', download pokerstove at www.pokerstove.com Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Supposing you're playing someone who raises nearly every hand (tosses away maybe 2 hands out of 10) preflop HU. What should your cutoff on what hands to play be? I'll play: any pair, any two paints (k10, jq, etc), any suited cards. It occured to me:A. I might be getting in with some bad suited hands (94 hearts preflop, is that something I should toss?)B. I might be tossing some non-suited hands away I should play (89, should I try this on?)Does anyone know of a list of the hands preflop HU and their chance to win? Thanks, and sorry if this is posted before, but I didn't see anything.Don't play HU if you need a list of starting hands. Just don't. K? Thx. Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 A bigger issue for you that is much larger then hand selection is:DONT HIT AND RUN FULL TILT REGULARS AT 10 20 NL HEADS UP AFTER THEY HAD THE DECENTLY TO TALK TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE ON THE RAIL FOR 4 HOURS, AND RIGHT AFTER YOU GET A SET VS TOP 2 PAIR. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 ATCAgainst an aggressor I three bet (or call-raise from the button) any baby ace, baby king, suited connector, or pp 9's or lower.All other garbage hands I call to see a flop. HU play is veeeeeeery different, and the tighter pf players usually lose :)With premium hands I split them 50/50 on three betting and flat calling. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 A bigger issue for you that is much larger then hand selection is:DONT HIT AND RUN FULL TILT REGULARS AT 10 20 NL HEADS UP AFTER THEY HAD THE DECENTLY TO TALK TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE ON THE RAIL FOR 4 HOURS, AND RIGHT AFTER YOU GET A SET VS TOP 2 PAIR.i've already responded to your claim via pm which you didn't respond to. since you want to make this public, I'll respond here:A. I told you I was leaving before the hand.B. I told you I was leaving DURING the hand. I stayed a couple more hands after the hand because you were freaking out.C. You edited out any of these statements in your blog. Here's what you said happened: http://ihaveastrong9.blogspot.com/2007/10/so-tilted.html Here's the full hand history, with conversation: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1553142Note: "Hero : ok last hand for a bit" postflopAfter taking a phone call, I even returned to play a few more hands because you were still losing it so bad. I'm disappointed you got so angry because I enjoyed watching and talking with you, but I'm not going to feel bad enough I'll join you in a game over my head again, especially when you're acting like such a jerk over this. Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I absolutely don't want to get in the middle of that ^^^but for a newbie poker player, what's the big deal about someone getting up after they won? If I win a big pot and feel like walking away cause I'm ahead, I don't think it should be a problem...I don't feel like I owe someone the chance to get their money back. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 HU Players:Hit and runs are irrelevent... deal with them if you decide to play HU... Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 HU Players:Hit and runs are irrelevent... deal with them if you decide to play HU...Or just play a HU SNG where they can't run... Link to post Share on other sites
danc1984 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I think the biggest issue is that you are playing roberts at 10/20 and you have posted a topic asking for advice on HU hand selection. No offence but I am pretty sure that if you are asking question like these you should not be playing at these stakes against these players. Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I think the biggest issue is that you are playing roberts at 10/20 and you have posted a topic asking for advice on HU hand selection. No offence but I am pretty sure that if you are asking question like these you should not be playing at these stakes against these players.he already said he was over his head when he played the guy. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 A bigger issue for you that is much larger then hand selection is:DONT HIT AND RUN FULL TILT REGULARS AT 10 20 NL HEADS UP AFTER THEY HAD THE DECENTLY TO TALK TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE ON THE RAIL FOR 4 HOURS, AND RIGHT AFTER YOU GET A SET VS TOP 2 PAIR.This is why I went to HU tourneys instead of HU cash. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 I think the biggest issue is that you are playing roberts at 10/20 and you have posted a topic asking for advice on HU hand selection. No offence but I am pretty sure that if you are asking question like these you should not be playing at these stakes against these players.andromeda already pointed out that i knew i was over my head, but the reason i'm looking for hand selection help is because i'd like to refine my choices and toss out a couple suited hands and bring in some unsuited hands for more money. Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 i've already responded to your claim via pm which you didn't respond to. since you want to make this public, I'll respond here:A. I told you I was leaving before the hand.B. I told you I was leaving DURING the hand. I stayed a couple more hands after the hand because you were freaking out.C. You edited out any of these statements in your blog. Here's what you said happened: http://ihaveastrong9.blogspot.com/2007/10/so-tilted.html Here's the full hand history, with conversation: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1553142Note: "Hero : ok last hand for a bit" postflopAfter taking a phone call, I even returned to play a few more hands because you were still losing it so bad. I'm disappointed you got so angry because I enjoyed watching and talking with you, but I'm not going to feel bad enough I'll join you in a game over my head again, especially when you're acting like such a jerk over this.No matter what way you spin your story and try to somehow make me look like the bad guy, hitting and running in heads up cash games is TERRIBLE etiquette. The worst part is by far is that i thought you actually understood this because you watched me that whole night, saw that guy jonstermonster hit and run me 5 or 6 times, and agreed with me that hitting and running was unethical and classless. i think thats the part that got me, and i wouldn't be so angry if i hadn't been so accommodating to you that whole night only to watch you do hit and run me like every other person does. Also, I wouldn't have even been that mad if you had sat out after your last hand and talked for a bit and said you were done. You just instant left without saying anything. So don't make me look like the fu.cking bad guy here, and try to learn from this and don't hit and run people at heads up cash games, especially if they had the decency to talk with you all night when you were on the rail. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 No matter what way you spin your story and try to somehow make me look like the bad guy, hitting and running in heads up cash games is TERRIBLE etiquette.It's why I prefer live poker. You cannot leave a table unless you don't come back for two hours. It virtually eliminates hit and run poker. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Also, I wouldn't have even been that mad if you had sat out after your last hand and talked for a bit and said you were done.I would've enjoyed that, given I was looking for your thoughts on my play and was logging the hands to talk them over with you afterwards. However, you were really losing your mind, calling me scum, and being really angry once I sat out. Would we have had a good conversation at that point? I really don't have anything against you, I think you were a nice guy and probably still are. Hopefully you can let this go.edit: and I don't know how good your memory is. I sat out, took a phone call, talked to you, and played a few more hands before I left. Meanwhile, I'm being ragged on for hitting and running the entire time. Why would you expect anyone to stay and play when you become so abusive? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'm not taking sides either way here, cause hitting and running sucks when you're one of the players who's sitting there with no intention of leaving.The fact of the matter is that it's part of the game. If someone sits down and wins big, they can leave and you can't do anything about it. They're not obligated to stick around and risk losing the money back that they just won. I have done it many times and lost back part of the money when I really had no intention of staying much longer, but I felt like I didn't want to be the bad guy and take the money and run. Poker isn't about making friends and pleasing your opponent at the table. Some people trash talk to get an edge. Others do stuff that they know will annoy their opponents. Hitting and running can be one of thos things.I guess what I'm saying is that hitting and running isn't the best etiquette (it's not even close to the worst either) but it's really nothing to get that upset about. It doesn't say anything about anyone's character, it just sucks if it happens to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 It's why I prefer live poker. You cannot leave a table unless you don't come back for two hours. It virtually eliminates hit and run poker.You can come back to my casino in 30 minutes.On the internet, you can't return to that table for 30 minutes to an hour, without buying in for, at minimum, what you left with. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 You can come back to my casino in 30 minutes.On the internet, you can't return to that table for 30 minutes to an hour, without buying in for, at minimum, what you left with.In my casino, there's like ... 4 no limit games running. On the internet, there's like ... 4000 no limit games running. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Even more reason why hitting and running is entirely irrelavent. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Even more reason why hitting and running is entirely irrelavent.Really?I don't think I know anyone that is okay with hitting and running. I think your point is that there is always another game and in the longrun if you're +EV yada yada. It's still very poor form, and super easy to do online because you can hop into 15 other games at the same stakes with a smaller buyin. And, even if you are +EV it's super hard to never be down in a game, if someone might quit you anytime they are beating you it's almost impossible to beat them. Think DN v Dreamclown, Dreamclown would be hammering him and as soon as DN stormed back and got a little ahead he'd sit out. Live if you pull this junk, you have to leave, come back, get on a waiting list, get yelled at by the players, and if you build a reputation for this, the casino will not let you play. Link to post Share on other sites
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