Do You Ever Feel Like?

[HubDub04 0]

First off, this is NOT a bad beat post or anything like that. I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about poker and it's place in my life. I have also been talking to a ton of other insanely serious poker players whom I discuss hands with and talk strategy with about this following thought:I am a full time college student and I basically play poker for all of my money and have been able to do this for two years now without having a job. I have been able to buy all the things I wanted and pay off all of my bills in the process(due to somewhat bad bankroll management). I consider myself a very consistent LIVE cash game player at my home casino and all of the regular home games I play during the week. What I used to do, was go to the casino with 2k in my pocket, play for 10 hours or so, win a few buyins, pay my bills and buy stupid stuff (stuff for my numerous girlfriends in the past that I wish I would have never done) and be back to my original bankroll. Now this never was a big problem for me because I usually had solid game selection and could pick out the soft games and just run over the table, and I was able to do this consistently, turning myself into a consistent winner 7/10 times per session on average. I then started to realize that if I saved more of my winnings, lived more modestly, and continued to use what I have learned thus far with poker, I could have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands in the bank over time. So that's what I have been doing the last 9 months. Playing consistently, winning solid sums and protecting my profit, and when I have a losing session, minimizing my losses. (I have been playing online cash games and some tourneys for the convienience factor, but I really prefer live play for a few reasons, one being the Gov't's gayness on the topic)Now to the question. I have been running BAD the last 2 months. I mean really bad. Mike Matusow bad. As of 3 months ago, I had my cash game roll up to 25k. Now it's down to just short of 12k. This 13k loss has taken place in less than two months. I am really beginning to feel two things:1: I'm really happy I stayed in college and didn't drop out and concentrated on poker like a lot of young, successful guys tend to do.2: I really feel like there is TOO much luck involved in poker at times. I have felt like I could consistely make my living playing cards for the past 4 years now, but I have just hit my first REALLY rough patch and it has caused me to re-evaluate my stance on poker in my life.Do any of you guys (the successful players: JC, Hoosier, Looshle, Grinder, WhataRunAA,Daniel Negreanu, etc) ever get these types of feelings on poker in your life? I just don't want to be 35, have 2 kids, a wife, a house, tons of bills, and be going through something like this when I have more than myself to worry about.Any insight and better ways of thinking into this would be appreciated.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Well I'm not a pro, but it sounds like you need a break. Variance is a huge part of poker, and I've been gayed out of about 2k this week in CF at the final table. Take a break, chill, get drunk, bang your GF and have a good time.

[nutzbuster 7]

...Do any of you guysever get these types of feelings on poker in your life?

Me? ...No. Never, lol.I feel like quitting probably at least once a month. One thing I have learned is that running bad WILL kick everyone in the left nut sooner or later, and if you can't take it... get out. I am getting better with the bad beats, but not great with them yet (and I've been playing for 14 years). I'm pretty sure I am wired too emotionally for this sick game, but have yet to fully throw in the towel.Problem with me is...I never really go fully broke, so I keep wandering back in. :DegenwithaGovenrmentpensionforlifeface:

[Veener Schnitz 0]

It happens, it's part of the game. When you are winning and dominating you feel on top of the world and want to just keep playing. But when variance catches up and you hit a losing streak it really eats at you. Take a break for a week or two and don't even think about poker. Keep yourself occupied and take your mind off things and get a fresh start when you've cleared your mind and relaxed for a little while. GL!

[Cappy37 0]

I just don't want to be 35, have 2 kids, a wife, a house, tons of bills, and be going through something like this when I have more than myself to worry about.Any insight and better ways of thinking into this would be appreciated.

Wear them rubbers, or you could be worrying about all of that a lot sooner than 35.I'm only 29 and I got 2 kids, a fiance, a house, tons of bills, and spend a fair share of my free non-family time playing poker online. I'm lucky to have a job where I can actually play poker from work and post on FCP from work, so that is one blessing.To all of you 20somethings that have a shot at living the dream, go for it! You'll never forgive yourself if you do not give yourself an honest chance at it. Stay in school, but relish the freedom you have to play so much poker, to not be tied down, to do your own thing while you can.And if you want perspective on your "gambling problem", go down to a local bar and watch the blue hairs and truckers toss $20 bill after $20 bill into the video poker machines with little to no hope of ever breaking even, much less "winning". *That* will put your "gambling problem" into perspective in a hurry. You have a chance to earn a living/enjoy a profitable hobby free of nagging and overwhelming responsibility. Enjoy every second of it.

[troyomac 0]

The first thing you have to ask yourself is "why am I losing?"Are you getting your money in bad a lot?Are you adapting to the game as it changes and players are getting better, or are you playing the same as you always did because that's what worked?Are you practicing good bankroll management?Sometimes you may need to drop down limits even if you are rolled for higher, just to book some winning sessions and get your confidence up.Also if you are having these thoughts, chances are you're not feeling confident at the table, and you really really need to be confident.That stuff aside, take a week off, or 2 weeks, or even a month. Take whatever time you need to get yourself feeling good about your game again.

[Abbaddabba 0]

99% of these stories usually end up in confessions of losing online and winning live.cutting online out of the equation is an easy way of dealing with it.

[Mercury69 3]

You sound like a sensible, thoughtful person. Just keep reminding yourself of your concerns and you should be fine. Keeping yourself in check is a hard thing to do and it's important not to forget the things that make life important, like relationships, some measure of financial security and other non-poker related activities.Sure, take a break, but that won't remove the long-term variance swings. Step down a level or two and see if you still have a passion for the game (also good for BR management).

[WhatArunAA 0]

I feel your pain brother..I have already decided i'm going to finish up school in January..Playing pro has so many PROS and some CONS.. but overall I'm not sure I can do this the rest of my life. You said you lost alot of your roll living extravagently.. well what I'd recommend (checky recommended it to me) is to cash out just enough to live every week.. for me it is like 400 a week( I was aiming to cash out 1k a week and it made it awfully difficult to build my roll cuz I was spender Scott).. live or online.. and then put the rest towards your roll so you can play in higher games.. When I played with you at Poto before I knew who you were I knew you were the best player at the table.. set a goal for yourself.. whether it be a new house, new car,vacation.. etc... It will help you get focused on playing well again and give you an ends to the mean. If you put enough hours in and only cash out what you need( no more paying for stripper parties) then I have no doubt in my mind that you will be very successful...

[Ladi77 0]

Well, I am by no means a "Pro" but I've been playing poker since I was, like 8 years old. I can't say that I've ever been in your situation because I've never really considered playing poker full time. I have a great job that I love and am passionate about and playing poker has always been for fun and a way to make a little extra cash on the side. With anything you choose to get into, there are risks...I'm a detective and think about what could happen to me on the job all the time. Granted, you're really gambling with you and your family's income with playing poker so there is a lot more to loose. Because of my job, I always have a reliable source of income, which means I don't ever have to worry about lossing my bankroll in a sense because as long as I collect a pay check, I'll always have a way to relpenish it, if I should ever go broke (knock on wood ) So, poker is always just fun for me. From what I can see and from the people I know who play poker full time, you'll have highs and you'll have lows.Anyway, my point is maybe taking a break from poker for a while will be a good thing. I can understand how people can get burned out by it when they play all the time, especially when they hit the lows. If that doesn't seem to work, maybe try any other career for a while and keep playing poker on the side. Maybe you're bad luck and re-evaluating your stance on poker is coming from you really worrying about the financial issues in your life.Just my two-cents Ladi

[WhatArunAA 0]

oh and PS.. if you want to go to Vegas next month for like 2 weeks hit me up:)

[NoSup4U 0]

Poker has a ton of luck involved. Thats why bankroll mgt is the most important thing. If you don't blow money that you should be keeping in your bankroll to cover the bad times, you can fade the bad streaks. Good online players go on month long downswings/break even stretches. If you play live, just think how long that is for you...many months. OP, I know the downswings suck. I just try and take some time off, come back, spend a day just railing, thinking about my game, watching some CR videos, etc. Then come back slow. (meaning just play one or two tables and really think about everything. Maybe live, just drop down a level or two if possible) Get your confidence back.Mark

[BullsBugling 0]

99% of these stories usually end up in confessions of losing online and winning live.cutting online out of the equation is an easy way of dealing with it.

This is spot on for me. I am in exactly the same situation as the other guy has stated, but online is killing my confidence. I can not win, there is no tells as from what I can see and it seenms to be really waying on my patience when I play live. It's just so hard to stay away because I love the game so much and I can only play live once a week. This thread is really helping re-focus. No online, straight cash game, get back to my grove.Bulls

[nutzbuster 7]

To all of you 20somethings that have a shot at living the dream, go for it! You'll never forgive yourself if you do not give yourself an honest chance at it. Stay in school, but relish the freedom you have to play so much poker, to not be tied down, to do your own thing while you can.

Ugh...not a big fan of telling young folks to "go Pro" but I see what you're saying. However, graduating should remain as priority numero uno IMO. Also, a hard dose of honesty and reality checking would be very wise before making the poker leap. The sad reality is that many of these wanna be's think they are good enough to live off poker but maybe just don't have it. Relavent article I stole from Silky in another thread that speaks at this to some degree. It is a fantastic piece that EVERYONE should read... http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/17010I am amazed at the few here who are consistent winners and make a good living playing. Continued success to all of you. I can only hope to be that good some day. My situation is the good ol' "work and play recreationally" grinder. And it seems to be working for the most part, even though I would be much better if I could play more often. And many have written in the past about how they are pretty happy being solid Part Time pros, who balance traditional careers and playing recreationally successfully. I find that to be true too.Bottom line is, while playing poker for a living sounds great, and is great for some, having that College degree in your back pocket if your poker dreams crash is mega life insurance. You may never have another time in your life to have this much poker freedom, but you will also never have another time in your life to finish college so easily. The road is littered with folks who said they would go back and finish, but never did.

[WhatArunAA 0]

This is spot on for me. I am in exactly the same situation as the other guy has stated, but online is killing my confidence. I can not win, there is no tells as from what I can see and it seenms to be really waying on my patience when I play live. It's just so hard to stay away because I love the game so much and I can only play live once a week. This thread is really helping re-focus. No online, straight cash game, get back to my grove.Bulls

The reason for that is because Live poker is ALOT easier then online poker.

[Cappy37 0]

Ugh...not a big fan of telling young folks to "go Pro" but I see what you're saying. However, graduating should remain as priority numero uno IMO. Also, a hard dose of honesty and reality checking would be very wise before making the poker leap. The sad reality is that many of these wanna be's think they are good enough to live off poker but maybe just don't have it. Relavent article I stole from Silky in another thread that speaks at this to some degree. It is a fantastic piece that EVERYONE should read... http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/17010Bottom line is, while playing poker for a living sounds great, and is great for some, having that College degree in your back pocket if your poker dreams crash is mega life insurance. You may never have another time in your life to have this much poker freedom, but you will also never have another time in your life to finish college so easily. The road is littered with folks who said they would go back and finish, but never did.

That was my main point, too.. It took me 6 years to finish college, working full time and schooling part-time. No matter how hectic that schedule was, I had *boatloads* of free time compared to where I'm at now with kids and a mortgage. I remember on season 2 of high-stakes poker where the Mouth was moaning about running bad online and needing to play less and Mizrachi told him to "have some kids, you won't be playing any more poker online". Truer words have never been uttered.Never put your education on the backburner for poker, but realize that you can still take your shots while in school. You want to play poker for the sport of it and not to try and put food on the table. That's the luxary college affords you.

[Tugglife2 0]

There's some truly great insight and advice in this thread. I finished up my degree in August and am extremely happy that I did. I urge all student poker players to just finish up their degrees before making the big leap or letting the game totally consume you. It's too bad my degree (Sports Management) is useless as it's extremely difficult to find anything in my field that's not an $500 a month internship. For now I'm stuck working for peanuts at Border's Bookstore trying to pay bills and save up some money to get back into the game.

[BullsBugling 0]

The reason for that is because Live poker is ALOT easier then online poker.

Please explaing, and list things different things you would want to look for in an online game.BullsBugling

[HubDub04 0]

I really appreciate all of this insight guys.I think i'm gonna take a couple weeks off from all poker play, live and online and try and get a few rounds of golf in inbetween my classes.

[drcossack 0]

I think i'm gonna take a couple weeks off from all poker play, live and online and try and get a few rounds of golf in inbetween my classes.

It really works. I did the same for end of July-beginning of September, and it was awesome not playing for a month. I'm in my senior year, so I don't get to play much, but that's fine with me - that's what fall/thanksgiving/winter break are for. Besides, I'll have plenty of time this summer to play, and I won't have to worry about classes anymore.Also, one thing that I've found helpful is to switch to a different game or learn a new one. Learn Stud, Omaha, 2-7, or one of the split-pot games. IMO, Limit is less stressful than NLHE (plus the players are just as bad)

[fitzinabox 0]

I really appreciate all of this insight guys.I think i'm gonna take a couple weeks off from all poker play, live and online and try and get a few rounds of golf in inbetween my classes.

good idea, but you should make an exception for the neg-o... you should play in that.

[drcossack 0]

good idea, but you should make an exception for the neg-o... you should play in that.

No, he shouldn't. lol.I've been there - taking a break = taking a break.Some other advice: Don't even log into a poker forum. Spend time w/friends, family, watch a movie, play some sports, play some video games, etc.

[pezeveng 207]

bankroll should be kept as bankroll for times like this. Bills yes other stuff no way. I pay my house bills every month with my sports winnings and keep the rest as bankroll. A persons mindset and play changes when there bankroll shrinks.In sportsbooks all of a sudden you start playing favourites and pay a chalk on every game you bet happy to make 30% instead of taking that dog you really liked that paid 130%. No different in poker you start waiting for the nuts or close to it, no more bluffing and rarely calling bluffs even though you know your opponent is stealing. Your game changes without you even realizing. Money breads confidence.

[Ex_Matt 0]

Sounds like me when I first started playing. I had a job but I only maintained one shift a week for about a year, the rest of my income came from poker games. I never got into big stakes, just grinding .25 / .50 NL ONE TABLE AT A TIME. I'd never keep a roll online, just cash out cheques every month and bonus whore the next. My profit got up to about 1500 with 0 debt on my credit card.1 Year later my CC was maked out at 2600 and stayed there for a few months. I had to get part time jobs to get money so I could still grind the live cash games and kept enough coming in so I could play low buy in tourneys / satellites w/e. September was my best month of poker ever which cleared all my debt and gave me more cash than I ever had. So I'm not gonna say ride out the slump cause it'll come to an end, cause I never felt like mine would come to an end. (when you slump for 15months playing no higher than 1/2, you feel like it'll never end). But if you're not gonna play dont let the slumping effect your decision making.I'm still not getting back into poker even after my good september. . . I gotta let it set in and begin to value money again. (I got the worst BR management ever)