5-10 Nl Heads Up

[Acid_Knight 2]

He is A5.I think c/c that turn is vvvvvvv marginal. C/R river would be correct, IMO, I think Roberts agrees to that.

It is marginal, but it also varies directly with how much the villain has been floating him.

[tskillz187 0]

It is marginal, but it also varies directly with how much the villain has been floating him.

Agree, does this hand change your thought process on the hand in OP though?

[Acid_Knight 2]

Agree, does this hand change your thought process on the hand in OP though?

So, does Roberts have the 88 or the other hand?

[Roberts2003 0]

So, does Roberts have the 88 or the other hand?

no i am the villain in the 88 hand. results to come laterrrrr.

[Scott3705 0]

checks. and probably call a river bet.

[Acid_Knight 2]

no i am the villain in the 88 hand. results to come laterrrrr.

So, the Hero (with 88) probably views the villain as a bit of a station from the A5 hand. Unless the villain thinks that he'll be able to outplay the hero (and hero knows of these intentions) with only 1 PSB left, then I think that the Hero with 88 should be done with the hand becuase it's pretty ballsy to try and be bluffing through this hand when you're as shallow as you are and are OOP.

[Acid_Knight 2]

checks. and probably call a river bet.

expecting the villain to showdown what exactly?

[tskillz187 0]

I think 88 calls a shove more often on the flop than he does calling on another street, or going all in himself.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think 88 calls a shove more often on the flop than he does calling on another street, or going all in himself.

Agreed. I'd be very tempted to call a shove on the flop with 88 and would probably do it a decent % of the time. Once he flats that flop though, I think i'm done with it.

[Scott3705 0]

expecting the villain to showdown what exactly?

i had something written behind that. Don't know where it went.basically saying checking and looking for cheapshowdown, possibly calling if i think villian wants to turn his hand into a bluff. (If we have air, we bet the next street, if we're scared, we check to him)I still am not so easily inclined to be done with the hand here though. There's a lot to feel in a HU game, but this just seems so over-aggro/stuborn.stubborn in that he coldcalls the 3 bet with worse pairs. I think the 9 just gets it in, doesn't smooth call.i don"t know.... I'm more worried about a trapping pair here probably, but i just still think we're good.

[danc1984 0]

How awesome was the dude's trash talking after this hand? I thought it was awesome. I especially liked "man, i thought i was playing someone legit.."

[mtdesmoines 2]

Okay, the two players involved in this hand are both winning players, both at the tail-end of a bad day. The villain has run hot during this session and hasn't rebought.The hero has been very aggressive, raising and re-raising. The villain has played back a few times (either by bet-raising or check-raising), but folded when the hero went back over the top. The hero aggressively pushed his stack up to about 2500 when the villain got sticky with bottom pair that turned into a river aces-up to beat the hero's turned two-pair.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$102 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $1457BB: $4269Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with 8 8 Hero raises to $30, BB calls.Flop: 3 9 9 ($60, 2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $60, BB raises to $210, Hero raises to $520, BB calls.Turn: T ($1100, 2 players)BB checks, Hero...?

I think I'm done with the hand when my rebump on the flop gets called. Our PF raise wasn't enough to define what either us or the villain is working with here. Problem is that we're almost committed because of our re raise on the flop. Anyway, what to do at the turn .... it's either check behind or shove. I prefer check behind but that only means villain is shoving on the river. Please let it be an 8.

[Roberts2003 0]

How awesome was the dude's trash talking after this hand? I thought it was awesome. I especially liked "man, i thought i was playing someone legit.."

yeah, i was stunned. the thing is, i had heard he was an real good player. im not sure if he is that, but he definitely knows what he is talking about on 2+2 a lot of the time, which is why it actually did kind of bother me some of the stuff he was saying. If some random shortstacker bi.tches after a session, it means nothing but he isnt that so i dunno. Although I think it was mostly that he misread my hand so bad that he took it out on me, still not sure.results are i had A9, and snap called his shove on the turn. He then literally ranted for at least 20 minutes about how awful I was.

[danc1984 0]

yeah, i was stunned. the thing is, i had heard he was an real good player. im not sure if he is that, but he definitely knows what he is talking about on 2+2 a lot of the time, which is why it actually did kind of bother me some of the stuff he was saying. If some random shortstacker bi.tches after a session, it means nothing but he isnt that so i dunno. Although I think it was mostly that he misread my hand so bad that he took it out on me, still not sure.results are i had A9, and snap called his shove on the turn. He then literally ranted for at least 20 minutes about how awful I was.

His ramblings just didn't make any sense. He kept on saying how badly you played the hand without providing any justification whatsoever. Ridiculous.

[tskillz187 0]

His ramblings just didn't make any sense. He kept on saying how badly you played the hand without providing any justification whatsoever. Ridiculous.

I think he thought Roberts played it so much like a 9 that it couldn't possibly be a 9 and he was angry about it. I literally watched like 3 hands so I have no history if Roberts was up all those buyins off of him. I'm fairly sure he is a solid regular. He was def acting like a tool though and I think he was mad because IMO he shouldn't have stacked off there. I thought you played it the only way he could get away from it, and that's why I think he was so mad.

[Naismith 0]

Roberts set him up pretty well by check-raising a few times and folding to his re-raises. The guy had the pedal all the way to the floor. When Roberts said he had A9, I said, "I have no idea what to do here since you've folded every other time". Basically, I felt like a call or a fold made the 9 obvious.The guy ranting and raving was just hilarious.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Roberts set him up pretty well by check-raising a few times and folding to his re-raises. The guy had the pedal all the way to the floor. When Roberts said he had A9, I said, "I have no idea what to do here since you've folded every other time". Basically, I felt like a call or a fold made the 9 obvious.The guy ranting and raving was just hilarious.

Does anyone have the ranting and raving, I think it'd be funny to read.As for the hand, shoving gives him a chance to think that you're just finally taking a stand against him and allows him to make the call with 88 and actually be good a decent % of the time because you'll be bluffing. With the flat call, OOP, you basically HAVE to have a hand here and he has to realize that he's totally dead with the 88.

[tskillz187 0]

Does anyone have the ranting and raving, I think it'd be funny to read.As for the hand, shoving gives him a chance to think that you're just finally taking a stand against him and allows him to make the call with 88 and actually be good a decent % of the time because you'll be bluffing. With the flat call, OOP, you basically HAVE to have a hand here and he has to realize that he's totally dead with the 88.

You're getting worse at poker because you are giving him the exact same argument I have given Naismith all day.The ranting was a whole bunch of "LOL." "I thought you were legit" "Come tell everyone when you're on your huge "downswing" because I'm predicting it now" Roberts: What did I do wrong?"LOL. I can't tell you that, gawd you're awful"for 20 minutes.

[Naismith 0]

There was a ton more than this, but this is what Roberts posted on 2+2.aejones: that's so badDealer: aejones shows two pair, Nines and EightsDealer: IHaveAStrong9 shows three of a kind, NinesDealer: IHaveAStrong9 wins the pot ($2,913.50) with three of a kind, Ninesaejones: man, i thought i was playing someone legitaejones: nhDealer: Hand #3741274329Dealer: IHaveAStrong9 has 5 seconds left to actIHaveAStrong9: ?Dealer: Hand #3741274329 has been canceledaejones: nothin gnvmIHaveAStrong9: are you jokingaejones: ggaejones: no manIHaveAStrong9: how is that baddanc1984 (Observer): lolIHaveAStrong9: bad that my hand wasnt worse then 88?aejones: lolaejones: i'm not going to tell youdanc1984 (Observer): LOLaejones: well playedaejones: whole sessionaejones: very well palyed

[Acid_Knight 2]

There was a ton more than this, but this is what Roberts posted on 2+2.aejones: that's so badDealer: aejones shows two pair, Nines and EightsDealer: IHaveAStrong9 shows three of a kind, NinesDealer: IHaveAStrong9 wins the pot ($2,913.50) with three of a kind, Ninesaejones: man, i thought i was playing someone legitaejones: nhDealer: Hand #3741274329Dealer: IHaveAStrong9 has 5 seconds left to actIHaveAStrong9: ?Dealer: Hand #3741274329 has been canceledaejones: nothin gnvmIHaveAStrong9: are you jokingaejones: ggaejones: no manIHaveAStrong9: how is that baddanc1984 (Observer): lolIHaveAStrong9: bad that my hand wasnt worse then 88?aejones: lolaejones: i'm not going to tell youdanc1984 (Observer): LOLaejones: well playedaejones: whole sessionaejones: very well palyed

ShipShipMcGippYou're playing quality 2+2ers HU why?

[Roberts2003 0]

Not just in this hand, but in general, the whole reason to play fastplay a hand and play it straight forward vs good players is so they cant put you on that hand. So I am thinking as the hand goes on what he is thinking, and how he can't possibly think that I have a 9 here. So level wise, I am either 1 level ahead, or 1 level behind lol. Pick either one, although I am a huge fish so its probably the 1 level behind.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Not just in this hand, but in general, the whole reason to play fastplay a hand and play it straight forward vs good players is so they cant put you on that hand. So I am thinking as the hand goes on what he is thinking, and how he can't possibly think that I have a 9 here. So level wise, I am either 1 level ahead, or 1 level behind lol. Pick either one, although I am a huge fish so its probably the 1 level behind.

The one thing that I've learned from reading the HS 2p2 threads is that so many of the hands at those limits, it's all about if you're on the right level or not. Some people are constantly using 3rd or 4th level thinking and they assume that their opponent is acting the same, when in fact, their opponent might be jumping back and forth constantly between the lower levels, c/cing when a c/r is assumed and so on. It's a fun game to play, but if you're one level off on your thinking when you're reading their hand, you get it 100% wrong.I mentioned before though, in this hand, due to the stack sizes, calling the flop 3 bet totally gives your hand away. You're OOP and you don't have a lot of money left. Basically, the flat call just means that you have to have a hand here like 90% of the time and any hand that you're flatting that 3rd bet with is gonna be better than his 88 with the exception of the 5 or 10% of the time that you get totally out of line with 44-77. I think if you had the hand to play over again, shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>calling.

[Roberts2003 0]

The one thing that I've learned from reading the HS 2p2 threads is that so many of the hands at those limits, it's all about if you're on the right level or not. Some people are constantly using 3rd or 4th level thinking and they assume that their opponent is acting the same, when in fact, their opponent might be jumping back and forth constantly between the lower levels, c/cing when a c/r is assumed and so on. It's a fun game to play, but if you're one level off on your thinking when you're reading their hand, you get it 100% wrong.I mentioned before though, in this hand, due to the stack sizes, calling the flop 3 bet totally gives your hand away. You're OOP and you don't have a lot of money left. Basically, the flat call just means that you have to have a hand here like 90% of the time and any hand that you're flatting that 3rd bet with is gonna be better than his 88 with the exception of the 5 or 10% of the time that you get totally out of line with 44-77. I think if you had the hand to play over again, shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>calling.

i agree with you, but at the same time, he knows this right? so therefore, level wise speaking, if i flat call, he would think, "wow, if he had a 9, he should have shoved. theres no way he has a 9 here then, i thought he was legit. **** it, im shoving the turn for value. don't mess with aejones."

[Acid_Knight 2]

i agree with you, but at the same time, he knows this right? so therefore, level wise speaking, if i flat call, he would think, "wow, if he had a 9, he should have shoved. theres no way he has a 9 here then, i thought he was legit. **** it, im shoving the turn for value. don't mess with aejones."

Yeah, that's true. I mean, really the only thing that I think is wrong with flat calling is that you'd never do it without a hand, right? I mean, with the awkward stack sizes, it'd be a really nutso play to flat there without some kind of hand. So, whether you have a 9 or not isn't totally the point, it's just that if you shove, at least you can have air of some type, but if you're flatting the 3 bet, it's so unlikely that you don't have some made hand already.That's the whole thing with the higher stakes players, especially with history between one another is that it's like "well, he knows that i know that he knows....." and if you stop one step too early or go one too far, you lose. I mean, don't get me wrong, you played the hand great, but what other hands would you ever flat call taht 3 bet with? I'll be that there aren't many.

[Roberts2003 0]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, really the only thing that I think is wrong with flat calling is that you'd never do it without a hand, right? I mean, with the awkward stack sizes, it'd be a really nutso play to flat there without some kind of hand. So, whether you have a 9 or not isn't totally the point, it's just that if you shove, at least you can have air of some type, but if you're flatting the 3 bet, it's so unlikely that you don't have some made hand already.That's the whole thing with the higher stakes players, especially with history between one another is that it's like "well, he knows that i know that he knows....." and if you stop one step too early or go one too far, you lose. I mean, don't get me wrong, you played the hand great, but what other hands would you ever flat call taht 3 bet with? I'll be that there aren't many.

yeah, but what do i do with 44 to 77 here? from what i saw in one of his posts, he said he was shoving 88 for value on the turn against a hand like 66. so i am assuming that he completely misread my flat call simply because he wouldn't think I would make such an obvious flat call with a 9. see everything you are saying is correct for sure, just that he knows all this. so in a way, doing the obvious play is what got him to misplay my hand, since im supposed to be a "legit" player.