Jump to content

where did i go wrong in this hand?


Recommended Posts

Okay, I know I messed up - big time. But where exactly did I go wrong?I had J10s on the small blind, 8 person table. Blinds are 25/50 with everyone having about 5k in chips. It was the 7th hand of the game.Everyone just li mped in, except for 2 people who folded. I put the other 25 in to see the flop, the BB checked for a 6-way pot.Flop came up JJ9 rainbow. I had to act first and checked since my T kicker wasn't that great and I didn't know if anyone else had a J. Everyone else checked also. Turn comes up an 8 for an open ended straight draw and still 3 J's. Knowing everyone else folded last time I bet 200, about a pot sized bet. Everyone folded but one guy, he reraised me to 400. I thought maybe he had A9 or something and didn't want to bet first last time but since everyone checked the hand he had confidence this round. Or maybe when the 8 came up he had a straight draw or a flush draw and wanted to push me out of the pot since I checked last time. So I reraised him to 1200. At this point he went all in over the top of me (about 5K total) and I called for all my chips. I was kind of on tilt at this point but I thought maybe he was just being aggressive, he plays that way from time to time. He turned over QJ and the river was nothing and I lost the tourney in 20 minutes.I know I f**ked up, but where exactly did I start going wrong?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't go wrong here. You just took a semi bad beat, with trips to trips higher kicker. However, one thing that you must know is YOU NEVER SLOWPLAY FLOPPED TRIPS. Flopping trips is different than flopping a swt, and you never want to slowplay a hand like J10 with a JJ9 flop. Since you were first to act, you should have bet out a small pot sized bet to see where you are in the hand. If someone smooth calls, you might be able to put them on a 9 or a straight draw. If you are raised, you then have to consider the fact that someone might have a bigger J than you. If there was no preflop raise, I couldn't see a hand like AJ, but QJ or KJ is possible. Also, if you know the player that is making the raise, consider if he is tight or aggressive. If he's tight, you might be beat. If he is aggressive, I would consider a re-raise after his initial raise. It is very difficult to get off this hand, unless you really know who you are playing against.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should have just called his re-raise on the turn. As you mentioned, your kicker was not that good. He also could have made a straight with QT in his hand, or had pocket 8's for a boat. Too many hands beat you at this point. I think if he was on a draw, he likely would have just called your bet.And when he came over the top of you the SECOND time, I think you knew it was an easy laydown, as you mentioned you were tilting.I would have called, then checked to him on the river and see what he does. If he fires a big bet, it's a laydown.Better luck next time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I had about a 30 minute ride home to fume over the loss and I figured it was:1. Not betting after the flop to see where he stands.2. Reraising to 1200 after he reraised to 400

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well.The only thing I could see would be just to call the raise on the turn. But with the raise from 200 to 400 I might put him on a J weak kicker.Your reraise was a little strong, so when he came over the top he knew he was gonna get a call, now representing KJ or QJ.Beats like this happen. Just gotta be careful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes me feel better to know I was doomed from the start... but I'll stop slowplaying crap like this. I may win fewer big pots, but it'll prevent a crash like this one I think.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is sort of like the question I had when I played KJo from MP, and I hit trips off the flop, and lost to KQ. Basically everyone told me to fold such a garbage hand and stick to "Phil's top ten hands" (which I don't believe is the correct answer) or reraise to find out where you're at, and if he calls be careful - or if he pushes all in - fold.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a trap that I've made many, many times and the lession I've learned...a) everyone at the table can see the JJB) that means that hands worse than yours are very unlikely to give you action unlessc) they think you're weak, and think you're bluffing, and are re bluffing.. any two pair hand is going to be too afraid of the JJ, unless they are a moron with AA or something or D) Have you beat so here's the point.. when you were orginally raised, you should have imediatly shut down.. it would be alot different if you had, say, AJ, because then you could slaughter other J's, and you'd proably just have to pay off a full house.. but with a ten kicker, you're in deep trouble ( as you just saw) It's very likely that the person who's raising you has a better kicker, or is bluffing.. so your re raise was really terrible, though it's terror is counter intuitive.. If the guy is bluffing, you want him to continue to bluff.. if he has you beat, you want to lose the absolute miniumum.. you needn't have gone broke on this hand.. with his 400 raise on the turn.. he'd proably have bet 800-1200 on the river, and you'd have called that, and still lost, but you wouldn't have been busted...when you get raised, and you have board trips, it's time to shut down, unless you have an EXCELLENT read on your opponent ( IE from their pre flop action have an over pair. The reason for this is, everyone can see them, and will be afraid of them... unless they like them too

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to bet that flop. Just checking gives you absolutely no information and allows people to see a free card. What if someone limped in with QT? Granted, it's not a good hand, but people limp in all the time. Now you're letting anyone with a draw see a free card that can beat you. Also, I would have just called the turn raise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i like to lead out and bet that flop it does two things for me, a) most people slow play a jack there hoping some one else bets and by me betting looks like i have a nine and want to win the pot there, then if i get a flat call or a reaise and my kicker is in rough shape or somewhat suspect well that is where you have to put a read on your opponent and if you think he has it well you can give it up and if not well you lost that pot and have to learn from it. other thing it does it prevent you from giving Q 10 a free look at the turn and possiblity of making a str8 against a hand that will be hard to fold casue your going to have trips and a draw. win pots when you can especasially early on in touraments show everyone that when you bet you got it

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie

You shoulda raised to a total of 1600-2000 after he raised and folded to the allinI know you had outs regardless what he had, but you were for sure not in the lead

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie
This is sort of like the question I had when I played KJo from MP, and I hit trips off the flop, and lost to KQ. Basically everyone told me to fold such a garbage hand and stick to "Phil's top ten hands" (which I don't believe is the correct answer) or reraise to find out where you're at, and if he calls be careful - or if he pushes all in - fold.
....yeah, stick to only 10 hands....that wont make you a book
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not really following your logic here, you didn't bet because of your kicker on the flop when only 99, JQ, JK and JA were beating you. But you're willing to go all in on the turn when all kinds of straights become possible plus the hands you were already losing to. When he keeps reraising you have to figure your beat or the guy's a moron.Next time bet the flop to see where you are, and fold to a huge reraise, its too early in the tourney.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You shoulda raised to a total of 1600-2000 after he raised and folded to the allinI know you had outs regardless what he had, but you were for sure not in the lead
If he's bluffing, you want him to continue, it will proably cost you less on the river if you just call.. no hand that you can beat will call your 2000, plus, then you're faced with betting or checking on the river, and are pretty much pot committed anyway if he bets you all in.. WRONG WRONG and Wrong... but I expect these kind of errors from a Krablar hater.. ( kidding!)It's sad that two people who love family guy can't share a love of Krablar..
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but he just checked the flop too so I figured he didn't have much either. I didn't think he was slowplaying because he was aggressive. After he reraised my 1200 bet my thinking is mostly a blur. I was on serious tilt and called without thinking about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was kind of on tilt at this point but I thought maybe he was just being aggressive.
You're seven hands into a tourney and appear to have a full stack. Why are you on tilt?
Yeah, seriously.. if you go on tilt that easy, you need to work on your head game.. your head game is ultimatly the most important part of your game, so treat it with respect!You're gonna cost yourself alot of money if you tilt that easy!!
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was figuring his 400 reraise was just being cute so I raised to 1200 figuring he'd fold. Then he went all in and my mind blurred. I don't know. You've never gone on tilt halfway through a hand? You limp in with 25 more on small blind and then you're faced with losing 1500 or calling all-in?I say tilt because I took my initial game plan and my read of the player to the end of the hand without reevaluating what was happening and what cards he might have. I figured he was bluffing and when he made bets that indicated he was holding a strong hand I didn't stop and reanalyze my read, I plodded on stupidly. He checked on the flop (like me) and I figured he didn't have a J and never rethought my situation out.Regardless, I misplayed the hand even before I lost my mind. Tonight when I play and If I flop something great I'll be making a decent sized bet in order to thin the field.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was figuring his 400 reraise was just being cute so I raised to 1200 figuring he'd fold.  .
If he's " just being cute" why would you want him to stop being cute? If he's bluffing, you want him to KEEP BLUFFING on the river, if he has you beat, YOU WANT TO LOSE THE MINIUM.. his bet on the river would have proably been less than your raise on the turn, and you would have not been out of the tourniment.. I know, I know, all the convential wisdom says that you should raise or fold.. but that's not true if you're against an aggressive, fruequent bluffing player.. if he's a bluffer, all your raise will do is get him to lay down his hand, which is a disaster.. you want him to bet again on the river, if he's bluffing!! don't scare off bluffers... but, again, if he has you beat, you don't need to get busted out of a tourniment getting crazy with your ten kicker.. again, with a pair on the board, raises either mean extreme stregth, or bluff, either situation is NOT one you should be re raising in..
Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless he's "being cute" with a flush draw or a straight draw or pocket pair or someting that can draw better. I wanted to win it with the 1200 because I figured he must have SOME draw that could beat 3 of a kind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

that's not much of a draw to be worried about... and on the turn, neither is a flush or straight draw. I think giving him a chance to bluff is a much better play... it would be different if there was only one jack, and you had pocket jacks. then, your hand is suffieenetly disguised you can reasonably expect to be able to trap someone.. but re raising with the jj out there is just asking for trouble ( which you got) you don't really want to chace an pocket pair out you want them to bet again on the river.. Don't live in fear of letting long shots get there, yo ucan win much money on it..Also, I think it would be more likely to be raising on a draw if this scenerio happened on the flop... because the button could be making the free card play... but the turn, he obviously isn't..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I played again last night. Thanks for all the good advice. I took 5th for $60 (23 people $30 buyin). I didn't get many cards but by not being dumb and choosing my hands I was able to parlay my crap into 5th place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another important point with this hand is the fact that this is only the 7th hand of the tournament! At this stage in the tournament you should not be willing to risk all your chips on a hand like this. Call the raise to 400 and check call his value bet on the river. After you re-raised you should have folded to the all in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...