a few points about poker (and tuan/daniel)

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Hey jerk@ff ,i understand that his 8 and 9 might have been live too. But even thats still a gamble. MAAAAAAYBE TEN OUTS(i wouldnt even give him that) FOR 2 CARDS TO COME AND YOUR TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE? :naughty: What dont YOU get.

Nah, you still only have about half of it. So, no, you don't understand.

[basspoet 0]

Hey jerk@ff ,i understand that his 8 and 9 might have been live too. But even thats still a gamble. MAAAAAAYBE TEN OUTS(i wouldnt even give him that) FOR 2 CARDS TO COME AND YOUR TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE? :naughty: What dont YOU get.

I usually just lurk on here but I had to chime in here. He didn't move in with an inside straight draw. He moved in with 9 high. He wasn't thinking "if I get called hopefully I'll hit my inside straight." He was looking to pick up the pot right there assuming (incorrectly) that because so much money went in preflop his opponent is holding two cards above 10, hence hitting none of this flop.

[ghoti7four 0]

Remember when that delightful little tramp Ghostface wrote something along the lines of...

STFU NEWBIE

That reminded me of the time when the aforementioned charming little gutter scamp took approximately two pages of explanations to even begin to understand the rules of Omaha... anyone else remember this? Of course this was ages ago, in late March when Ghostface was a newbie... he's very wise and experienced now of course.

[justblaze 0]

HERES AN ARGUEMENT FOR THE "DEFENCE:" listen censored...i did do the math if you would read more carefullyfunny, i quoted your entire post and didnt see any math. i only saw speculation about the result of the math.-what word is spelled incorrectly-you want that alphabetically?AND making that ONE PLAY in a large tourney is blatant evidence!! I gave approximate chip counts in my post and did the math on his call. HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THAT and how do you justify that call with the 9's? HOW? If you had any type of poker knowledge, the answer is, you cant, you're gambling. And you not understanding any of that and trying to come off like you do makes you look like a genius. I didnt bother reading your other flame war. I dont care about the hand. One hand isnt evidence of anything. I haven't discussed the hand in question anywhere in this thread. Perhaps you should check your notes or something. and if you had any MODICUM of poker knowledge you would understand that the hand with 9s is what propelled tuan in a position to make the final table, if he would of lost, he would of more than likely lost the remaining chips he had by his overly aggressive play in that particular field.I haven't discussed the hand in question at all. I didnt even follow the tournament. I am merely taking issue with your baseless statements about the play of a notable professional. I dont care about the hand. oh and by the way, " defense" is spelled with an "s" if you didnt catch the joke at the beginning of the post. censored you.[/i]by the way, 'defence' is an acceptable spelling in Britain, Canada, and most other former or current British colonies.

[MDXS 0]

That reminded me of the time when the aforementioned charming little gutter scamp took approximately two pages of explanations to even begin to understand the rules of Omaha... anyone else remember this? Of course this was ages ago, in late March when Ghostface was a newbie... he's very wise and experienced now of course.

Haha...that was classic.

[rogermarks 0]

Maxfield should NOT have checked that flop.With two hearts on the board, Le knows an overpair should not be checking. Therefore, knowing his opponent is VERY GOOD AT POKER, he decides that he's not up against a hand and pushes at the pot. Le had no reason to think he was walking into a 4-out situation, but instead probably believed he had a minimum of 7 and possibly 10 outs. (two nines, two eights, three sevens; three nines, three eights, four sevens).I'm going to change the situation up a bit here.Say Tuan Le has 22 and Maxfield still has his 56.flop is still 5-6-3Maxfield checks his top two pair and Le checks behind him. Now that free 4 loses Maxfield the pot. OR maybe Le has 9h8h and the flop still comes 5-6-3 with two hearts. Maxfield checks his top two pair, Le checks behind him and a heart falls. Now is everyone going to be angry at Le for taking his free heart? Of course not.Maxfield should not have checked and, in fact, his bad post-flop play here negates the "luck" factor in my opinion.

[ChkDeezNuts 0]

Pushing allin with a gut shot is a brilliant play........Seeing of course that if you get called...you are likely slaughtered........WHAT GENIUS THINKS THAT THIS WAS A GOOD PLAY?Tuan Le blows......PERIOD.Like I have said before.....this is not only my opinion....it happens to be the opinion of alot of pros.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

"That reminded me of the time when the aforementioned charming little gutter scamp took approximately two pages of explanations to even begin to understand the rules of Omaha... anyone else remember this? Of course this was ages ago, in late March when Ghostface was a newbie... he's very wise and experienced now of course."1. THAT WAS OMAHA.........A GAME A REALLY DIDNT KNOW COMPLETELY, WHICH SHOWED CUZ I MADE AN ASS OUT OF MYSELF2. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A GAME IVE BEEN PLAYIN FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS AND WOULD GLADLY PLAY YOU FOR SOME OF YOUR LOOT. IM SURE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF IT CONSIDERING IM JUST A "GUTTER SCAMP" ,whatever the f@ck that means,3. I AM NEW TO THE FORUM, NOT NEW TO POKER. IM NOT ONE OF THESE GUYS THAT SAW THE WSOP LAST YEAR OR SAW MONEYMAKER WIN IT AND DECIDED THAT AFTER A COUPLE CELEBRITY POKER PROGRAMS "HEY GEE I CAN DO THAT TOO"ANTE UP D0UCHE CLOWN

[ghoti7four 0]

IM A GONNA GET IT TO YA IF YOU DONT BE NOW GONNA DIE DUMBER DUM STOOP MOTHER TWaAtI enjoyed the last post you "misunderstood" just as much as this one you wonderful little fiery tumbletoes.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I disagree, Maxfield had to know that Le was gonna take a huge stab at that pot considering the 2 million dollar preflop raise, If you read the hand by hand blog, Le was juicing alot of pots.

[rogermarks 0]

Wow, you're right.I heard Tuan Le explain this move in an interview once. He called it something...god if only I could remember.It was this new theory he was working on, I think it was called "duffing"or maybe it was "sluffing."Well I can't remember but I guess he's one of the first dudes to try it in the poker world. I wonder if it will catch on.There was no hand that Le could put Maxfield on that would flat-call a 2 million dollar raise preflop only to check that flop, except two big hearts or worse. He wasn't value betting his gut shot, he was putting a bet in there based on the outstanding fold equity he had with the flop and Maxfield's check. I don't care if Tuan Le never plays poker again, or if he lives or dies for that matter. All I'm saying is the check was a bad move, and the all-in was the logical follow up based on common poker "stra-te-gy."

[Knail 0]

justblaze, reread everything you said, you are a fuking moron.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IM A GONNA GET IT TO YA IF YOU DONT BE NOW GONNA DIE DUMBER DUM STOOP MOTHER TWaAt I enjoyed the last post you "misunderstood" just as much as this one you wonderful little fiery tumbletoes. HAHAHAHAHAHAYour a clown buddy

[ghoti7four 0]

sorry to everyone else if I get a little flametastic from time to time, you know how it can be tempting. and also whether you agree or not with what he says you have to appreciate how he does it so-- good post aseem I always like reading what you have to say.

[ghoti7four 0]

well refuted sir it certainly stings to be called as such by a person of your obvious caliber... also I have to go home so we'll have to start back up tommorow until then you can PM me your nonsensical threats and what not... or I suggest starting your very own thread in the morning--that would be such fun. Peace idiot.

[Runin 0]

Damn, there are a few people on here who need to calm down a little. Why the big axe to grind with Tuan? You may think he sucks, fine that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, there is no need to attack people on the forum and just be a di.ck in general. Most people are trying to have a civilized conversation and a select few are just being idiots. I know you will attack me for saying that but whatever. I actually asked Daniel on another thread what he thought about Tuan. You might find his response interesting.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=10863I personally think he's a good player with the potential to be a great player, but again that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are one or two of you who will tell me I'm an idiot for thinking that and that's fine. In pre-response, I think there are a few of you (especially those who type in all caps) that probably need very desperately to get laid....

[highstackpoker 0]

look newb...here's the thing....unless you in particular were AT that table with Tuan le, you can't say a thing about it...there are MANY situations where a "real" pro (and what the hell does that mean anyways, as opposed to a fake one?) would call with what he did...he could have easily read the first guy to go all in with low pocket pair trying to make a move as a short stack, and he probably knew the other guy knew so he went all in to try to isolate, which could very easily indicate AK AQ...that said, if his read was correct, he was roughly 45% to win the hand, and he was getting sufficient pot odds...a gamble nonetheless...but justifiedTo sit there on your parents PC and criticize a professional poker player who has won 2 big titles and over 4 million in prize money, while you yourself probably hasn't even won 400, just completely displays your ignorance regarding the topic. This just goes to show why poker is such a profitable game for serious players; there are so many people out there that think they're good and know exactly what they're doing, when in reality they have no idea whats going on around them.btw, great post aseem

[faketree 0]

i'm sorry, but just because someone plays a hyper-aggressive style and gets lucky a lot doesn't not mean they suck.tuan is trying to win the tournament. he doesn't want to finish 20th or 9th or 56th. he wants first. playing the way he does creates its own luck. its as simple as that. there is complex math behind the obvious game theory he is applying but the simple explanation is that his style creates its own luck.he is a good player with a brilliant teacher. to say that he sucks based on one TV performance and one internet update is being pretty ridiculous.

[bobbytheo3 0]

Wow, you're right.I heard Tuan Le explain this move in an interview once. He called it something...god if only I could remember.It was this new theory he was working on, I think it was called "duffing"or maybe it was "sluffing."Well I can't remember but I guess he's one of the first dudes to try it in the poker world. I wonder if it will catch on.There was no hand that Le could put Maxfield on that would flat-call a 2 million dollar raise preflop only to check that flop, except two big hearts or worse. He wasn't value betting his gut shot, he was putting a bet in there based on the outstanding fold equity he had with the flop and Maxfield's check. I don't care if Tuan Le never plays poker again, or if he lives or dies for that matter. All I'm saying is the check was a bad move, and the all-in was the logical follow up based on common poker "stra-te-gy."

If this was the case, then Maxfields check was actually a great play because he knew there was a good chance Tuan would go all in and he could make the call and double through him. In that stage of a tournament, unpredictability is huge and by Maxfield checking in a situatuin where you said "the check was a bad move", he feigned a lot of weakness and induced the all-in from Tuan. Im not sure if that was his mindset or not, but if it was, the check was actually very tricky and I would give Maxfield credit for it. As far as Tuan's all-in, he did get lucky on this particular hand, but I think that if he is a good reader, his aggresiveness will pay off more than it will hurt him in these shorthanded situations.

[yeffy 0]

Wow, you're right.I heard Tuan Le explain this move in an interview once. He called it something...god if only I could remember.It was this new theory he was working on, I think it was called "duffing"or maybe it was "sluffing."Well I can't remember but I guess he's one of the first dudes to try it in the poker world. I wonder if it will catch on.There was no hand that Le could put Maxfield on that would flat-call a 2 million dollar raise preflop only to check that flop, except two big hearts or worse. He wasn't value betting his gut shot, he was putting a bet in there based on the outstanding fold equity he had with the flop and Maxfield's check. I don't care if Tuan Le never plays poker again, or if he lives or dies for that matter. All I'm saying is the check was a bad move, and the all-in was the logical follow up based on common poker "stra-te-gy."

Thank You!!!If this hand went like oh maybe another 20 or 30 hands Tuan played in the event, he raises preflop, pushes on the flop, adds to his stack and moves on to the next hand...this discussion wouldn't exist. If on the broadcast the same scenario happened and we saw Maxfield fold AQ Tuan looks brilliant.He's not "pushing with a gutshot" as ChkDeezNuts said he's just pushing. His cards don't even really enter into the hand. Preflop raise, ragflop, all-in. You can't sit back and wait for the cards to come to you and expect to win tournaments. Sure he's a slider, but it's a viable strtegy that obviously works, just ask his accountant.

[justblaze 0]

justblaze, reread everything you said, you are a fuking moron.

so, you cant think of anything intelligent to say?

[SapphireTiger 0]

blah blah blah...my penis is bi gger than your penis blah blah blah.tuan le is not lucky, he's an effectively reckless and aggressive players. you newbies need to stop focusing on individual hands and look at his overall play, because in every huge tournament like that, you can argue that the winner got extremely lucky to continue on a specific hand.listen to the vets on and those that have took the time and effort to give out valuable information on this forum. they aren't spouting meaningless crap and know what they're talking about.

[Guest]

Great post aseem.There's something here that really bugs me, seems that alot of people on here think that only the forum *vets* know what their talking about.I see alot of threads where regular posters are telling the *newbs* to STFU.Just because someone didnt post 7000 times doesnt mean they dont know what their talking about IMO.Seems some people are just on here to *flame* anyone for any reason.I usually read most of the threads, dont post alot on them because I figgure I can learn alot more by looking at both sides of the *discussion* and deciding which play was better. just my 2 cents feel free to flame away :wink: Now about the hand, Le had to think that he was going to pick up the pot right there, it's called a *bluff* he got lucky but what player doesnt right?DN made a similar play and got called but didnt hit his str8 *he* didnt get lucky. thats pokerKurt went all in with the best hand and didnt get *lucky* he got sucked out on the river.Looking at all 3 hands all 3 players that lost the hands could of easily won all 3..Good or bad results, usally players make a move for 1 reason or another the end results are what counts. :-)

[Devilkin 0]

Nikki is quickly becoming my favourite poster :DNice posting BTW Aseem. Well thought out. Ignore the newb that flamed you - we all know you know what you are talking about . . .Dev

[augmented 0]

by the way, i dont think anyone has mentioned that the average stack at that point was 11 million and the blinds were 400k/800k with a 100k ante. thats about 12 and a half BETS, total. basically, if you dont win a hand you are screwed, if tuan doesnt win this hand he is down to what, 3 million? simply put, you must push in this situation if you have any hope that you have the best hand. what, is he supposed to fold instead and leave himself with like 3 bets?also, for everyone out there that says tuan le blows, shut up. you blow. i am sure that you have made similar thinking errors more than once in your life (if it even is an error). if i make one mistake, should i be pegged as a horrible player? yes? how about if i have been playing for a week non-stop and my mind is numbing? how about then?this is similar to everyone saying that david williams sucks for that one move he tried to pull against DN. no, he doesnt suck, you suck. and that is honestly my point.