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Do You Draw For A Straight On Unscary Paired Boards?


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Villain is on this table for about 3 orbits. The only "Read" that I have, is, that he isn't that Laggy. He only played a few hands so far. But when he played, he bet his hands strongly. My overall thinking about him was, that he is one of those many bad Everest-players at all. Not donkish, but below average.Stacks:Hero: $57.40Villain: $68.35Shortie: $8.206 players, Hero has :D :D on the ButtonPreflop:UTG folds, Vilain raises to $1.75, Co folds, Hero on Button calls, SB/Shortie calls, BB (Regular on NL50) callsPot: $7.00 (4 players)Flop: :):club::DShortie checks, BB checks, Villain bets $1.25, Hero calls, Shortie calls, BB folds. Pot: $10.75 (3 players)Turn: :DShortie checks, Villain checks, Hero bets $10.75, Shortie calls $5.20 All-In, Villain raises to $48.20, Hero ?I know that you shouldn't post results. And I don't. But I want you to know, that this no Bad-Beat-Post, cos I won. It's all about the question, whether you draw for the str8 on this flop AND if you hit, do you go with it???Comments on all streets welcome.

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I'm more likely to draw to a str8 when there's a pair on board than when there's a flush draw.Also I'm more likely to draw to a str8 at 6 max on a board like this. Not sure if either of those are good habits though.When villain crai on the turn I don't love my hand anymore. I think you're usually beat at this point. Really the only thing I can put villain on at this point is 99. I think he wouldn't give up the lead if he had an overpair or an 8. The fact that short stack is all in means it's not a full out bluff with AK or something. I haven't completely worked the math but it looks like you need to put in 43 more getting around 1.5:1. I think the turn is a fold and curse yourself for drawing to a str8 on a paired board and then throw something when villain turns over a hand you beat.

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Yep!The only hands I was worried about, was 55 or 99. Since I couldn't see him, making a FH with 89 or 85. Although 89 could open raise, but I didn't put im on that, because so far he hadn't played so many hands. Of course I could be totally wrong. His line so far really indicated real strength, esp. the CR on the turn. But on the flop, I thought, that I would love my hand if a draw a 4 or a 9, since FH's are so unlikely then. And then you get it, but get action...Well you wanted action, but do you wanted really????? I am so confuded.

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Villain is on this table for about 3 orbits. The only "Read" that I have, is, that he isn't that Laggy. He only played a few hands so far. But when he played, he bet his hands strongly. My overall thinking about him was, that he is one of those many bad Everest-players at all. Not donkish, but below average.Stacks:Hero: $57.40Villain: $68.35Shortie: $8.206 players, Hero has :D :D on the ButtonPreflop:UTG folds, Vilain raises to $1.75, Co folds, Hero on Button calls, SB/Shortie calls, BB (Regular on NL50) callsPot: $7.00 (4 players)Flop: :):club::DShortie checks, BB checks, Villain bets $1.25, Hero calls, Shortie calls, BB folds. Pot: $10.75 (3 players)Turn: :DShortie checks, Villain checks, Hero bets $10.75, Shortie calls $5.20 All-In, Villain raises to $48.20, Hero ?I know that you shouldn't post results. And I don't. But I want you to know, that this no Bad-Beat-Post, cos I won. It's all about the question, whether you draw for the str8 on this flop AND if you hit, do you go with it???Comments on all streets welcome.
I don't draw under heavy fire on paired FLOPS, unless I flopped OESFD. I get cautious if the TURN pairs the board, but it bothers me less than paired flops. I don't worry so much about river paired boards, unless I am getting called down on a connected board and the villain suddenly wakes up when the board pairs. IOW, I navigate draws on paired boards by feel. I get hung by stupid ass slowplayers sometimes, but they usually wonder why I have all their chips at the end of the night. I must be "lucky."
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I don't draw under heavy fire on paired FLOPS, unless I flopped OESFD. If get cautious if the TURN pairs the board, but it bothers me less than paired flops. I don't worry so much about river paired boards, unless I am getting called down on a connected board and the villain suddenly wakes up when the board pairs. IOW, I navigate draws on paired boards by feel. I get hung by stupid ass slowplayers sometimes, but they usually wonder why I have all their chips at the end of the night. I must be "lucky."
You must be lucky - Mr. Jamie Gold.
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passively drawing on paired boards is usually a bad idea. Sometimes you're drawing dead. You're implied odds are reduced dramatically because of the transparent danger card, etc.What I do think is correct is to play these hands particularly aggressive or tricky aggressive against preflop raisers because it gives them a clear picture of what you're trying to rep. JJ is going to fold on a board of 885 more often than 10 7 5. Same ballpark, but one is just more dangerous.

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You must be lucky - Mr. Jamie Gold.
LOL, but you get my point, right? Some draws are worth a ton, some are worthless, some are in between. It's literally NEVER the same. If 10 is pure gold, and 0 is totally worthless, I would put this particular hero's draw around a 2.5 or a 3
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I don't draw under heavy fire on paired FLOPS, unless I flopped OESFD. I get cautious if the TURN pairs the board, but it bothers me less than paired flops. I don't worry so much about river paired boards, unless I am getting called down on a connected board and the villain suddenly wakes up when the board pairs. IOW, I navigate draws on paired boards by feel. I get hung by stupid ass slowplayers sometimes, but they usually wonder why I have all their chips at the end of the night. I must be "lucky."
But to Bet 1.25 into a $7.00 pot isnt't really heavy fire is it?So would you have called the flop bet?
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Yes. But calling the all in is very shaky. We need a rationale for doing it.
Couldn't this be A8?Or in another way:If you think on the flop, that the straight will unlikely fill him up, do you go with your feeling. I mean I drew for the 4/9 and got it.
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Open raising with 98s isn't exactly a rare occurrence. And the weak flop lead could easily be trips. I certainly don't rule out 98 here at all.
Isnt there some where out there somoene saying: This 6-max, you have a str8 just put your chips in the middle...Just kidding.
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It's all about the question, whether you draw for the str8 on this flop AND if you hit, do you go with it???
before i read any further i will only say this: if you're going to draw for it, you DAMN WELL BETTER PLAY IT WHEN YOU GET THERE...otherwise you shouldn't have been drawing for it in the first place... that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life... call because you're on a straight draw, make your straight, & then check/fold... wtf? i hope to know where ALL of those players are located... i'll never work again & only play twice a week...*EDIT* this is a sick spot.. & i'm not discounting a boat but i'm likely still calling... like i said above, why draw for it if you're going to fold it when you get there... villain could easily have 8 9 or 8 5, but you still called the flop... once you've made your hand, i dont see how you can fold... unless you have some crazy "I KNOW HE HAS A BOAT" read, then i'm calling this IMO...
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Why bet so much on the turn? Villian made a really weak flop bet then checked the turn. Do you really expect him to call a pot sized bet very often here? I'd bet around $6-7 so he can call with hands we're beating.

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before i read any further i will only say this: if you're going to draw for it, you DAMN WELL BETTER PLAY IT WHEN YOU GET THERE...otherwise you shouldn't have been drawing for it in the first place... that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life... call because you're on a straight draw, make your straight, & then check/fold... wtf? i hope to know where ALL of those players are located... i'll never work again & only play twice a week...*EDIT* this is a sick spot.. & i'm not discounting a boat but i'm likely still calling... like i said above, why draw for it if you're going to fold it when you get there... villain could easily have 8 9 or 8 5, but you still called the flop... once you've made your hand, i dont see how you can fold... unless you have some crazy "I KNOW HE HAS A BOAT" read, then i'm calling this IMO...
That was my point or better my question.I decided to call on the flop, thinking the 4 or 9 will not boat him, and then I went with my decision on the turn. But somehow I felt like a donk to raise All-In with this CR on the turn with a paired board. But hey I am playing on Everest-Poker...this was the point at all. He got T8 and I stacked him.To close it: Go with your first instinct, esp. on Everest-Poker :-)
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LOL, but you get my point, right? Some draws are worth a ton, some are worthless, some are in between. It's literally NEVER the same. If 10 is pure gold, and 0 is totally worthless, I would put this particular hero's draw around a 2.5 or a 3
No I understand - living in fear of full houses or better all the time is retarded. It's like living in fear of terrorists in Iowa.
Yes. But calling the all in is very shaky. We need a rationale for doing it.
Very true. I think I'd be folding a lot. It is very dangerous to say, "Hey I was drawing at a straight, and made it, I'm going with it." You have to make your decisions based on the action around you and reads rather than just the fact that you got there. Making up your mind in advance can be incredibly costly.
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No I understand - living in fear of full houses or better all the time is retarded. It's like living in fear of terrorists in Iowa.Very true. I think I'd be folding a lot. It is very dangerous to say, "Hey I was drawing at a straight, and made it, I'm going with it." You have to make your decisions based on the action around you and reads rather than just the fact that you got there. Making up your mind in advance can be incredibly costly.
Thanks a lot for your input NoBBiR. As I said, my thought process went like this:1) I made my flop call based on my gutinstinct, that a 4 or a 9 will not boat him.2) My decision was to commit when I hit3) I am playing on Everest Poker vs FRENCHBut the discussion helped me a lot. I think in the same situation in the future, I will probably fold. Especially if it's NL100 or higher and esp. if it's not Everest-Poker.
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No I understand - living in fear of full houses or better all the time is retarded. It's like living in fear of terrorists in Iowa.Very true. I think I'd be folding a lot. It is very dangerous to say, "Hey I was drawing at a straight, and made it, I'm going with it." You have to make your decisions based on the action around you and reads rather than just the fact that you got there. Making up your mind in advance can be incredibly costly.
i totally understand your point here, & i am aware i do have a little problem w/ speaking in absolutes...i'm just saying depending on the action, i'm not even calling on this flop... lately i've been dumping OESD pretty easily... 2 flush hits flop w/ my open ended, depending on what my reads are, i'm likely not drawing for it (it sux to make nut straight as flush completes, then be drawing dead & get stacked by the guy w/ the 5 high) that's probably a little weak tight of me, but like i said, if i make my straight after paying to draw for it, under MOST circumstances i'm not folding... i think this could be an 8 who's trying to TID right here often enough that i'm going to pay for it... yes he could have boated w/ 89s, but that, i believe, is a decision the hero must come to on the flop... i think it's SOOOOOOOOO SPEWISH to just pay money for a draw even tho the boards paired, make your draw, & then fold in fear of a boat... i mean, that doesn't justify the call on the flop... cause unless your straight card boated him up, you don't put him on a FH.. you obv didn't on the flop because why would you call w/ a draw if you think he has a boat? hence why are you going to fold when he could have A 8? if you put him on a boat on teh flop you shouldn't have called his raise... & then it's basically just between do you think he hit the turn as you did? & @ that point, i think hero has to make this decision on teh flop... could he have 89? yes, btu he could also have T8, A 8, J8 78 68.. sure he could be there w/ 85 or 55 or even 88 already, but if you're in fear of these hands, i dont think you should draw to a straight... maybe my logic's off...ALSO!!!ok, i didn't realize in OP how much villain bet on flop... 1.25? after making it 1.75 PF & getting like 4 callers?i'm calling w/ the OESD... i'm probably betting a lil less than the pot on turn, & depending on how big his bet i'm likely folding to be completely honest... idk wtf that means.... obv he's an idiot who thinks trips w/ no kicker are the nuts every time no matter what...if he shoves on top of my $7 turn bet, i'm probably folding absent a read...
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It seems like you guys already figured this hand out...but reading it I kind of got a question myself.I only like the call on the flop because of how small the bet was. I would have folded had it been a $5 bet.On the turn though, you made your straight and you thought that would make you good on the flop. The 9 hit and he got it in...doesn't that mean the only hands you're now more afraid of are 89 and 99?I don't even think 99 is really probable here either because you said he "plays his hands very strongly". He made such a weak bet on the flop; that shows strength to me. Such a low over pair on a paired board, i feel like he'd bet more than he did.But if you're going to put in 99, you're already saying that he's playing a bit out of character to your read. Then you should have to put in 87, A8, and even T8 in a 3 handed game. You might even want to put in an AA or a KK, maybe just 1 of them to make your range more accurate because he's not going to have them very often. I still think it might be a good idea to put it in there, just in case he is overplaying them, being that you already said he plays his hands quite strongly.But say we have AA, A8, 99, T8, 89 and 87 in his range. Then it should be a definite call. My range might be off, but that's just what I thought when I read the hand.Let me know what you guys think.Edit- I didn't see the last post so mine was pretty much repeating what he said, but yeah...He even included 68, and J8 which I didn't even want to include just to keep it a bit tighter towards the read. This doesn't matter too much because you then have to include 85 and 55 (which i should have included earlier) it is basically the same question.

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