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Jacks Are A Monster Compared To The Crap U Play


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online, 1/2NL full ring. I hate Jacks in Fullring games! I never know anything with them. Hero 350villain 250 (decent player)donkey 150 (donkey is a lag donk)Hero is button with J,Jfolds to donkey who limps in MP. MP2 limp, villain raise to 10 in c/o Hero wants to re-pop here, but hero calls. (should hero re-pop? to 30?)folds to donkey who calls, MP2 foldsflop6,2,6donkey check, villain bet 25. Hero?? here is my thinking, I either raise, inflate the pot and face an expensive trip vs QQ- AA, or i get AK/AQ to fold?or do people lean to calling / re-evaluate on the turn?i also have donkey in the hand who god knows what he ever has

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I agree, you absolutely have to re-pop pre flop. When you don't re-pop here, you give away all control of the hand.Now that you haven't re-raised pre flop, I think you absolutely have to raise this flop bet. I don't like just calling down here, especially if you're truly concerned that you're against QQ, KK, or AA. If you raise here and get either smooth called or re raised, that would definitely strengthen your feel of Villain's range, and also gives you a chance to get away from the hand on the turn.If you are truly against QQ, KK, or AA, and decide to call down, you'll be faced with stacking off Villain on the river. Plus, just calling the flop also allows Villain to spike an over card on the turn if they are holding AK or AQ, and if that happens, you just went from playing this hand badly to playing it horribly.

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Re-pop preflop and this flop plays itself, IMO. Edited the rest. I misread the action.
Agreed. As played, if villain is cbetting anything here, i repop to about 70 and try and push villain out of this hand. If you get shoved into, I guess its a question of what range villain would do this with. If its 88/99+ (or if you think villain might re-raise bluff you with overcards), its close, but I'd probably call. Flat calling with jacks really disguises your hand, so villain might be tempted to overplay his hand not putting you on something like JJ. The fact that the donkey is also in this hand probably reinforces raising the flop.
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Flat calling with jacks really disguises your hand, so villain might be tempted to overplay his hand not putting you on something like JJ. The fact that the donkey is also in this hand probably reinforces raising the flop.
I don't agree with this. People passively flat call pf with JJ all the time. If RT raises here he is either on a steal or has something like 77-JJ. I don't think his hand is disguised at all, he's either ahead or he isn't. I don't think he's getting a worse hand to call his raise unless it's 99-1010. Jacks suck, you are going to have to find out where you are at some point, I prefer taking the lead preflop and if villain flat calls the reraise with QQ-AA and the board comes like this well, I'll probably stack off or lose at least my flop bet. (Which in turn would be a decent amount of his stack).
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is FR 200 online full of nits? just wondering? I haven't played it in over a year but remember I never saw any action except for on the Boss Network.Because jacks are so hard to play, I like to re pop to define my hand agains the villian. I'm usually not a fan of trying to define your hand, but Jacks is one of those excrutiatingly difficult hands to play that I think it's the best route.

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Raise light here. The neighborhood of 65 sounds about right. If the donkey has a random six the donkey has a random six. Don't sweat it.I also like the flat call with jacks from the button. It's not a strong hand quite yet, but definitely flop worthy. And since you're in position on a late position raise, you're in a good spot to outplay him past preflop.

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Raise light here. The neighborhood of 65 sounds about right. If the donkey has a random six the donkey has a random six. Don't sweat it.I also like the flat call with jacks from the button. It's not a strong hand quite yet, but definitely flop worthy. And since you're in position on a late position raise, you're in a good spot to outplay him past preflop.
So raise/fold against the villian and raise/call against the donkey?
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I also like the flat call with jacks from the button. It's not a strong hand quite yet, but definitely flop worthy. And since you're in position on a late position raise, you're in a good spot to outplay him past preflop.
I think this hand needs to be reraised here like 100% of the time preflop. You're against a LP raiser who raised to 5BBs after a pair of limpers. If you raise JJ preflop, the hand plays itself as someone else stated.As much as I hate minraises here, this is the perfect spot for one. Assuming the board is a rainbow board, there aren't really any draws there. You're not gonna get reraised very often because he has to strongly consider that you've made trips. The other player will have a lot more pressure on him with 2 players involved and most importantly, you have position.Also, we don't get converted HHs from your online hands? :club::D
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online, 1/2NL full ring. I hate Jacks in Fullring games! I never know anything with them. Hero 350villain 250 (decent player)donkey 150 (donkey is a lag donk)Hero is button with J,Jfolds to donkey who limps in MP. MP2 limp, villain raise to 10 in c/o Hero wants to re-pop here, but hero calls. (should hero re-pop? to 30?)folds to donkey who calls, MP2 foldsflop6,2,6donkey check, villain bet 25. Hero?? here is my thinking, I either raise, inflate the pot and face an expensive trip vs QQ- AA, or i get AK/AQ to fold?or do people lean to calling / re-evaluate on the turn?i also have donkey in the hand who god knows what he ever has
I raise PF to $30. That will help us play the flop, if there is one.Since you DIDN'T, I raise the flop to $100. We can see what happens after that.
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It doesn't take much of a raise to spoil the pot odds for two overcards. He needs 7:1 to call for 6 outs. In fact, I think min raise does that. At any rate, I think raising to 75 is plenty if we're going to raise.

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And the reasoning behind this?
To do what we should have done PF -- tell unpaired overs we're ahead.
I would assume to fold to a push. Except we scratch our heads and wonder if he moved in on us with 77-1010 which sucks and is why we should be reraising preflop.
Exactly. But you're right, the only problem is that I don't know if an underpair figures it out. They SHOULD.
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It doesn't take much of a raise to spoil the pot odds for two overcards. He needs 7:1 to call for 6 outs. In fact, I min raise does that. At any rate, I think raising to 75 is plenty if we're going to raise.
You're probably right. I'm in live mode, where sending out a whole stack of reds is a message.
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To do what we should have done PF -- tell unpaired overs we're ahead.
Why bet so much if we think he has unpaired overs?Also, just becuase we didn't reraise preflop doesn't mean that we're trying to run him out of the hand now.
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Why bet so much if we think he has unpaired overs?Also, just becuase we didn't reraise preflop doesn't mean that we're trying to run him out of the hand now.
From RT's posts and how he phrased it in the OP I don't think he's looking to trap with JJ, he can correct me if I'm wrong. I think he's trying to win a small pot when he's ahead, try to hit a set, or just dump quietly if he's behind/it isn't clear he's ahead and not get into too much trouble.The problem I see with that, is it's very hard to see cheaply where you are in this hand. Which is why I think reraising PF is pretty important here.
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From RT's posts and how he phrased it in the OP I don't think he's looking to trap with JJ, he can correct me if I'm wrong. I think he's trying to win a small pot when he's ahead, try to hit a set, or just dump quietly if he's behind/it isn't clear he's ahead and not get into too much trouble.The problem I see with that, is it's very hard to see cheaply where you are in this hand. Which is why I think reraising PF is pretty important here.
I agree with all points you made.I was asking mtdesmoines the question because he said "raise to $100" on the flop which I think is a terrible bet for like 14 reasons. If he asks me to name all 14 reasons, I'm gonna say I was lying and that there are only 9 reasons and that I'll only name 4-7 of those nine reasons.
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From RT's posts and how he phrased it in the OP I don't think he's looking to trap with JJ, he can correct me if I'm wrong. I think he's trying to win a small pot when he's ahead, try to hit a set, or just dump quietly if he's behind/it isn't clear he's ahead and not get into too much trouble.The problem I see with that, is it's very hard to see cheaply where you are in this hand. Which is why I think reraising PF is pretty important here.
You. dont ever play in a cash game with me.Yes, i was multitabling for the 1st time in a while, and tskillz hit the nail on the head with this post. this was my 1st reaction when i jumped tables and saw the jacks after the raise.
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1. Why bet so much if we think he has unpaired overs?2. Also, just becuase we didn't reraise preflop doesn't mean that we're trying to run him out of the hand now.
1. Answer: because a QKA will come on what ... 85% ? .... of all complete boards. And we have two opponents in this hand. Why let this board mature? To me, we won already — just shut it down. Jacks just aren't a 'stacking' hand, they're a 'potting' hand. Anyway, if we believe that villain has unpaired overs and donkey has god-only-knows, which I do, and I think RT does as well, we need to make villain pay to draw to his pair, and the donkey, well, we just want to make him pay. Also, we need to take advantage of all the safe flops we see with jacks, because of the number of raised pots that end in folds when we play them. By betting hard (and later I stipulated that $75 accomplishes the same thing), we can assure ourselves that no one comes back over the top light. If the villain comes over the top, we can be pretty sure it's >TT and if it's not, we're setting him up for a kill shot in the next 90 minutes or so. If the donkey pushes and the villain folds, then we push too. People talk a lot about how to play jacks. I think it's easy to play them.2. As far as your second comment is concerned, I'm not sure I understand it yet. Sounds like we want a cheap call down ... why? That's what the villain wants with his unpaired overs. Why give it to him?
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I was asking mtdesmoines the question because he said "raise to $100" on the flop which I think is a terrible bet for like 14 reasons. If he asks me to name all 14 reasons, I'm gonna say I was lying and that there are only 9 reasons and that I'll only name 4-7 of those nine reasons.
1. We price out worse hands2. We commit ourselves to calling his shove3. He only shoves with better hands4. ...?Dammit Acid is between 11, 6, 4, 3, 2, or 1 reasons better than me at poker in this hand.
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Just out of curioisity RT how is it going? It should be much tougher than the live games, but I've never heard of the site you are playing on. You experiencing same success as you have been live?Why did you put a roll online anyway? You can direct me to a thread/post if you've answered these questions already.

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I agree with all points you made.I was asking mtdesmoines the question because he said "raise to $100" on the flop which I think is a terrible bet for like 14 reasons. If he asks me to name all 14 reasons, I'm gonna say I was lying and that there are only 9 reasons and that I'll only name 4-7 of those nine reasons.
Let's hear what you're willing to tell us, then.
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